Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS

I don't know if this is what you are after, but this web site talks about making your own and links to other pages about making them. http://rimstar.org/materials/piezo/rochelle1.htm

:Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS
:

http://www.ilsiamerica.com/crystals/idx-xtal-smd.htm

http://rimstar.org/materials/piezo/rochelle1.htm

Ahhh the guys that restore these use barium titanate crystals..but where do they get there supply?

How do I know which crystal(s) to get in general from ILS? My pick up or the ones I wana restore in general are Astatic from the late 30s and 40s

I do not know. They list frequencies in MC. I am not sure if those are resonance frequencies or response ranges, though judging by the dimensions listed, some of the crystals are of sizes typical for more modern cartridges.

As far as I know, all the restorers are installing ceramic cartridge elements in the old housings.

Ok if those that restore the phono pick-ups are using ceramic cartridges ...where the heck do they get them...Would be nice to know so all of us "do it yourself-ers.." could do it and save some $$$ and have the satifaction of doing it ...ANY IDEAS??

:As far as I know, all the restorers are installing ceramic cartridge elements in the old housings.
:

AI,
I did. Bought a cheap (stereo/ceramic)cartridge on line. Melted the soft (vinyl I think) package with acetone. Was too small/fragile to do surgery with a knife. Results were the ceramic slabs in a flexible mount, attached to electrical wires, which I adapted to original pot metal case. Bridged stereo channels and added proper terminating (impedance) components for vacuum tube interface, and new light weight (read more compliant) armature. Uses original stylus. Results were near original equivalent crystal of 3-4 vrms at the tube. The Rochelle Salts article was very interesting, but not for the faint of heart.

marv

:Ok if those that restore the phono pick-ups are using ceramic cartridges ...where the heck do they get them...Would be nice to know so all of us "do it yourself-ers.." could do it and save some $$$ and have the satifaction of doing it ...ANY IDEAS??
:
:
::As far as I know, all the restorers are installing ceramic cartridge elements in the old housings.
::
:

Thats fine Marv but i am looking for a source..I know you can take old 1970s-today crtridges and tear them apart but I rather find a source ..After all the guys restoring these MUST have a source

:I did. Bought a cheap (stereo/ceramic)cartridge on line. Melted the soft (vinyl I think) package with acetone. Was too small/fragile to do surgery with a knife. Results were the ceramic slabs in a flexible mount, attached to electrical wires, which I adapted to original pot metal case. Bridged stereo channels and added proper terminating (impedance) components for vacuum tube interface, and new light weight (read more compliant) armature. Uses original stylus. Results were near original equivalent crystal of 3-4 vrms at the tube. The Rochelle Salts article was very interesting, but not for the faint of heart.
:
:marv
:
::Ok if those that restore the phono pick-ups are using ceramic cartridges ...where the heck do they get them...Would be nice to know so all of us "do it yourself-ers.." could do it and save some $$$ and have the satifaction of doing it ...ANY IDEAS??
::
::
:::As far as I know, all the restorers are installing ceramic cartridge elements in the old housings.
:::
::
:

I am sick and tired of this never ending thread. Good Grief!

No one forces you to read it.

George,
Purchased from Radio Shack on line for $15.95. It was Phanstiel. Cheapest I could find for my first attempt. West Tech Services restores old cartridges, but don't know if they use newer ceramic innards or have a source for the old salt slabs. I found guidance from a former forum contributor, and his web site. Believe his handle was Syl, (Canada) but hasn't been here in a while.

marv

:Thats fine Marv but i am looking for a source..I know you can take old 1970s-today crtridges and tear them apart but I rather find a source ..After all the guys restoring these MUST have a source
:
:
::I did. Bought a cheap (stereo/ceramic)cartridge on line. Melted the soft (vinyl I think) package with acetone. Was too small/fragile to do surgery with a knife. Results were the ceramic slabs in a flexible mount, attached to electrical wires, which I adapted to original pot metal case. Bridged stereo channels and added proper terminating (impedance) components for vacuum tube interface, and new light weight (read more compliant) armature. Uses original stylus. Results were near original equivalent crystal of 3-4 vrms at the tube. The Rochelle Salts article was very interesting, but not for the faint of heart.
::
::marv
::
:::Ok if those that restore the phono pick-ups are using ceramic cartridges ...where the heck do they get them...Would be nice to know so all of us "do it yourself-ers.." could do it and save some $$$ and have the satifaction of doing it ...ANY IDEAS??
:::
:::
::::As far as I know, all the restorers are installing ceramic cartridge elements in the old housings.
::::
:::
::
:

Geo,
I purchased the cheapest cartridge I could find for my first attempt. On line from the Shack, it was a Phanstiel ($15.95) West Tech Services restores old cartridges, but don't know if they use modern ceramic innards or found a source of the salt slabs. I had direct email guidance from a former forum contributor, and his web site. Think his handle was Syl. Web site no longer exists and haven't seen him on this forum in a long time.

marv

marv

:Thats fine Marv but i am looking for a source..I know you can take old 1970s-today crtridges and tear them apart but I rather find a source ..After all the guys restoring these MUST have a source
:
:
::I did. Bought a cheap (stereo/ceramic)cartridge on line. Melted the soft (vinyl I think) package with acetone. Was too small/fragile to do surgery with a knife. Results were the ceramic slabs in a flexible mount, attached to electrical wires, which I adapted to original pot metal case. Bridged stereo channels and added proper terminating (impedance) components for vacuum tube interface, and new light weight (read more compliant) armature. Uses original stylus. Results were near original equivalent crystal of 3-4 vrms at the tube. The Rochelle Salts article was very interesting, but not for the faint of heart.
::
::marv
::
:::Ok if those that restore the phono pick-ups are using ceramic cartridges ...where the heck do they get them...Would be nice to know so all of us "do it yourself-ers.." could do it and save some $$$ and have the satifaction of doing it ...ANY IDEAS??
:::
:::
::::As far as I know, all the restorers are installing ceramic cartridge elements in the old housings.
::::
:::
::
:

Marv..I know of those who restore thes and charge 45 bucks to do so I am looking for a modern crystal to instal..I know u can "steal" one out of a modern phono but I am looking for the modern ceramic to replace the old salt crystal..I am looking for a distributor and share infor with all here in this forum...I think it would be enjoyable to have a source and be able to do it for ourselfs

Geo,
There are several mfrs making ceramic materials that exhibit the piezo effect. There are other materials (man made/not ceramic) that also exhibit the effect. Poly??? something or other. I remember them as resettable fuses on circuit boards. Excess current would move the encapsulated slab or rearrange the molecular structure to inhibit current flow. Just Google "piezo effect" for pages of info. Epson uses the piezo effect in their ink jet print heads, but those little slabs are microscopic. Might also try contacting (email) West Tech Services for any subject info they might be willing to divulge.

marv

:Marv..I know of those who restore thes and charge 45 bucks to do so I am looking for a modern crystal to instal..I know u can "steal" one out of a modern phono but I am looking for the modern ceramic to replace the old salt crystal..I am looking for a distributor and share infor with all here in this forum...I think it would be enjoyable to have a source and be able to do it for ourselfs
:

:Geo,
:There are several mfrs making ceramic materials that exhibit the piezo effect. There are other materials (man made/not ceramic) that also exhibit the effect. Poly??? something or other. I remember them as resettable fuses on circuit boards. Excess current would move the encapsulated slab or rearrange the molecular structure to inhibit current flow. Just Google "piezo effect" for pages of info. Epson uses the piezo effect in their ink jet print heads, but those little slabs are microscopic. Might also try contacting (email) West Tech Services for any subject info they might be willing to divulge.
:
:marv
:
::Marv..I know of those who restore thes and charge 45 bucks to do so I am looking for a modern crystal to instal..I know u can "steal" one out of a modern phono but I am looking for the modern ceramic to replace the old salt crystal..I am looking for a distributor and share infor with all here in this forum...I think it would be enjoyable to have a source and be able to do it for ourselfs
::
:
Who keeps putting stupid childish remarks under "Cindy"? That is childs play...Notice the IP address is not mine. Some one who has nothing better to do. Maybe doesn't like women...ummm...wonder what their problem is...get a life. YOU ARE RUDE!

:Geo,
:There are several mfrs making ceramic materials that exhibit the piezo effect. There are other materials (man made/not ceramic) that also exhibit the effect. Poly??? something or other. I remember them as resettable fuses on circuit boards. Excess current would move the encapsulated slab or rearrange the molecular structure to inhibit current flow. Just Google "piezo effect" for pages of info. Epson uses the piezo effect in their ink jet print heads, but those little slabs are microscopic. Might also try contacting (email) West Tech Services for any subject info they might be willing to divulge.
:
:marv
:
::Marv..I know of those who restore thes and charge 45 bucks to do so I am looking for a modern crystal to instal..I know u can "steal" one out of a modern phono but I am looking for the modern ceramic to replace the old salt crystal..I am looking for a distributor and share infor with all here in this forum...I think it would be enjoyable to have a source and be able to do it for ourselfs
::
:
Who keeps putting stupid childish remarks under "Cindy"? That is childs play...Notice the IP address is not mine. Some one who has nothing better to do. Maybe doesn't like women...ummm...wonder what their problem is...get a life. YOU ARE RUDE!

try looking at play things of past Mr gary has many old phono cartidge`s

:I did. Bought a cheap (stereo/ceramic)cartridge on line. Melted the soft (vinyl I think) package with acetone. Was too small/fragile to do surgery with a knife. Results were the ceramic slabs in a flexible mount, attached to electrical wires, which I adapted to original pot metal case. Bridged stereo channels and added proper terminating (impedance) components for vacuum tube interface, and new light weight (read more compliant) armature. Uses original stylus. Results were near original equivalent crystal of 3-4 vrms at the tube. The Rochelle Salts article was very interesting, but not for the faint of heart.
:
:marv
:
::Ok if those that restore the phono pick-ups are using ceramic cartridges ...where the heck do they get them...Would be nice to know so all of us "do it yourself-ers.." could do it and save some $$$ and have the satifaction of doing it ...ANY IDEAS??
::
::
:::As far as I know, all the restorers are installing ceramic cartridge elements in the old housings.
:::
::
:

Darron,
And yes probably subject to the same destructive environmental factors as the originals still in many sets, begging for repair.

marv

: try looking at play things of past Mr gary has many old phono cartidge`s
:
:
:
:
:
::I did. Bought a cheap (stereo/ceramic)cartridge on line. Melted the soft (vinyl I think) package with acetone. Was too small/fragile to do surgery with a knife. Results were the ceramic slabs in a flexible mount, attached to electrical wires, which I adapted to original pot metal case. Bridged stereo channels and added proper terminating (impedance) components for vacuum tube interface, and new light weight (read more compliant) armature. Uses original stylus. Results were near original equivalent crystal of 3-4 vrms at the tube. The Rochelle Salts article was very interesting, but not for the faint of heart.
::
::marv
::
:::Ok if those that restore the phono pick-ups are using ceramic cartridges ...where the heck do they get them...Would be nice to know so all of us "do it yourself-ers.." could do it and save some $$$ and have the satifaction of doing it ...ANY IDEAS??
:::
:::
::::As far as I know, all the restorers are installing ceramic cartridge elements in the old housings.
::::
:::
::
:

:Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS Here is some info on making your own crystals.
http://www.seawhy.com/xlroch.html http://rimstar.org/materials/piezo/rochelle1.htm

::Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS Here is some info on making your own crystals.
:http://www.seawhy.com/xlroch.html http://rimstar.org/materials/piezo/rochelle1.htm
:

:::Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS Here is some info on making your own crystals. Two separate links now it should work
::http://www.seawhy.com/xlroch.html -----------------------http://rimstar.org/materials/piezo/rochelle1.htm
::
:

Those have already been suggested...I am now looking for piezo material....Please read previous info before posting

::::Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS Here is some info on making your own crystals. Two separate links now it should work
:::http://www.seawhy.com/xlroch.html -----------------------http://rimstar.org/materials/piezo/rochelle1.htm
:::
::
:

Geo,
If you can buy it to your specs (H x W x T), then great, otherwise make it yourself. Every cartridge will have its own dimensions, and consequently one common slab will not fit all. Get real.

marv

:Those have already been suggested...I am now looking for piezo material....Please read previous info before posting
:
:
:
:::::Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS Here is some info on making your own crystals. Two separate links now it should work
::::http://www.seawhy.com/xlroch.html -----------------------http://rimstar.org/materials/piezo/rochelle1.htm
::::
:::
::
:

I am looking for a source...as i have stated before..Those that restore the cartridges have a source ..I am searching for that source and wana share the information....

:Geo,
:If you can buy it to your specs (H x W x T), then great, otherwise make it yourself. Every cartridge will have its own dimensions, and consequently one common slab will not fit all. Get real.
:
:marv
:
::Those have already been suggested...I am now looking for piezo material....Please read previous info before posting
::
::
::
::::::Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS Here is some info on making your own crystals. Two separate links now it should work
:::::http://www.seawhy.com/xlroch.html -----------------------http://rimstar.org/materials/piezo/rochelle1.htm
:::::
::::
:::
::
:

In reference to where to get replacement crystals, this is from an old post by SYL the guy in Quebec who is considered the Guru: You need a good donor. Astatic made crystal cartridges like the 146 and 142 until mid 70ies. They started to encapsulate the crystals in the late 60ies. So if you can find a 146 dated 1970-72 you're ok. (Good luck). There are also Ronette cartridges giving a solid 2V with encapsulated crystals, they can be had for about 20$ + shipping from a known cartridge supplier.
Here is the blog address. It states that encapsulated crystals last a long time. He did one for me and it has been years anow.
http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4980

:Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS
:

Jeff,
Your reference is one of many from Syl's recommends. Apparently Geo. wants a source for original salts crystals, and nothing else. I've successfully replaced a 1946 salts crystal with a modern ceramic counterpart, with equiv output, but he wants salts and their sources. I got help from Syl in Quebec doing my rebuild also, but didn't search endlessly for salts.

marv

:In reference to where to get replacement crystals, this is from an old post by SYL the guy in Quebec who is considered the Guru: You need a good donor. Astatic made crystal cartridges like the 146 and 142 until mid 70ies. They started to encapsulate the crystals in the late 60ies. So if you can find a 146 dated 1970-72 you're ok. (Good luck). There are also Ronette cartridges giving a solid 2V with encapsulated crystals, they can be had for about 20$ + shipping from a known cartridge supplier.
:Here is the blog address. It states that encapsulated crystals last a long time. He did one for me and it has been years anow.
:http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4980
:
:
:
:
::Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS
::
:

Learn to read Marv....i am no longer looking for "salt" crystals..but a modern equivilant

Your spelling is poor. Your manors are none. Selfish and rude you are. You asked about stinking salt crystals, then piezo, now something else again ! No wounder nobody can follow your postings. Make up your mind Mush Brain !

:Your spelling is poor. Your manors are none. Selfish and rude you are. You asked about stinking salt crystals, then piezo, now something else again ! No wounder nobody can follow your postings. Make up your mind Mush Brain !
:

:Learn to read Marv....i am no longer looking for "salt" crystals..but a modern equivilant
:

Geo,
As a matter of courtesy, I think I can find my copy of one of Syl's original articles pertaining to the subject matter, and I'd be willing to scan and email to you if interested.

marv

::Learn to read Marv....i am no longer looking for "salt" crystals..but a modern equivilant
::
:

:Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS
:
Wow! Can't believe how WEIRD this thread has become. Don't listen to those negative comments. Some people just need to show how juvenile they are.
Hope this helps.
Terry

Yes terry i thought of that ..was told they are not the same ..thanks though

Terry,
Typically those are Quartz crystals, much smaller, more fragile, and I suspect not suitable. There are certainly piezo resonators used as frequency standards in modern digital equipment, but with less exacting specs. than those required in transmitters (read FCC) standards. It might be interesting though, for some energetic forum correspondent to actually slice n dice one, add an armature, stylus and case, then give it a run around an old 78

marv

::Hi all.. As many of us are aware ..old phonograph pick-ups are always bad because of the Rochelle salt crystals in them go bad. I am aware of those that restore the pick-ups and charge $35 bucks plus shipping to do so..but i want to be able to do it myself.. Iknow it is a tricky operation to do so but the ONLY thing hold me back and others like me is ...WHERE DO WE GET the crystals to do so? Those that restore these must be getting them from somewhere...I would liek to know where so I can do the work myself and have the satisfaction of doing so...ANY IDEAS? THANKS
::
:
:Have you considered buying old receiver or transmitter crystals? I may be way off base, but it would seem that although meant to oscillate, they're basically just piezo crystals. I know this isn't raw material like you want, but it's an idea.
:Wow! Can't believe how WEIRD this thread has become. Don't listen to those negative comments. Some people just need to show how juvenile they are.
:Hope this helps.
:Terry
:

Marv...I tried that ...same as a piezo crystal..can not get enough volts/volume to make them functional..to weak

Geo,
As noted in my earlier post, I did it with a modern ceramic stereo cartridge. One thing I failed to mention was terminating impedance of the cartridge itself. I read somewhere on the web, about it, and experimented with different resistors directly across the cartridge, then AC coupled to the tube. In theory bridging the stereo channels should increase output, but terminating resistor helped too. I got 3-4 vrms from a playing record during tests.

marv

:Marv...I tried that ...same as a piezo crystal..can not get enough volts/volume to make them functional..to weak
: