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Equality of diodes
1/21/2012 6:47:39 PMScott
I have a problem with 5 tube radio and wondering if it isn't the 12AT6 tube. The 1st diode tests just ok and the 2nd diode tests much better. The radio plays ok for a short while but then fades and sounds like announcer is under water. Is it important for diodes to be close in measurment?
I changed out the 35w4,50c5,12ba6,12be6 but don't have a better 12at6 at the moment.
All connections have been reverified, new caps and ecaps and resistors checked. Any other ideas appreciated.
Thanks,
1/21/2012 7:26:40 PMPeter G. Balazsy
:I have a problem with 5 tube radio and wondering if it isn't the 12AT6 tube. The 1st diode tests just ok and the 2nd diode tests much better. The radio plays ok for a short while but then fades and sounds like announcer is under water. Is it important for diodes to be close in measurment?
:I changed out the 35w4,50c5,12ba6,12be6 but don't have a better 12at6 at the moment.
:All connections have been reverified, new caps and ecaps and resistors checked. Any other ideas appreciated.

That tube has 2 diodes as you've seen...and usually only one is used.
Check the print... sometimes they tie both together.
If you really suspect this as the problem.. you can simply use the other diode.

But the problem may be elsewhere.

:Thanks,
:

1/21/2012 7:30:12 PMPeter G. Balazsy
Have you already replaced all the old paper caps?
If not do that.
Especially the coupling cap feeding the grid of the output tube.

1/21/2012 7:34:40 PMEdd









Sir Scott . . . . .


Fustist . . what model do we be wukkin' ons ?



"but then fades and sounds like announcer is under water."



Don't know if that is being an abrupt or a gradual onset . . and that can be the distinct sound characteristics taken on by having an an open antenna coil or loop antenna, and is usually abrupt (connection opening) with a FIERCE diminishment in a sets sensitivity.


Push- pull- flex-bend-tap-winky tink in that area to see if it can be mechanically onset . . .(exposing a connectivity problem) .


Don't think that the 12AT6 diodes are your problem.


A confirmation of the 12AT6's 2 diodes could be ascertained by interchanging the connections at the tube socket such that the diode functions are then being swapped

.
Alternatively, if you are ambi-technological . . .you also know new electronics also.


Silicon small signal / switching diodes are as common in equipment as the grains of sand on the beach.


Specifically the 1N914 or 1N4148 family of diodes, just take amd solder tack in one or two diodes shunting the 12AT6 diode (s) .


A silicon diodes polarity wouild have its band on the diode going to the cathode of the 12AT6 while the other diodes lead (its anode) would be going to the tube sockets specific diode plate of the 12AT6.


73's de Edd



Confidence is the feeling you have before you understand the situation.






:Have you already replaced all the old paper caps?
:If not do that.
:Especially the coupling cap feeding the grid of the output tube.
:
:

1/21/2012 8:21:32 PMNorm Leal
Agree with Peter, replace coupling cap connected to grid #1 of 50C5 tube. Be sure grid #1 is 5 volts negative in relation to cathode.

Detector diodes can test very weak and still operate perfectly well.

Norm

:Have you already replaced all the old paper caps?
:If not do that.
:Especially the coupling cap feeding the grid of the output tube.
:
:

1/21/2012 9:04:50 PMScott
Peter /Norm - yes all caps have been changed out but maybe new cap is faulty?? Will verify.
Edd -- this is an Arvin 956t / chassis 392.
On the fading issue: Set is playing normally for 30 seconds then slowly becomes distorted sounding but you can still make out what is being said and also the volume drops. Sometimes the sound comes back to near normal and then drops back off.
I switched the radio antenna to a long wire and still had the same result, but need to further look at antenna coil.
Norm- I will check voltage on grid to cathod of 50c5.

Thanks gentlemen.

1/21/2012 9:48:11 PMWarren
Check the B+ on pin 7 of the 12AT6. The 470K resistor often becomes open ( or starting to ) This could also be the start of the silver migration problem in the IF cans.

1/23/2012 8:56:31 AMScott
Well, here is where I am at on this Arvin.
1. New coupling cap on 50c5 checked out ok.
2. Grid voltage in relation to cathode was very close to 5v at 4.9v.
3. B+ seems good throughout the set. To pin 7 of 12AT6 that Warren mentioned was 48v….calls for 54.
Also the 330k resistor coming off pn 7 is within tolerance.

So I tried aligning the set, although at times a bit noisy from static. There was some fading in and out of signal but was able to achieve a little bit better alignment than original settings. When adjusting the primary IF there was increase in static/cut out of signal. Clue?
On a strong signal the radio performs fairly good , although I have not had it on for more than 15min.
On weaker signals the noise level increases plus more prone to total fade out.
My current thinking is that there is mica disease in IF 1. (thanks Warren for mentioning this.) Any thoughts?

Other question: This receiver had a 4 part electrolytic. I wired the negative connection , tacking the smaller valued ec’s neg to the 70mfd neg and then routed this to the original neg connection. Any problems caused by this method?
Thanks.

1/23/2012 12:24:22 PMNorm Leal
Scott

Could you have outside interference? Computers, lights, motors, other electronic equipment all cause noise that will be noticed more on weaker signals. Weaker stations may also fade in and out.

Silver mica disease usually causes static crashes, similar to lightening. With a meter you may be able to measure a slight positive voltage on secondary of IF Transformers.

Norm


:Well, here is where I am at on this Arvin.
:1. New coupling cap on 50c5 checked out ok.
:2. Grid voltage in relation to cathode was very close to 5v at 4.9v.
:3. B+ seems good throughout the set. To pin 7 of 12AT6 that Warren mentioned was 48v….calls for 54.
: Also the 330k resistor coming off pn 7 is within tolerance.
:
:So I tried aligning the set, although at times a bit noisy from static. There was some fading in and out of signal but was able to achieve a little bit better alignment than original settings. When adjusting the primary IF there was increase in static/cut out of signal. Clue?
: On a strong signal the radio performs fairly good , although I have not had it on for more than 15min.
:On weaker signals the noise level increases plus more prone to total fade out.
:My current thinking is that there is mica disease in IF 1. (thanks Warren for mentioning this.) Any thoughts?
:
:Other question: This receiver had a 4 part electrolytic. I wired the negative connection , tacking the smaller valued ec’s neg to the 70mfd neg and then routed this to the original neg connection. Any problems caused by this method?
:Thanks.
:

1/23/2012 12:27:18 PMWarren
It would seem you do have the silver mica migration problem. Rebuild both IF transformers. You can use ceramic disk capacitors. 100pf at 25 volts are okay to use. When you re-align the radio afterwards if the slugs are too close together to get the 455KC, add another 10pf in parallel with the 100's.
The ground tie points of your filter capacitors and bypass cap seems okay they way you describe.
1/23/2012 5:11:00 PMScott
Norm....no extrodinary interference.
Warren ... rebuilt IF's but slug is frozen in 2nd IF so got to work this out. Have a slight signal generated signal at 500hz but very slight. This is with 100pf caps installed. Definitely had silver mica disease going on.Pulled the mica, clipped the crossing terminals and reassembled.
Side question: In IF transformers is the primary always the lower coil on the form?
Thanks again.


1/23/2012 5:23:53 PMWarren
The capacitors across the coils can be anywhere between 100pf to 250pf generally. You may need to experiment with the values. Try adding another 30pf with the 100's. See if that comes closer to the 455KC. The lower half of the coil is not always the primary side. If the resistance of both coils is the same, it does not matter.
1/25/2012 4:50:10 PMScott
Had to scrap the old IF's because the pot metal trimmers were giving me a problems. Broken screw head and frozen bottom trimmer. So the original IF's were 14.ohm on both primary and secondary.
I have replacements but they are not exact.
1 IF is 16.4 primary / 22.8 secondary
2 IF is 16.8 primary / 21.6 secondary
Will these be ok to substitute?

1/25/2012 5:45:14 PMWarren
The slugs are actually made of ferrite. Next time if you have a stuck one, you can try putting it in the freezer for 15 minutes. This would cause the ferrite to contract a little and it then may free up. The replacement IF transformers will probably work okay.
1/25/2012 9:18:37 PMIndalécio
Hi Friend;
Excuse me for bad english ...
I would bet on the power amplifier section. See the grid resistor of an amplifier 50C5 and replace the capacitors in this section ... which comes from the 12AV6 plate to the grid of a ceramic that 50C5 and eliminates the RF valve 12AV6.
The cap of the midpoint of the potentiometer, and the grid resistor of 1 12AV6 should be replaced ...
All this after adjusting for the friend have replaced capaditor of the 50C5 plate .... should also be suspicious of the audio transformer .... those are responsible for the defect ....
Best Regard´s
:I have a problem with 5 tube radio and wondering if it isn't the 12AT6 tube. The 1st diode tests just ok and the 2nd diode tests much better. The radio plays ok for a short while but then fades and sounds like announcer is under water. Is it important for diodes to be close in measurment?
:I changed out the 35w4,50c5,12ba6,12be6 but don't have a better 12at6 at the moment.
:All connections have been reverified, new caps and ecaps and resistors checked. Any other ideas appreciated.
:Thanks,
:



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