http://kropla.com/electric2.htm
Bob Z
:I've seen the answer to this before on the Forum but I need a review. Can a 60 Hz transformer (from US radio) be used in Canada?
:
Ed.
Now, there was many more areas only five years ago. When an individual line needs a signal upgrade, the new equipment uses 60 cycle power. I have a friend who works for Con Ed and 10 years ago he asked if we were going to stop using 25 cycles since it costs much more to generate for us and no one else in the area uses it. Fat chance.
It used to be done with rotary converters (google it) but now we use electronic converters. I'd guess we will have 25 cdycle AC in the subway until after I retire, and that is not for atleast another 12 years.
But, it is still alive and gasping for breath here in NY.
Bob Z
::25 cycle power HAD its day? You probably don't use the New York City Subway too often. I work in their Signal Department and there are still many areas left with 110 Volt, 25 cycle AC power.
::
::Now, there was many more areas only five years ago. When an individual line needs a signal upgrade, the new equipment uses 60 cycle power. I have a friend who works for Con Ed and 10 years ago he asked if we were going to stop using 25 cycles since it costs much more to generate for us and no one else in the area uses it. Fat chance.
::
::It used to be done with rotary converters (google it) but now we use electronic converters. I'd guess we will have 25 cdycle AC in the subway until after I retire, and that is not for atleast another 12 years.
::
::But, it is still alive and gasping for breath here in NY.
::
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:Yes I know about the NY subway system and the rotary converters (still dont know exactly how they work). Once upon the entire Pennsylvania used 11,000 Volts at 25 Hz. I saw the lights in subway stations flickering at 25. At one time, lots of 25 Hertz was generated at Niagaria Falls, dating from the time of Tesla, I reckon.
:Lewis
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Bob:
No, I mean those wires that the electric locomotives ran under. Google "GG-1", that was the most famous locomotive.
Lewis
:
:::25 cycle power HAD its day? You probably don't use the New York City Subway too often. I work in their Signal Department and there are still many areas left with 110 Volt, 25 cycle AC power.
:::
:::Now, there was many more areas only five years ago. When an individual line needs a signal upgrade, the new equipment uses 60 cycle power. I have a friend who works for Con Ed and 10 years ago he asked if we were going to stop using 25 cycles since it costs much more to generate for us and no one else in the area uses it. Fat chance.
:::
:::It used to be done with rotary converters (google it) but now we use electronic converters. I'd guess we will have 25 cdycle AC in the subway until after I retire, and that is not for atleast another 12 years.
:::
:::But, it is still alive and gasping for breath here in NY.
:::
::
::
::
::Yes I know about the NY subway system and the rotary converters (still dont know exactly how they work). Once upon the entire Pennsylvania used 11,000 Volts at 25 Hz. I saw the lights in subway stations flickering at 25. At one time, lots of 25 Hertz was generated at Niagaria Falls, dating from the time of Tesla, I reckon.
::Lewis
::
:
Bob:
No, I mean those wires that the electric locomotives ran under. Google "GG-1", that was the most famous locomotive.
Lewis
:
:::25 cycle power HAD its day? You probably don't use the New York City Subway too often. I work in their Signal Department and there are still many areas left with 110 Volt, 25 cycle AC power.
:::
:::Now, there was many more areas only five years ago. When an individual line needs a signal upgrade, the new equipment uses 60 cycle power. I have a friend who works for Con Ed and 10 years ago he asked if we were going to stop using 25 cycles since it costs much more to generate for us and no one else in the area uses it. Fat chance.
:::
:::It used to be done with rotary converters (google it) but now we use electronic converters. I'd guess we will have 25 cdycle AC in the subway until after I retire, and that is not for atleast another 12 years.
:::
:::But, it is still alive and gasping for breath here in NY.
:::
::
::
::
::Yes I know about the NY subway system and the rotary converters (still dont know exactly how they work). Once upon the entire Pennsylvania used 11,000 Volts at 25 Hz. I saw the lights in subway stations flickering at 25. At one time, lots of 25 Hertz was generated at Niagaria Falls, dating from the time of Tesla, I reckon.
::Lewis
::
:
Bob:
No, I mean those wires that the electric locomotives ran under. Google "GG-1", that was the most famous locomotive.
Lewis
:
:::25 cycle power HAD its day? You probably don't use the New York City Subway too often. I work in their Signal Department and there are still many areas left with 110 Volt, 25 cycle AC power.
:::
:::Now, there was many more areas only five years ago. When an individual line needs a signal upgrade, the new equipment uses 60 cycle power. I have a friend who works for Con Ed and 10 years ago he asked if we were going to stop using 25 cycles since it costs much more to generate for us and no one else in the area uses it. Fat chance.
:::
:::It used to be done with rotary converters (google it) but now we use electronic converters. I'd guess we will have 25 cdycle AC in the subway until after I retire, and that is not for atleast another 12 years.
:::
:::But, it is still alive and gasping for breath here in NY.
:::
::
::
::
::Yes I know about the NY subway system and the rotary converters (still dont know exactly how they work). Once upon the entire Pennsylvania used 11,000 Volts at 25 Hz. I saw the lights in subway stations flickering at 25. At one time, lots of 25 Hertz was generated at Niagaria Falls, dating from the time of Tesla, I reckon.
::Lewis
::
:
Bob Z
::Lewis, are you talking about 11kv to the house outlets, doesn't that seem a little hi for the secondary's.
::
::Bob Z
:
:Bob:
:No, I mean those wires that the electric locomotives ran under. Google "GG-1", that was the most famous locomotive.
:Lewis
:
:
:
:
:
:
::
::::25 cycle power HAD its day? You probably don't use the New York City Subway too often. I work in their Signal Department and there are still many areas left with 110 Volt, 25 cycle AC power.
::::
::::Now, there was many more areas only five years ago. When an individual line needs a signal upgrade, the new equipment uses 60 cycle power. I have a friend who works for Con Ed and 10 years ago he asked if we were going to stop using 25 cycles since it costs much more to generate for us and no one else in the area uses it. Fat chance.
::::
::::It used to be done with rotary converters (google it) but now we use electronic converters. I'd guess we will have 25 cdycle AC in the subway until after I retire, and that is not for atleast another 12 years.
::::
::::But, it is still alive and gasping for breath here in NY.
::::
:::
:::
:::
:::Yes I know about the NY subway system and the rotary converters (still dont know exactly how they work). Once upon the entire Pennsylvania used 11,000 Volts at 25 Hz. I saw the lights in subway stations flickering at 25. At one time, lots of 25 Hertz was generated at Niagaria Falls, dating from the time of Tesla, I reckon.
:::Lewis
:::
::
:
But we understood your original question was about using a 60-Hz xfmr in Canada. A 25-Hz xfmr can be run on 60-Hz, but not vice versa.
Doug
:I'm not an engineer but it seems a transformer designed for 60 Hz would draw more current at 25 Hz (less reactance?) and produce lower voltages resulting in possible overheating and poor performance.
:Nick
:
Yes, that is true for DC, but on AC the current is constantly changing, in which case the impedence, (conbination of dc resistance and ac reactance) is what limits the current. As current is drawn from the secondary it lowers the reactance seen by the primary and the current will increase to the required level.
Bob Z
Correct, but it will still be higher than if dc was applied. It will only be saturated on part of the cycle, how much depending on how much iron is in the transformer.
No arguement that it will, in most cases, overheat, my only issue is it drawing the same current as if dc was applied. If 100 volts DC was applied with a normal resistance of only a few dc ohms on the primary it would be drawing 25-50 amps. 25Hz would be considerably lower then at (average current), but overheating would most likely take place.
Bob Z
Bob Z
:::::::Nick, what you say is substantially correct - a major issue is magnetic saturation when a xfmr is run at lower frequency than for which is was designed.
:::::::
:::::::But we understood your original question was about using a 60-Hz xfmr in Canada. A 25-Hz xfmr can be run on 60-Hz, but not vice versa.
:::::::Doug
:::::::
::::::::I'm not an engineer but it seems a transformer designed for 60 Hz would draw more current at 25 Hz (less reactance?) and produce lower voltages resulting in possible overheating and poor performance.
::::::::Nick
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::::::The inducctor is only an inductor while the magnetic lines of force are building. Once satirated. the thing becomes a resistor, with the DC resistance of the windings the only thing in the circuit to limit current.
::::::Lewis
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:::::Yes, that is true for DC, but on AC the current is constantly changing, in which case the impedence, (conbination of dc resistance and ac reactance) is what limits the current. As current is drawn from the secondary it lowers the reactance seen by the primary and the current will increase to the required level.
:::::Bob Z
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::::But, ifthe frewquency is too low, the core will saturate sometime in the cycle, and the inductor becomes a resistor, and that's when things start getting hot,
::::Lewis
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:::But, if the frequency is too low, the core will saturate sometime in the cycle, and the inductor becomes a resistor, and that's when things start getting hot,
:::Lewis
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::
::Correct, but it will still be higher than if dc was applied. It will only be saturated on part of the cycle, how much depending on how much iron is in the transformer.
::
::No arguement that it will, in most cases, overheat, my only issue is it drawing the same current as if dc was applied. If 100 volts DC was applied with a normal resistance of only a few dc ohms on the primary it would be drawing 25-50 amps. 25Hz would be considerably lower then at (average current), but overheating would most likely take place.
::Bob Z
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:OKa, this I can agree with.
:Lewis
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