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Rogers 11-95
3/4/2010 6:58:20 AMMike
Need some help with a rogers 11-95. Working on it last nite and the tunning light shorted on the chasis.
Now I have no audio but do have gain and static. Could it be a resistor or capacitor. Any help would be appeciated
3/4/2010 10:30:10 AMNorm Leal
Mike

The tuning light is on B+ line. Measure B+ voltage. If the lamp burns out may not have proper voltages for part of the circuit.

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/216/M0029216.pdf

Norm

:Need some help with a rogers 11-95. Working on it last nite and the tunning light shorted on the chasis.
:Now I have no audio but do have gain and static. Could it be a resistor or capacitor. Any help would be appeciated
:

3/4/2010 11:58:32 AMmike
:Mike
:
: The tuning light is on B+ line. Measure B+ voltage. If the lamp burns out may not have proper voltages for part of the circuit.
:
:http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/216/M0029216.pdf
:
:Norm

Just so you know this bulb was burnt out when shorted and now i have 24 volts dc now at the bulb
:
::Need some help with a rogers 11-95. Working on it last nite and the tunning light shorted on the chasis.
::Now I have no audio but do have gain and static. Could it be a resistor or capacitor. Any help would be appeciated
::
:

3/4/2010 2:48:31 PMRogers flipdial
If you shorted one of the wires to the chassis - R35 (1180 ohms) was likely damaged - did you let any smoke out ? check for plate voltage at the 6K7.

:::Need some help with a rogers 11-95. Working on it last nite and the tunning light shorted on the chasis.
::Now I have no audio but do have gain and static. Could it be a resistor or capacitor. Any help would be appeciated
::
:

3/4/2010 6:32:25 PMmike
:If you shorted one of the wires to the chassis - R35 (1180 ohms) was likely damaged - did you let any smoke out ? check for plate voltage at the 6K7.
:
:
:
::::Need some help with a rogers 11-95. Working on it last nite and the tunning light shorted on the chasis.
:::Now I have no audio but do have gain and static. Could it be a resistor or capacitor. Any help would be appeciated
:::No smoke but will the color codes for resistors be the same as they are today cant seem to find that one resistor in this radio. As well I do have tone and volume control just no front end. No smoke seen when shorted out but a flash and then no audio.
::
:
3/4/2010 9:57:57 PMRogers flipdial
The color code for the resistors in that radio should be as below. you'll have to get the schematic out and trace each of the connections to that dial light - If the resistor has gone off value you will see lower voltage on the plates of all the front end tubes.R36 could also be a problem if the dial light is not there or burned out - I believe that bulb is 24 volts at 40 mA - I've had trouble finding them myself.

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/References/rmacodes/reschart.htm

Be careful flipping the chassis over too many times - The speaker cords in those radios are quite often brittle and will break the insulation open or break the wire right off if you twist the wires too much.


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3/5/2010 4:35:49 AMEdd








Sir Mike. . . . . .


Looks like your degree of destruction would be relevant as to which terminal of that lamp got connected to chassis ground.


Now, in consulting the enhanced inset of your chassis below, if the [B] terminal was shorted out that 300Vdc thru R35 should put up to a potential 78 watts being across it and vaporizing it.


The other situation would be the lamps [A] terminal getting grounded and that lamp should go off like a flashbulb, and then there is a still present power loop to ground thru R35--R36 and there could be a potential 24 watts across those two components for the duration.


Guess that you will have to locate those A and B busses and track down all of the tie ins and zero in on R-35 and/or/R-36.


Using the voltage references that are marked up around the schematic, reveals a potential 24 VDC being available across the lamp, with the currrent variance being the degree of conduction of the 3 RF tubes plate consumption at signal strengths.


Now if that was using a 6.3 VDC lamp at its common 150 ma, to provide a common illunination level, if one was to be using a 24 VDC lamp instead, then a downscaling of the current level at that higher voltage level to maintain that same luminance level would have the current then only being ~35-40 ma.


Any chance that lamp still might have its marking on it as per its lamp number?


The ONLIEST lamp that I can even think of at a 24 volt rating is the slide type lamp that was commionly used on manual telephone switchboards decades of years ago.


Those old 24E and 24X series were 24VDC @ 35 ma rated.


In the miniature bayonet configuration . .think #47 or 1847 . . . there is only the 1819 which is rated up at 28VDC @40 ma, which should still function , albeit possibly a bit dimmer.


In the even smaller midget basing, there are the 327, 334 , 335 , 385 , 397 , 388 and 399, all of which are spec'd at 28VDC @ 40 ma.



If my unit to repair, just by virtue of the lamp obtainability, I certainly might consider using a High intensity WHITE LED to replace the lamp (CONSIDERING NO MORE SHORTEE-SHORTEE's ! )

That would provide a much faster luminance level transitioning response than an incandescant lamp ever would have.


If one was use a 1.5 k ohm 1 watt metal film dropping and current limiting resistor in series with the LED, that would have the LED unit running at 10 ma consumption.


Considering now that the old lamp was loading down to ~40ma, then one merely shunts across that pair just mentioned, with a 680 ohm 2 watt metal film series resistor, in order to raise the cluster up to a 24V 40 ma drain as the unit was, when using an incandescant lamp.


If you want to use a lamp, and are coming up with " unavailabus" or "too muchus", I think that I still have a /some freebie #327's midgets floating around, in case a supplier wants to make you buy ONLY a whole box of 10 at ~$3.00 + a pop.



73's de Edd












Enhanced Inset on Rogers 11-95 . . . SCHEMATIC:
















:The color code for the resistors in that radio should be as below. you'll have to get the schematic out and trace each of the connections to that dial light - If the resistor has gone off value you will see lower voltage on the plates of all the front end tubes.R36 could also be a problem if the dial light is not there or burned out - I believe that bulb is 24 volts at 40 mA - I've had trouble finding them myself.
:
:http://www.nostalgiaair.org/References/rmacodes/reschart.htm
:
:Be careful flipping the chassis over too many times - The speaker cords in those radios are quite often brittle and will break the insulation open or break the wire right off if you twist the wires too much.
:
:
:
:
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:::
::
:

3/5/2010 11:58:53 AMRogers flipdial
That's excellent EDD - now my memory has been jogged - the dial light should be 28 volt at 40 mA - I guess 1487 would be the right one - I'm pretty sure its a miniature screw base - MIKE ?? I'll have to go out to the shop and check a couple of radios when I get home from work - I might have bought a couple of those bulbs last summer at a flea market - I WAS using a grain of wheat bulb and stuffing it in the old socket - I'd like to find some more of those bulbs - I think I have about 4 radios like that to restore - did some searching around and came up with this website to start - but I'd rather find some in Canada to avoid the shipping and customs problems.

http://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/lites.htm


3/5/2010 12:33:44 PMRogers flipdial
Ok - did a little more searching - found a really good reference list ---
http://www.mts.net/~william5/library/minilamp.htm

going down the list - I don't see a miniature screw base at 28 volt 40 mA - the 1487 is only 14 volts - I don't think they used a 1477 - its 170 mA - I'll have to check a radio to see. - Mike - does your burned out bulb have a number stamped on it ?
What a crappy memory I have - I know I fixed each type of radio with these in them - Rogers, Majestic and Deforest Crosley; in some of them the bulb was still good - but I know I did the grain of wheat sub in at least two when I couldn't find a replacement bulb.
Now that I need a few - I'd sure like to find the proper bulb.

3/5/2010 1:12:09 PMWarren
Maybe this link has something you can work with.

http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/Products/DialLamps.aspx

3/5/2010 4:05:13 PMMike
Thanks all for the information now I just have to get the time to fix my mistake.

Mike


:Maybe this link has something you can work with.
:
:http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/Products/DialLamps.aspx
:

3/6/2010 2:34:11 PMRogers flipdial
Nope - that didn't help - checked two radio chassis - one is missing the bulb altogether - the other one has a bulb - simply marked Mazda 24 - I'll keep searching !
3/5/2010 4:03:45 PMMike
EDD
A big thanks for this information a piture is worth a thousand words. again thanks

Mike

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:Sir Mike. . . . . .
:
:
:Looks like your degree of destruction would be relevant as to which terminal of that lamp got connected to chassis ground.
:
:
:Now, in consulting the enhanced inset of your chassis below, if the [B] terminal was shorted out that 300Vdc thru R35 should put up to a potential 78 watts being across it and vaporizing it.
:
:
:The other situation would be the lamps [A] terminal getting grounded and that lamp should go off like a flashbulb, and then there is a still present power loop to ground thru R35--R36 and there could be a potential 24 watts across those two components for the duration.
:
:
:Guess that you will have to locate those A and B busses and track down all of the tie ins and zero in on R-35 and/or/R-36.
:
:
:Using the voltage references that are marked up around the schematic, reveals a potential 24 VDC being available across the lamp, with the currrent variance being the degree of conduction of the 3 RF tubes plate consumption at signal strengths.
:
:
:Now if that was using a 6.3 VDC lamp at its common 150 ma, to provide a common illunination level, if one was to be using a 24 VDC lamp instead, then a downscaling of the current level at that higher voltage level to maintain that same luminance level would have the current then only being ~35-40 ma.
:
:
:Any chance that lamp still might have its marking on it as per its lamp number?
:
:
:The ONLIEST lamp that I can even think of at a 24 volt rating is the slide type lamp that was commionly used on manual telephone switchboards decades of years ago.
:
:
:Those old 24E and 24X series were 24VDC @ 35 ma rated.
:
:
:In the miniature bayonet configuration . .think #47 or 1847 . . . there is only the 1819 which is rated up at 28VDC @40 ma, which should still function , albeit possibly a bit dimmer.
:
:
:In the even smaller midget basing, there are the 327, 334 , 335 , 385 , 397 , 388 and 399, all of which are spec'd at 28VDC @ 40 ma.
:
:
:
:If my unit to repair, just by virtue of the lamp obtainability, I certainly might consider using a High intensity WHITE LED to replace the lamp (CONSIDERING NO MORE SHORTEE-SHORTEE's ! )
:
: That would provide a much faster luminance level transitioning response than an incandescant lamp ever would have.
:
:
:If one was use a 1.5 k ohm 1 watt metal film dropping and current limiting resistor in series with the LED, that would have the LED unit running at 10 ma consumption.
:
:
:Considering now that the old lamp was loading down to ~40ma, then one merely shunts across that pair just mentioned, with a 680 ohm 2 watt metal film series resistor, in order to raise the cluster up to a 24V 40 ma drain as the unit was, when using an incandescant lamp.
:
:
:If you want to use a lamp, and are coming up with " unavailabus" or "too muchus", I think that I still have a /some freebie #327's midgets floating around, in case a supplier wants to make you buy ONLY a whole box of 10 at ~$3.00 + a pop.
:
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:73's de Edd

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:Enhanced Inset on Rogers 11-95 . . . SCHEMATIC:
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::The color code for the resistors in that radio should be as below. you'll have to get the schematic out and trace each of the connections to that dial light - If the resistor has gone off value you will see lower voltage on the plates of all the front end tubes.R36 could also be a problem if the dial light is not there or burned out - I believe that bulb is 24 volts at 40 mA - I've had trouble finding them myself.
::
::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/References/rmacodes/reschart.htm
::
::Be careful flipping the chassis over too many times - The speaker cords in those radios are quite often brittle and will break the insulation open or break the wire right off if you twist the wires too much.
::
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3/6/2010 5:08:50 PM Ed Kraushar
I assume that you are enquiring about the bulb that acts as a tuning indicator, not a dial lamp.

My DFC Royal star uses the same setup, the lamp dims as the radio is tuned on to the station. The original type bulb is almost impossible to find. What is critical in that usage is the amp draw of the bulb, not the voltage. You need a bulb with VERY LOW current needs and can probably go down to 12 to 14 volts.

In my radio I used a Radio Shack miniature bulb with leads attached and made up a holder for it to fit in the socket. Any bulb I found that fit the socket required too much current. A few years back Norm had mentioned that a bulb used as an indicator in old push button phones may work too.

Ed.

3/6/2010 5:25:04 PMEd Kraushar
Here is a comment from Norm in 2004 in an ARF posting.

"Using a low current lamp would work as a tuning meter. AVC voltage is fed to grids of RF and IF tubes. This voltage goes more negative on stronger signals. In turn RF & IF tubes draw less current. A lamp wired like this would dim on stronger signals."

Ed.


3/7/2010 1:08:04 AMRogers flipdial
Hi Ed - I like the EDD's idea of the led -- I wasn't sure if it was impossible to get that light bulb or not - I'd like to know if it has a standard part number - I haven't found thst yet - With the number I might be able to turn up a supplier on the internet - I've seen some very good websites on light bulbs - there are collectors for those too.
I looked in my shop today - I have a package of "Dialco" I think - 28 volt at 40 mA - they each come packed in a small aluminum cylinder with a white plastic top - I've stolen the bulbs out of them and them secured them to a miniature screw base - the bulb then gets screwed into a regular holder - but then that holder and bulb are shoved up inside a hollow cylinder. So whatever sub arrangement you come up with can be no bigger diameter than the original bulb. The 28 volt 40 mA works ok - but is a little dimmer than the original.
Of course - all of this is extra work - it sure would be nice to come up with a supply of the originals - I'll keep looking.
11/16/2010 6:45:53 PMMike
Well finaly got to look at this radio and found out that the resistor set up in this radio is a strip with all the diffent resistors in it. Now my understanding is I need the bulb to get the voltages correct. This would explaine why the resistor get hot when on to long as the voltages are off.

:Hi Ed - I like the EDD's idea of the led -- I wasn't sure if it was impossible to get that light bulb or not - I'd like to know if it has a standard part number - I haven't found thst yet - With the number I might be able to turn up a supplier on the internet - I've seen some very good websites on light bulbs - there are collectors for those too.
: I looked in my shop today - I have a package of "Dialco" I think - 28 volt at 40 mA - they each come packed in a small aluminum cylinder with a white plastic top - I've stolen the bulbs out of them and them secured them to a miniature screw base - the bulb then gets screwed into a regular holder - but then that holder and bulb are shoved up inside a hollow cylinder. So whatever sub arrangement you come up with can be no bigger diameter than the original bulb. The 28 volt 40 mA works ok - but is a little dimmer than the original.
: Of course - all of this is extra work - it sure would be nice to come up with a supply of the originals - I'll keep looking.
:



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