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Philco Model 84 - Too much gain?
3/18/2012 11:57:26 AMLou
Gentlemen:

I have a Philco model 84 cathedral that is a wonderful performer. In fact it performs TOO well.
With the volume control turned all the way down I still get a sigificant amount of undistorted output.

Why do I get such great performance? In fact I only have a short wire antenna connected to it - the volume control does work but does not put the output down to zero ( or at least near zero).

Puzzled
Lou

3/18/2012 12:20:00 PMWarren
The volume control sounds to be defective. At the low end it should ground out the antenna input. Thus no signal means no sound.
3/18/2012 12:35:41 PMNorm Leal
Lou

Agree with Warren but you may have strong stations in your area? With strong stations this type of volume control isn't very effective. Stations may be picked up past the volume control.

Norm

:Gentlemen:
:
:I have a Philco model 84 cathedral that is a wonderful performer. In fact it performs TOO well.
:With the volume control turned all the way down I still get a sigificant amount of undistorted output.
:
:Why do I get such great performance? In fact I only have a short wire antenna connected to it - the volume control does work but does not put the output down to zero ( or at least near zero).
:
:Puzzled
:Lou
:

3/18/2012 1:25:28 PMcodefox
:Lou
:
: Agree with Warren but you may have strong stations in your area? With strong stations this type of volume control isn't very effective. Stations may be picked up past the volume control.
:
:Norm
:
::Gentlemen:
::
::I have a Philco model 84 cathedral that is a wonderful performer. In fact it performs TOO well.
::With the volume control turned all the way down I still get a sigificant amount of undistorted output.
::
::Why do I get such great performance? In fact I only have a short wire antenna connected to it - the volume control does work but does not put the output down to zero ( or at least near zero).
::
::Puzzled
::Lou
::
:
:
Agree, if you live next door to a tower or one of the tube shields is missing or the antenna transformer is faulty this can happen.
3/18/2012 8:03:02 PMLou
:Thanks all

I guess I am going to have a hard look at the schematic. The volume control DOES work, but the output of the radio is still very loud at the low end of the rotation. Could be the ground end of the control is not properly grounded - good suggestions.

PS: The stations I am receiving are not especially strong here. I am using the radio with a short ( a few feet ) antenna in my basement!!

:Lou
::
:: Agree with Warren but you may have strong stations in your area? With strong stations this type of volume control isn't very effective. Stations may be picked up past the volume control.
::
::Norm
::
:::Gentlemen:
:::
:::I have a Philco model 84 cathedral that is a wonderful performer. In fact it performs TOO well.
:::With the volume control turned all the way down I still get a sigificant amount of undistorted output.
:::
:::Why do I get such great performance? In fact I only have a short wire antenna connected to it - the volume control does work but does not put the output down to zero ( or at least near zero).
:::
:::Puzzled
:::Lou
:::
::
::
:Agree, if you live next door to a tower or one of the tube shields is missing or the antenna transformer is faulty this can happen.
:

3/18/2012 10:39:16 PMEdd










Sir Lou. . . . .


Try these analytical troubleshooting procedures:


Unpowered set . . . . .Drop the volume control to absolute minimum vol and ohmically measure between its center tap and its gound terminal to see repetively how low in ohms it can repeat.


Swing the vol rotor to max volume position and see if you are STILL getting a quite low ohms reading ?


If you are getting an ~20 K reading, the copper wire of the primary winding of the antenna coil has lost its insulation integrety and befallen "The Blue=Green Gloomphs Syndrome " and open circuited / wire at a point of erosive chemical attack.


IF SO . . .


And if this has happened, your original volume circuitry has altered, in the respect of it being a less effective parallel shunt of your antenna signal to ground by virtue of the loss of the ADDITIONAL ground path of that antenna coil primary.


Originally you would have been getting attenuation of BOTH the inductively coupled aspect of the signal and its capacitively coupled portion.


Now you are getting continually capacitively coupled signal input, but with minimal attenuation from the volume control throughout its range.


Lastly if that was not the case, to search further on, lift the high side of the volume control in order to be able to then read full volume control resistance, then drop the rotor to half way physical rotation and give us the resistance read there from ground terminal to center tap.p>


73's de Edd



I truly enjoy eating Swiss cheese, but to FULLY mess up my wife's mind, I only nibble on it, by making its holes bigger from the inside outwards..







::Thanks all
:
:I guess I am going to have a hard look at the schematic. The volume control DOES work, but the output of the radio is still very loud at the low end of the rotation. Could be the ground end of the control is not properly grounded - good suggestions.
:
:PS: The stations I am receiving are not especially strong here. I am using the radio with a short ( a few feet ) antenna in my basement!!
:
::Lou
:::
::: Agree with Warren but you may have strong stations in your area? With strong stations this type of volume control isn't very effective. Stations may be picked up past the volume control.
:::
:::Norm
:::
::::Gentlemen:
::::
::::I have a Philco model 84 cathedral that is a wonderful performer. In fact it performs TOO well.
::::With the volume control turned all the way down I still get a sigificant amount of undistorted output.
::::
::::Why do I get such great performance? In fact I only have a short wire antenna connected to it - the volume control does work but does not put the output down to zero ( or at least near zero).
::::
::::Puzzled
::::Lou
::::
:::
:::
::Agree, if you live next door to a tower or one of the tube shields is missing or the antenna transformer is faulty this can happen.
::
:
:

3/19/2012 12:50:13 AMLou
:Thanks Edd

I am still amazed however at the amount of gain I am getting , regardless of the volume control issue, from this set. Only three active tubes and the thing fills the room with sound,literally.

I have several sets of this type. These cathedrals, with a minimum amount of tubes were supposed to be the low end of Philcos line at the time. They appear to be the sets that sold the most units!! I think someone told me that some models with this simple circuit were only intended to be giveaways at radio dealers to attract patrons in to buy the bigger sets ( more costly - with more tubes).

Anyway, the circuit is a GREAT PERFORMER!

Lou
:
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Lou. . . . .
:
:
: Try these analytical troubleshooting procedures:
:
:
:Unpowered set . . . . .Drop the volume control to absolute minimum vol and ohmically measure between its center tap and its gound terminal to see repetively how low in ohms it can repeat.
:
:
:Swing the vol rotor to max volume position and see if you are STILL getting a quite low ohms reading ?
:
:
:If you are getting an ~20 K reading, the copper wire of the primary winding of the antenna coil has lost its insulation integrety and befallen "The Blue=Green Gloomphs Syndrome " and open circuited / wire at a point of erosive chemical attack.
:
:
:IF SO . . .
:
:
:And if this has happened, your original volume circuitry has altered, in the respect of it being a less effective parallel shunt of your antenna signal to ground by virtue of the loss of the ADDITIONAL ground path of that antenna coil primary.
:
:
:Originally you would have been getting attenuation of BOTH the inductively coupled aspect of the signal and its capacitively coupled portion.
:
:
:Now you are getting continually capacitively coupled signal input, but with minimal attenuation from the volume control throughout its range.
:
:
:Lastly if that was not the case, to search further on, lift the high side of the volume control in order to be able to then read full volume control resistance, then drop the rotor to half way physical rotation and give us the resistance read there from ground terminal to center tap.p>
:
:
:
:73's de Edd

:
:
:
:
: I truly enjoy eating Swiss cheese, but to FULLY mess up my wife's mind, I only nibble on it, by making its holes bigger from the inside outwards..
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:::Thanks all
::
::I guess I am going to have a hard look at the schematic. The volume control DOES work, but the output of the radio is still very loud at the low end of the rotation. Could be the ground end of the control is not properly grounded - good suggestions.
::
::PS: The stations I am receiving are not especially strong here. I am using the radio with a short ( a few feet ) antenna in my basement!!
::
:::Lou
::::
:::: Agree with Warren but you may have strong stations in your area? With strong stations this type of volume control isn't very effective. Stations may be picked up past the volume control.
::::
::::Norm
::::
:::::Gentlemen:
:::::
:::::I have a Philco model 84 cathedral that is a wonderful performer. In fact it performs TOO well.
:::::With the volume control turned all the way down I still get a sigificant amount of undistorted output.
:::::
:::::Why do I get such great performance? In fact I only have a short wire antenna connected to it - the volume control does work but does not put the output down to zero ( or at least near zero).
:::::
:::::Puzzled
:::::Lou
:::::
::::
::::
:::Agree, if you live next door to a tower or one of the tube shields is missing or the antenna transformer is faulty this can happen.
:::
::
::
:
:



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