Hello All,
There's 240 volts on the plate. The cathode is connected to the chassis. All paper and electrolytic capacitors have been replaced. There's 61 volts across the field coil. The other grid has 254 volts on it. It should "blast" but it doesn't. What's going on? The tuner works great too.

Thanks,

Dave

This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26

This is from the Philco Repair Bench. This may get you a bit more amplification from your 80.

http://www.philcorepairbench.com/tips/svctip43.htm

And This too.

http://www.philcorepairbench.com/tips/svctip44.htm

Warren,
I replaced the 4 Meg resistor with a 2 meg resistor and there's still no oomph from the amplifier. The tuner part is still blasting audio into the amplifier but so little comes out it's not funny. Could it be the 10 K ohm resistor that has become a 7.89 K ohm resistor powering the pre-amp? There's still 240 volts after the 10k ohm resistor. The schematic says that 40 volts should be there. But maybe they made a mistake on the schematic.
This is really weird. It should work but it doesn't. Adjusting the regen control doesn't make the "birdies" sounds, like it should. So there's a problem there too. I'll take a look at the cathode of the pre-amp and see if the tube's not conducting well. I do hear a weak hum when I touch the top pin but it should be way way louder. I'll find it.

Thanks,

Dave

:This is from the Philco Repair Bench. This may get you a bit more amplification from your 80.
:
:http://www.philcorepairbench.com/tips/svctip43.htm
:
:And This too.
:
:http://www.philcorepairbench.com/tips/svctip44.htm
:
:

Warren,
I replaced the 4 Meg resistor with a 2 meg resistor and there's still no oomph from the amplifier. The tuner part is still blasting audio into the amplifier but so little comes out it's not funny. Could it be the 10 K ohm resistor that has become a 7.89 K ohm resistor powering the pre-amp? There's still 240 volts after the 10k ohm resistor. The schematic says that 40 volts should be there. But maybe they made a mistake on the schematic.
This is really weird. It should work but it doesn't. Adjusting the regen control doesn't make the "birdies" sounds, like it should. So there's a problem there too. I'll take a look at the cathode of the pre-amp and see if the tube's not conducting well. I do hear a weak hum when I touch the top pin but it should be way way louder. I'll find it.

Thanks,

Dave

:This is from the Philco Repair Bench. This may get you a bit more amplification from your 80.
:
:http://www.philcorepairbench.com/tips/svctip43.htm
:
:And This too.
:
:http://www.philcorepairbench.com/tips/svctip44.htm
:
:

Warren,
I'll replace all of the ones you mention.

Thanks,

Dave
:This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
:

Warren,
I replaced 19, 20, 22, and 26 and the amplifier still has no oomph. Now what?
The hum when I touch the top pin should be way way way way way louder.
The amplifier has no oomph. The tuner is working perfectly.

Thanks,

Dave
:Warren,
: I'll replace all of the ones you mention.
:
:Thanks,
:
:Dave
::This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
::
:
:

Warren,
I replaced 19, 20, 22, and 26 and the amplifier still has no oomph. Now what?
The hum when I touch the top pin should be way way way way way louder.
The amplifier has no oomph. The tuner is working perfectly.

Thanks,

Dave
:Warren,
: I'll replace all of the ones you mention.
:
:Thanks,
:
:Dave
::This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
::
:
:

Dave

Do you have voltages similar to ones marked on the Rider schematic?

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/843/M0013843.pdf

This is only a 4 tube radio and depends on regeneration in the IF stage. Have you peaked adjustments?

Norm

:Warren,
: I replaced 19, 20, 22, and 26 and the amplifier still has no oomph. Now what?
: The hum when I touch the top pin should be way way way way way louder.
: The amplifier has no oomph. The tuner is working perfectly.
:
:Thanks,
:
:Dave
::Warren,
:: I'll replace all of the ones you mention.
::
::Thanks,
::
::Dave
:::This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
:::
::
::
:
:

Norm,
All voltages correspond correctly except the one on the 2nd 36. I get 245 volts instead of 45 volts. I replaced all the resistors and capacitors and the 10K ohm resistor has a very tiny voltage drop on it. I have checked all coils and none are open and everything is connected the way it should be and it's not much louder than a whisper. I have tried another speaker transformer. Nothing helps.

What would you like to know?

Thanks,

Dave
:Dave
:
: Do you have voltages similar to ones marked on the Rider schematic?
:
:http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/843/M0013843.pdf
:
: This is only a 4 tube radio and depends on regeneration in the IF stage. Have you peaked adjustments?
:
:Norm
:
::Warren,
:: I replaced 19, 20, 22, and 26 and the amplifier still has no oomph. Now what?
:: The hum when I touch the top pin should be way way way way way louder.
:: The amplifier has no oomph. The tuner is working perfectly.
::
::Thanks,
::
::Dave
:::Warren,
::: I'll replace all of the ones you mention.
:::
:::Thanks,
:::
:::Dave
::::This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
::::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

The plate voltage is way to high on the 36 tube. This would seem to indicate the tube is not working. The cathode being grounded would depend on resistor 36 a wire wound 325 ohm from the center tap of the power transformer. The same goes for the cathode of the output tube.

:The plate voltage is way to high on the 36 tube. This would seem to indicate the tube is not working. The cathode being grounded would depend on resistor 36 a wire wound 325 ohm from the center tap of the power transformer. The same goes for the cathode of the output tube.
:

Warren,
I have no Idea how that just happened. The message was from me, not you. Anyway, I checked voltages and connections and all connections are good. I'll check it again. The connection from the 2nd 36 to the chassis is being made by a rivet. My meter says .003 ohms. It's firmly connected to the chassis. I have tried other tubes from radios that blast and they refuse to work here.
Now on to the 42. There is a wire connecting it's cathode directly to the chassis. My meter says that it's .001 ohms. This is lower than the chassis rivet connection. I have had hum problems from bad rivet connections. I'll use my clip lead to get it better connected to the chassis. From the grid of the 42 through to the coil resistor and B- is 475 K ohms. I don't have a 490. Then onto the chassis it's 311 ohms. The tubes have to be on. What would make it not conduct?

Thanks,

Dave
::The plate voltage is way to high on the 36 tube. This would seem to indicate the tube is not working. The cathode being grounded would depend on resistor 36 a wire wound 325 ohm from the center tap of the power transformer. The same goes for the cathode of the output tube.
::
:
:

Warren,
The problem turned out to be a shorted brand new bypass capacitor. I replaced it and the radio blasts. There is now 45.8 volts on the second detector side of the 10K ohm resistor.
This "new" capacitor wasted my time. I'll complain to the place that sold it to me and check all the others of that type for more shorts.
With all new capacitors and resistors and "gimmick" capacitor, it sounds fantastic!

Thanks,

Dave
:Warren,
: I have no Idea how that just happened. The message was from me, not you. Anyway, I checked voltages and connections and all connections are good. I'll check it again. The connection from the 2nd 36 to the chassis is being made by a rivet. My meter says .003 ohms. It's firmly connected to the chassis. I have tried other tubes from radios that blast and they refuse to work here.
: Now on to the 42. There is a wire connecting it's cathode directly to the chassis. My meter says that it's .001 ohms. This is lower than the chassis rivet connection. I have had hum problems from bad rivet connections. I'll use my clip lead to get it better connected to the chassis. From the grid of the 42 through to the coil resistor and B- is 475 K ohms. I don't have a 490. Then onto the chassis it's 311 ohms. The tubes have to be on. What would make it not conduct?
:
:Thanks,
:
:Dave
:::The plate voltage is way to high on the 36 tube. This would seem to indicate the tube is not working. The cathode being grounded would depend on resistor 36 a wire wound 325 ohm from the center tap of the power transformer. The same goes for the cathode of the output tube.
:::
::
::
:
:

Dave,

You learned what most of the old timers learned a long time ago. Just because it is new doesn't mean it is good. I always check new caps before installing.

Clifton

:Warren,
: The problem turned out to be a shorted brand new bypass capacitor. I replaced it and the radio blasts. There is now 45.8 volts on the second detector side of the 10K ohm resistor.
: This "new" capacitor wasted my time. I'll complain to the place that sold it to me and check all the others of that type for more shorts.
: With all new capacitors and resistors and "gimmick" capacitor, it sounds fantastic!
:
:Thanks,
:
:Dave
::Warren,
:: I have no Idea how that just happened. The message was from me, not you. Anyway, I checked voltages and connections and all connections are good. I'll check it again. The connection from the 2nd 36 to the chassis is being made by a rivet. My meter says .003 ohms. It's firmly connected to the chassis. I have tried other tubes from radios that blast and they refuse to work here.
:: Now on to the 42. There is a wire connecting it's cathode directly to the chassis. My meter says that it's .001 ohms. This is lower than the chassis rivet connection. I have had hum problems from bad rivet connections. I'll use my clip lead to get it better connected to the chassis. From the grid of the 42 through to the coil resistor and B- is 475 K ohms. I don't have a 490. Then onto the chassis it's 311 ohms. The tubes have to be on. What would make it not conduct?
::
::Thanks,
::
::Dave
::::The plate voltage is way to high on the 36 tube. This would seem to indicate the tube is not working. The cathode being grounded would depend on resistor 36 a wire wound 325 ohm from the center tap of the power transformer. The same goes for the cathode of the output tube.
::::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

Warren,
I made the "gimmick" capacitor and checked all the resistors. Everything checks good and the amplifier still has no oomph. This is extremely frustrating.

Thanks,

Dave
:Warren,
: I replaced 19, 20, 22, and 26 and the amplifier still has no oomph. Now what?
: The hum when I touch the top pin should be way way way way way louder.
: The amplifier has no oomph. The tuner is working perfectly.
:
:Thanks,
:
:Dave
::Warren,
:: I'll replace all of the ones you mention.
::
::Thanks,
::
::Dave
:::This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
:::
::
::
:
:

Dave

Warren mentioned plate voltage is way too high. This could mean screen is too low so your 36 isn't drawing enough current. Be sure plate & screen resistors haven't drifted in value. Check screen bypass cap for leakage.

Be sure you have a 36 tube and not 39/44.

Norm

:Warren,
: I made the "gimmick" capacitor and checked all the resistors. Everything checks good and the amplifier still has no oomph. This is extremely frustrating.
:
:Thanks,
:
:Dave
::Warren,
:: I replaced 19, 20, 22, and 26 and the amplifier still has no oomph. Now what?
:: The hum when I touch the top pin should be way way way way way louder.
:: The amplifier has no oomph. The tuner is working perfectly.
::
::Thanks,
::
::Dave
:::Warren,
::: I'll replace all of the ones you mention.
:::
:::Thanks,
:::
:::Dave
::::This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
::::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

Norm,
A components are brand new. Where could this "leakage" come from?

Thanks,

Dave
:Dave
:
: Warren mentioned plate voltage is way too high. This could mean screen is too low so your 36 isn't drawing enough current. Be sure plate & screen resistors haven't drifted in value. Check screen bypass cap for leakage.
:
: Be sure you have a 36 tube and not 39/44.
:
:Norm
:
:
::Warren,
:: I made the "gimmick" capacitor and checked all the resistors. Everything checks good and the amplifier still has no oomph. This is extremely frustrating.
::
::Thanks,
::
::Dave
:::Warren,
::: I replaced 19, 20, 22, and 26 and the amplifier still has no oomph. Now what?
::: The hum when I touch the top pin should be way way way way way louder.
::: The amplifier has no oomph. The tuner is working perfectly.
:::
:::Thanks,
:::
:::Dave
::::Warren,
:::: I'll replace all of the ones you mention.
::::
::::Thanks,
::::
::::Dave
:::::This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
:::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

Dave

What are your plate & screen voltage? The plate is supplied through a couple resistors. So is the screen. When a tube draws current plate voltage will drop across the resistor.

Warren mentioned your plate voltage was way too high on 2nd detector tube.

A tube will not draw current if the screen voltage isn't positive. Also cathode and grid #1 have to be close in voltage. Both are connected or referenced to ground

Leakage can come from a screen bypass cap reducing voltage. Resistor off value can also give wrong voltages. Double check plate (240K) & screen (1 Meg) resistors. Try reversing 36 tubes.

Norm

:Norm,
: A components are brand new. Where could this "leakage" come from?
:
:Thanks,
:
:Dave
::Dave
::
:: Warren mentioned plate voltage is way too high. This could mean screen is too low so your 36 isn't drawing enough current. Be sure plate & screen resistors haven't drifted in value. Check screen bypass cap for leakage.
::
:: Be sure you have a 36 tube and not 39/44.
::
::Norm
::
::
:::Warren,
::: I made the "gimmick" capacitor and checked all the resistors. Everything checks good and the amplifier still has no oomph. This is extremely frustrating.
:::
:::Thanks,
:::
:::Dave
::::Warren,
:::: I replaced 19, 20, 22, and 26 and the amplifier still has no oomph. Now what?
:::: The hum when I touch the top pin should be way way way way way louder.
:::: The amplifier has no oomph. The tuner is working perfectly.
::::
::::Thanks,
::::
::::Dave
:::::Warren,
::::: I'll replace all of the ones you mention.
:::::
:::::Thanks,
:::::
:::::Dave
::::::This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

Norm,
You were absolutely correct! But I had a defective brand new yellow capacitor.
Warren was correct too. But you asked about capacitors. That was the problem.

Thanks Very Very Much,

Dave

:Dave
:
: What are your plate & screen voltage? The plate is supplied through a couple resistors. So is the screen. When a tube draws current plate voltage will drop across the resistor.
:
: Warren mentioned your plate voltage was way too high on 2nd detector tube.
:
: A tube will not draw current if the screen voltage isn't positive. Also cathode and grid #1 have to be close in voltage. Both are connected or referenced to ground
:
: Leakage can come from a screen bypass cap reducing voltage. Resistor off value can also give wrong voltages. Double check plate (240K) & screen (1 Meg) resistors. Try reversing 36 tubes.
:
:Norm
:
::Norm,
:: A components are brand new. Where could this "leakage" come from?
::
::Thanks,
::
::Dave
:::Dave
:::
::: Warren mentioned plate voltage is way too high. This could mean screen is too low so your 36 isn't drawing enough current. Be sure plate & screen resistors haven't drifted in value. Check screen bypass cap for leakage.
:::
::: Be sure you have a 36 tube and not 39/44.
:::
:::Norm
:::
:::
::::Warren,
:::: I made the "gimmick" capacitor and checked all the resistors. Everything checks good and the amplifier still has no oomph. This is extremely frustrating.
::::
::::Thanks,
::::
::::Dave
:::::Warren,
::::: I replaced 19, 20, 22, and 26 and the amplifier still has no oomph. Now what?
::::: The hum when I touch the top pin should be way way way way way louder.
::::: The amplifier has no oomph. The tuner is working perfectly.
:::::
:::::Thanks,
:::::
:::::Dave
::::::Warren,
:::::: I'll replace all of the ones you mention.
::::::
::::::Thanks,
::::::
::::::Dave
:::::::This radio depends on the signal strength for how loud it would play. Could use an alignment for maximum signal to the audio output stage. Check resistors 11-19-20-22-26
:::::::
::::::
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

There have been a few reports of those yellow capacitors being defective. It would be a good idea to check your entire inventory to avoid this in the future.

Dave

Good to hear you fixed the radio. Years ago I had problems with similar caps when a lead or other sharp object would poke the side. When it went through it would short the cap. Might look for a small hole on the side?

Norm

:There have been a few reports of those yellow capacitors being defective. It would be a good idea to check your entire inventory to avoid this in the future.
:

Norm,
This capacitor looks perfect. There's not even a scratch on it. It's absolutely brand new. This one slipped by QC at Illinois Capacitor company. The logo on the capacitor is "IC" in a circle. So I think It's Illinois capacitor. All the others like this, that I received recently, aren't shorted.

Dave
:Dave
:
: Good to hear you fixed the radio. Years ago I had problems with similar caps when a lead or other sharp object would poke the side. When it went through it would short the cap. Might look for a small hole on the side?
:
:Norm
:
::There have been a few reports of those yellow capacitors being defective. It would be a good idea to check your entire inventory to avoid this in the future.
::
:
:

:Norm,
: This capacitor looks perfect. There's not even a scratch on it. It's absolutely brand new. This one slipped by QC at Illinois Capacitor company. The logo on the capacitor is "IC" in a circle. So I think It's Illinois capacitor. All the others like this, that I received recently, aren't shorted.
:
:Dave
::Dave
::
:: Good to hear you fixed the radio. Years ago I had problems with similar caps when a lead or other sharp object would poke the side. When it went through it would short the cap. Might look for a small hole on the side?
::
::Norm
::
:::There have been a few reports of those yellow capacitors being defective. It would be a good idea to check your entire inventory to avoid this in the future.
:::
::
::
:
:
Sad state of affairs, years ago I wouldn't dream of testing current production capacitors, but I take a few minutes with my ancient Eico Bridge to put a few hundred volts on yellow or orange caps and see if the eye opens. I test electrolytics too, they take longer to get up to speed sometimes. Oh well.