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Electronic Instrument Co. Transistorized Power Supply
7/5/2009 11:13:52 AMMark Quesenberry
I am looking for a schematic for the above power supply. The model number is 1020.

I replaced four electrolytics and a couple of resistors. The voltage will only vary from 20-32 Volts, even on the 6V setting! So I can't get voltages lower than 20V. I will check the PNP transistor voltages next. Thank you in advance for your assistance.
7/5/2009 4:02:21 PMEdd














Sir Mark. . . .




Here's about all I know or can find out about it . . . with no "freebie" schema to be had currently:


EICO Model 1020 Power Supply

Provides continuously variable 0-30 vdc.

Full-wave silicon diode rectifiers. Fused primary.

Current range: 150ma from 0-12v ---200ma from 12-24v --- 300ma from 24-30v

Voltmeter range: 0-6, 0-30 v . . . Max ripple at full load: .005%

Cabinet Size: (HWD) 5" X 4" X 5 1/2" . . . Weight: 4 lbs

$19.95 (1962) $25.95 (1970)


With the units current spec's, I'm xpecting it only requiring but a single series pass transistor, it being inserted between the main power supply raw DC supply and the DC output treminal.


That power device unit probably being in a diamond shaped TO-3 housing and mounted on its heat sink. Probably an additional
lower powered transistor being tied in via darlington configuration to its base circuitry.

The most suspect might be that main power pass transistor itself , since, after all, it WAS of the "geranium" based transistor technology. Being subject to leakage or possibly even having "crashed" and having Coll-Emitter continuity. That would give your present symptoms.

Also some where down there in the regulator initialization portion, there should be a Zener diode reference to be compared against a feedback sample from the units final DC output level,

Therein, the two values are compared against WHAT your control setting mandated as being your desired output voltage, and the degree of base drive . . .or diminishment . . .is then fed to the Power pass transistor, which then corrects to that desired level.

If this was using an NPN as the pass transistor, its quite foward in its circuit design, main power supply feeds into collector of power pass transistor, base regulates to required output voltage, emitter output is the regulated voltage source then presented to the power supply + output terminal .

WITH it using a PNP transistor, the circuitry most probably is the rectified and filtered power supply feeding directly to being the actual power supply output at its + output terminal,

HOWEVER, the return negative leg terminal of the power supply is fed to the collector of the PNP power pass transistor and then the base receives its corrective drive to determine the degree of conduction from collector-emitter, with that Pass transistors emitter being connected to the negative buss of the power supply. You might say its a vairiable grounding agent of the power supply.


Try this testing first:


In order to enact an evaluaton of that 30 VDC now present on the power supply, take a separate metering and measure the DC level present. Next you load down the supply with a 100 ohm 10 watt resistor and see what the reading is then, jot down, then you lift the load and locate an ~1ufd. . . .upwards is ok. . .at 50VDC + rating capacitor. . . NON ELECTROLYTIC TYPE,(NO leakage wanted) and use it to series couple from the power supplys + output, to your meters + probe.

Then you switch the metering to its AC mode, switch on the power supply as it was, use the 100 ohm load resistor and NOW you see what the meters AC reading is. What we are wanting to know is the health of the filtering of the power supply,

If you are now getting a healthy reading of ripple under load, that alone can be the problem with the regulation circuitry not functioning as it should.

Initially . . . your metering, when unloaded was showing a "static" voltage and not necessarily a "dynamic" voltage.

(. . . . .Whut you talkin' 'bout. . . . . Willis ? ? ? )


ASIDE:

MECHANICO-ANALOGY. . . .


You see these two HUGE physical male specimens standing just in front of you, fully robed, but their massive sizing seems to tell it all.

The first runs forward, but, breaking into a labored panting before even reaching you, and then upon initially gripping your body and attempting to lift you, he crunches under the least effort and falls to the ground at your feet.. The now parted robe, then is fully revealing nothing but layer upon layer and globs of fat in the making up his "appeared" masssive profile.

By this time, the other personna has rushed forward , taken one foot and swetpt candidate 1 aside and then grabbed a shoulder and a crotch and then brought you up to shoulder height and then tossed you a good 10 feet forward. . . . .need we say that if you even had the nerve to part his robe. . . expect one rippled and muscled physique.

Character 1 was indicative of a "static" voltage. . . . . .crunched under load.

Character 2 was indicative of a "dynamic " voltage . . . .maintains under load.

I should say "maintains" under a "prescribed" load. . .as I certainly wouldn't expect the same results, should # 2's "lift" have been a Mack truck.


End of ASIDE. . .


Let that initially be phase 1 for now, and fill us in on the transistor count and their numbers, P.S. diodes, and the main filter cap values, and also, any peripheral elect caps in the regulator propers circuitry.


Looks like the supply would be limited to low power loads, with that 300 ma spec, like transistor circuitry design work.


It would be a challenge for but just a few tubes filaments, unless for battery tubes filamant supply , and with 30 VDC being fully too low for plate supply service.





73's de Edd












7/9/2009 11:08:12 AMMark Quesenberry
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:Sir Mark. . . .
:
:
:
:
:Here's about all I know or can find out about it . . . with no "freebie" schema to be had currently:
:
:
:EICO Model 1020 Power Supply
:
:Provides continuously variable 0-30 vdc.
:
:Full-wave silicon diode rectifiers. Fused primary.
:
:Current range: 150ma from 0-12v ---200ma from 12-24v --- 300ma from 24-30v
:
:Voltmeter range: 0-6, 0-30 v . . . Max ripple at full load: .005%
:
:Cabinet Size: (HWD) 5" X 4" X 5 1/2" . . . Weight: 4 lbs
:
:$19.95 (1962) $25.95 (1970)
:
:
:With the units current spec's, I'm xpecting it only requiring but a single series pass transistor, it being inserted between the main power supply raw DC supply and the DC output treminal.
:
:
: That power device unit probably being in a diamond shaped TO-3 housing and mounted on its heat sink. Probably an additional
:lower powered transistor being tied in via darlington configuration to its base circuitry.
:
:The most suspect might be that main power pass transistor itself , since, after all, it WAS of the "geranium" based transistor technology. Being subject to leakage or possibly even having "crashed" and having Coll-Emitter continuity. That would give your present symptoms.
:
:Also some where down there in the regulator initialization portion, there should be a Zener diode reference to be compared against a feedback sample from the units final DC output level,
:
:Therein, the two values are compared against WHAT your control setting mandated as being your desired output voltage, and the degree of base drive . . .or diminishment . . .is then fed to the Power pass transistor, which then corrects to that desired level.
:
:If this was using an NPN as the pass transistor, its quite foward in its circuit design, main power supply feeds into collector of power pass transistor, base regulates to required output voltage, emitter output is the regulated voltage source then presented to the power supply + output terminal .
:
:WITH it using a PNP transistor, the circuitry most probably is the rectified and filtered power supply feeding directly to being the actual power supply output at its + output terminal,
:
:HOWEVER, the return negative leg terminal of the power supply is fed to the collector of the PNP power pass transistor and then the base receives its corrective drive to determine the degree of conduction from collector-emitter, with that Pass transistors emitter being connected to the negative buss of the power supply. You might say its a vairiable grounding agent of the power supply.
:
:
:Try this testing first:
:
:
:In order to enact an evaluaton of that 30 VDC now present on the power supply, take a separate metering and measure the DC level present. Next you load down the supply with a 100 ohm 10 watt resistor and see what the reading is then, jot down, then you lift the load and locate an ~1ufd. . . .upwards is ok. . .at 50VDC + rating capacitor. . . NON ELECTROLYTIC TYPE,(NO leakage wanted) and use it to series couple from the power supplys + output, to your meters + probe.
:
:Then you switch the metering to its AC mode, switch on the power supply as it was, use the 100 ohm load resistor and NOW you see what the meters AC reading is. What we are wanting to know is the health of the filtering of the power supply,
:
:If you are now getting a healthy reading of ripple under load, that alone can be the problem with the regulation circuitry not functioning as it should.
:
:
:
:Initially . . . your metering, when unloaded was showing a "static" voltage and not necessarily a "dynamic" voltage.
:
:(. . . . .Whut you talkin' 'bout. . . . . Willis ? ? ? )
:
:
:ASIDE:
:
:MECHANICO-ANALOGY. . . .
:
:
:You see these two HUGE physical male specimens standing just in front of you, fully robed, but their massive sizing seems to tell it all.
:
:The first runs forward, but, breaking into a labored panting before even reaching you, and then upon initially gripping your body and attempting to lift you, he crunches under the least effort and falls to the ground at your feet.. The now parted robe, then is fully revealing nothing but layer upon layer and globs of fat in the making up his "appeared" masssive profile.
:
:By this time, the other personna has rushed forward , taken one foot and swetpt candidate 1 aside and then grabbed a shoulder and a crotch and then brought you up to shoulder height and then tossed you a good 10 feet forward. . . . .need we say that if you even had the nerve to part his robe. . . expect one rippled and muscled physique.
:
:Character 1 was indicative of a "static" voltage. . . . . .crunched under load.
:
:Character 2 was indicative of a "dynamic " voltage . . . .maintains under load.
:
:I should say "maintains" under a "prescribed" load. . .as I certainly wouldn't expect the same results, should # 2's "lift" have been a Mack truck.
:
:
:End of ASIDE. . .
:
:
:Let that initially be phase 1 for now, and fill us in on the transistor count and their numbers, P.S. diodes, and the main filter cap values, and also, any peripheral elect caps in the regulator propers circuitry.
:
:
:Looks like the supply would be limited to low power loads, with that 300 ma spec, like transistor circuitry design work.
:
:
:It would be a challenge for but just a few tubes filaments, unless for battery tubes filamant supply , and with 30 VDC being fully too low for plate supply service.
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd

:
:
:Edd,
Thanks for the information. The transistors are the CBS 2N256 PNP Germaniums. See other post for voltages and resistances.

Thanks again,
Mark

/Lines/blue_zig-zags.gif>


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7/6/2009 2:36:01 AMPeter G. Balazsy
Have you pulled the transistors and tested them with your ohm meter?
7/9/2009 11:04:01 AMMark Quesenberry
Yes, but before I did, I checked the bias voltages:

Q1: Ve = 0V; Vb =-0.1V; Vc= -3.96V
Q2: Ve = -3.96V; Vb = -4.09V; Vc = -29.5V

Both transistors passed the diode test on my multimeter. I checked the resistance on Q1 and Q2. On both transistors, the emitter-base junction read 450-470 Ohms, and the collector-base junction read from 335-397 Ohms. (On Q2, I was getting resistance readings when the leads were reversed; will check Q1 for the same.)

I have a strange feeling about one of the resistors I replaced. It was marked 22K Ohms, but only measured 311 Ohms. Could it be a mislabeled resistor? I may substitute a 220 Ohm and see what happens.

:Have you pulled the transistors and tested them with your ohm meter?

7/10/2009 7:25:04 PMMarv Nuce
Mark,
This is difficult wo/a diagram, but your voltages indicate that both transistors are off. Max. emitter to base voltage for a std germanium should be approx. 0.3VDC in the on state. Now I said standard germanium. A 2N301 found in some old Delco car radios will test bad in the diode mode or beta mode, but still be good. Supposedly a unique (second) diode buried in the junction. I discovered this phenominem on a "66 Vette AM/FM.

marv

:Yes, but before I did, I checked the bias voltages:
:
:Q1: Ve = 0V; Vb =-0.1V; Vc= -3.96V
:Q2: Ve = -3.96V; Vb = -4.09V; Vc = -29.5V
:
:Both transistors passed the diode test on my multimeter. I checked the resistance on Q1 and Q2. On both transistors, the emitter-base junction read 450-470 Ohms, and the collector-base junction read from 335-397 Ohms. (On Q2, I was getting resistance readings when the leads were reversed; will check Q1 for the same.)
:
:I have a strange feeling about one of the resistors I replaced. It was marked 22K Ohms, but only measured 311 Ohms. Could it be a mislabeled resistor? I may substitute a 220 Ohm and see what happens.
:
::Have you pulled the transistors and tested them with your ohm meter?

7/11/2009 7:10:44 AMEdd

















Sir Mark . . . .




Didn't get any confirmation back, on the unit, as the effect on the output voltage, with a 100 ohm 10 W resistor used as a load ?

I still don't know the design of the unit, but with the coming forth of the two transistors.
I can certainly see them being used in a darlington configuration, after your provided info having given the two common voltages that occur between the units terminals.


Indeed. . . . "geranium " units are in a different category in respect to leakage, as compared to our currently used silicon family.

I can now give you this evaluative testing technique. . .IF . . . you will use it.
(e.g.. . . .What was the voltage output from the supply when loaded ? ). . . .Can you hear me now ?


I have plotted up and attached the simplest possible utilization of two PNP germanium transistors, darlington cascaded, without any panel metering shown or current limiting glitz. . .it being basic bare bones .


In consulting the schema, consider the principal power pass transistor to be the lower unit of the two. As you can now see,I had initially described the power supply as directly feeding the + voltage straight thru to the power supply + terminal , with the regulation aspect being accomplished by the - connection of the power supply feeding over to the power pass transistor with it being a variable conduction agent in the final completion of the power loop thru to the negative node of the raw DC power supply portion.


In acquiring your full 30 VDC, almost maximum conduction is required of that main pass transistor, while, for your lower descending output voltage levels, progressively less conduction is needed.


NOW, to see if that primary power pass transistor at the bottom of the schematic is in good enough shape to meet the power supplys basic requirements in its degree of quiescent leakage and Beta / gain.


Notice where I have placed the X break in the base circuit to the above transistor. . .open the circuit. . .take the A. . .(base). . connection and run it to the emitter of its transistor. Power up the unit and DC meter across the output terminals of the power supply with the 100 ohm loading resistor still in use.

Any DC output ?. . . if so, that transistor's leakage will be excessive, so as to be used .

Considering no leakage, then tack together the two piece circuit shown to the right and inteconnect as shown, with Z going to the negative
of the raw B- supply node, the range / base current limiting 270 ohm resistor now goes to the . . . now disconnected and free
. . . base connection A of the power pass transistor and the end term of the pot goes to the power supply ground connection terminal at the right.

That set-up will now permit you to power up the set and confirm that the available base biasing from that divider pot will then let you adjust the supplys voltage output thru an adjustable voltage swing. With the units MAX output voltage, only hindered by that 270 ohms range limiting effect.


If you are responding up to this point, power down discharge and reconnect the main pass transistors base connection back as it initially was and then move on up to the driver transistor above and open its D-C connection and then use its C base connection to connect into the 270 ohm's "A" connection, which now alludes to being a "C" connection.


Hopefully, from the last test, you remember the pots position for the minimal voltage output, initially, have the pot in that position.


Power up the unit. . . .still with load and metering. . . .a slow adjustment of the pot should now also bring up the voltage, but with the additional cascaded gain of two transistors, there should be one "hair trigger" effect on the adjustment sensitivity / onset. On THIS test,I now would expect the max power supply voltage easily being attainable.

If your transistors pass both of these tests, they should be servicable in your unit, with the units primary fault still being ,existant and now possibly being in the voltage referencing / zener ? . . .or some burnt /drifted ? resistors used in the set.


Would like to know, if any more transistors are incorporated in the unit, or being exotica enough to ALSO have a front control marked or referenced as being associative with current limiting ?


Plus, . . . . .feed back this time. . .what are your results ?





73's de Edd












Rudimentary PNP Germanium power supply circuitry. . . . .bare bones




7/11/2009 5:56:07 PMMark Quesenberry
Hi Edd,
When I get a chance, I'll run the test you suggested. My latest test revealed something. I placed a 1K resistor in parallel with the 22K resistor I replaced. And guess what, the voltage level dropped from 20V down to 5V. The supply is now adjustable over a wider range. So I'm thinking that 22K resistor was a mislabeled 220 Ohm resitor instead. With a 22k in parallel with a 1k, the resistance is 956 Ohms.

I powered up this unit before replacing anything. I noticed the voltage was not stable, so that's why I recapped it. I'll keep you posted.

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:Sir Mark . . . .
:
:
:
:
:Didn't get any confirmation back, on the unit, as the effect on the output voltage, with a 100 ohm 10 W resistor used as a load ?
:
:I still don't know the design of the unit, but with the coming forth of the two transistors.
: I can certainly see them being used in a darlington configuration, after your provided info having given the two common voltages that occur between the units terminals.
:
:
:Indeed. . . . "geranium " units are in a different category in respect to leakage, as compared to our currently used silicon family.
:
:I can now give you this evaluative testing technique. . .IF . . . you will use it.
:(e.g.. . . .What was the voltage output from the supply when loaded ? ). . . .Can you hear me now ?
:
:
:I have plotted up and attached the simplest possible utilization of two PNP germanium transistors, darlington cascaded, without any panel metering shown or current limiting glitz. . .it being basic bare bones .
:
:
:In consulting the schema, consider the principal power pass transistor to be the lower unit of the two. As you can now see,I had initially described the power supply as directly feeding the + voltage straight thru to the power supply + terminal , with the regulation aspect being accomplished by the - connection of the power supply feeding over to the power pass transistor with it being a variable conduction agent in the final completion of the power loop thru to the negative node of the raw DC power supply portion.
:
:
:In acquiring your full 30 VDC, almost maximum conduction is required of that main pass transistor, while, for your lower descending output voltage levels, progressively less conduction is needed.
:
:
:NOW, to see if that primary power pass transistor at the bottom of the schematic is in good enough shape to meet the power supplys basic requirements in its degree of quiescent leakage and Beta / gain.
:
:
:Notice where I have placed the X break in the base circuit to the above transistor. . .open the circuit. . .take the A. . .(base). . connection and run it to the emitter of its transistor. Power up the unit and DC meter across the output terminals of the power supply with the 100 ohm loading resistor still in use.
:
:Any DC output ?. . . if so, that transistor's leakage will be excessive, so as to be used .
:
:Considering no leakage, then tack together the two piece circuit shown to the right and inteconnect as shown, with Z going to the negative
:of the raw B- supply node, the range / base current limiting 270 ohm resistor now goes to the . . . now disconnected and free
: . . . base connection A of the power pass transistor and the end term of the pot goes to the power supply ground connection terminal at the right.
:
:That set-up will now permit you to power up the set and confirm that the available base biasing from that divider pot will then let you adjust the supplys voltage output thru an adjustable voltage swing. With the units MAX output voltage, only hindered by that 270 ohms range limiting effect.
:
:
:If you are responding up to this point, power down discharge and reconnect the main pass transistors base connection back as it initially was and then move on up to the driver transistor above and open its D-C connection and then use its C base connection to connect into the 270 ohm's "A" connection, which now alludes to being a "C" connection.
:
:
:Hopefully, from the last test, you remember the pots position for the minimal voltage output, initially, have the pot in that position.
:
:
:Power up the unit. . . .still with load and metering. . . .a slow adjustment of the pot should now also bring up the voltage, but with the additional cascaded gain of two transistors, there should be one "hair trigger" effect on the adjustment sensitivity / onset. On THIS test,I now would expect the max power supply voltage easily being attainable.
:
:If your transistors pass both of these tests, they should be servicable in your unit, with the units primary fault still being ,existant and now possibly being in the voltage referencing / zener ? . . .or some burnt /drifted ? resistors used in the set.
:
:
:Would like to know, if any more transistors are incorporated in the unit, or being exotica enough to ALSO have a front control marked or referenced as being associative with current limiting ?
:
:
:Plus, . . . . .feed back this time. . .what are your results ?
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd

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:
:


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:Rudimentary PNP Germanium power supply circuitry. . . . .bare bones
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7/11/2009 8:56:25 PMEdd

Posted by Mark Quesenberry on 07/11/2009 17:56






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::
::
Hi Edd,
When I get a chance, I'll run the test you suggested. My latest test revealed something. I placed a 1K resistor in parallel with the 22K resistor I replaced. And guess what, the voltage level dropped from 20V down to 5V. The supply is now adjustable over a wider range. So I'm thinking that 22K resistor was a mislabeled 220 Ohm resitor instead. With a 22k in parallel with a 1k, the resistance is 956 Ohms.

I powered up this unit before replacing anything. I noticed the voltage was not stable, so that's why I recapped it. I'll keep you posted.






Sir Mark. . .




I don't have the unit to eyeball the components and circuitry, but if changing that resistor to a lower value is dropping the output voltage, that means that you are proportionatively DROPPING the drive level to the pass transistor pair and
decreasing their conduction, and that IS the direction that you want to be going .


SINCE you have the set ALREADY pulling the maximum control current that it willl ever need, I see no problem in dropping that resistor value , down to the point where the voltage adjustment is at its minumum spec.


Some simpler designs of power suplies will not reach ALL OF the way down to zero by virtue of junction loss offset.

That can be be compensated for, by the use of a counterpoise compensating refence voltage. . .it being a positive reference in the incorporation of PNP transistors. . . .or negative, if using NPN transistors as the pass elements.


And we're assuming that resistor in question is probably original. . .its case / design matching other like units in the set,
and it is stamped, instead of using color coding ?




73's de Edd




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::

::
::
::
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::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Mark . . . .
::
::
::
::
::Didn't get any confirmation back, on the unit, as the effect on the output voltage, with a 100 ohm 10 W resistor used as a load ?
::
::I still don't know the design of the unit, but with the coming forth of the two transistors.
:: I can certainly see them being used in a darlington configuration, after your provided info having given the two common voltages that occur between the units terminals.
::
::
::Indeed. . . . "geranium " units are in a different category in respect to leakage, as compared to our currently used silicon family.
::
::I can now give you this evaluative testing technique. . .IF . . . you will use it.
::(e.g.. . . .What was the voltage output from the supply when loaded ? ). . . .Can you hear me now ?
::
::
::I have plotted up and attached the simplest possible utilization of two PNP germanium transistors, darlington cascaded, without any panel metering shown or current limiting glitz. . .it being basic bare bones .
::
::
::In consulting the schema, consider the principal power pass transistor to be the lower unit of the two. As you can now see,I had initially described the power supply as directly feeding the + voltage straight thru to the power supply + terminal , with the regulation aspect being accomplished by the - connection of the power supply feeding over to the power pass transistor with it being a variable conduction agent in the final completion of the power loop thru to the negative node of the raw DC power supply portion.
::
::
::In acquiring your full 30 VDC, almost maximum conduction is required of that main pass transistor, while, for your lower descending output voltage levels, progressively less conduction is needed.
::
::
::NOW, to see if that primary power pass transistor at the bottom of the schematic is in good enough shape to meet the power supplys basic requirements in its degree of quiescent leakage and Beta / gain.
::
::
::Notice where I have placed the X break in the base circuit to the above transistor. . .open the circuit. . .take the A. . .(base). . connection and run it to the emitter of its transistor. Power up the unit and DC meter across the output terminals of the power supply with the 100 ohm loading resistor still in use.
::
::Any DC output ?. . . if so, that transistor's leakage will be excessive, so as to be used .
::
::Considering no leakage, then tack together the two piece circuit shown to the right and inteconnect as shown, with Z going to the negative
::of the raw B- supply node, the range / base current limiting 270 ohm resistor now goes to the . . . now disconnected and free
:: . . . base connection A of the power pass transistor and the end term of the pot goes to the power supply ground connection terminal at the right.
::
::That set-up will now permit you to power up the set and confirm that the available base biasing from that divider pot will then let you adjust the supplys voltage output thru an adjustable voltage swing. With the units MAX output voltage, only hindered by that 270 ohms range limiting effect.
::
::
::If you are responding up to this point, power down discharge and reconnect the main pass transistors base connection back as it initially was and then move on up to the driver transistor above and open its D-C connection and then use its C base connection to connect into the 270 ohm's "A" connection, which now alludes to being a "C" connection.
::
::
::Hopefully, from the last test, you remember the pots position for the minimal voltage output, initially, have the pot in that position.
::
::
::Power up the unit. . . .still with load and metering. . . .a slow adjustment of the pot should now also bring up the voltage, but with the additional cascaded gain of two transistors, there should be one "hair trigger" effect on the adjustment sensitivity / onset. On THIS test,I now would expect the max power supply voltage easily being attainable.
::
::If your transistors pass both of these tests, they should be servicable in your unit, with the units primary fault still being ,existant and now possibly being in the voltage referencing / zener ? . . .or some burnt /drifted ? resistors used in the set.
::
::
::Would like to know, if any more transistors are incorporated in the unit, or being exotica enough to ALSO have a front control marked or referenced as being associative with current limiting ?
::
::
::Plus, . . . . .feed back this time. . .what are your results ?
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd

::
::
::


::
::
::
::

::
::
::

::Rudimentary PNP Germanium power supply circuitry. . . . .bare bones
::
::
::
::
::

::
::
::
::
::
::
7/11/2009 9:56:56 PMBob Z
PDF of part of manual sent to Mark and Edd.
Bob Z

:
:Posted by Mark Quesenberry on 07/11/2009 17:56
:
:
:


:
:
:
:::
:::
:::
Hi Edd,
:When I get a chance, I'll run the test you suggested. My latest test revealed something. I placed a 1K resistor in parallel with the 22K resistor I replaced. And guess what, the voltage level dropped from 20V down to 5V. The supply is now adjustable over a wider range. So I'm thinking that 22K resistor was a mislabeled 220 Ohm resitor instead. With a 22k in parallel with a 1k, the resistance is 956 Ohms.
:
:I powered up this unit before replacing anything. I noticed the voltage was not stable, so that's why I recapped it. I'll keep you posted.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Mark. . .
:
:
:
:
:I don't have the unit to eyeball the components and circuitry, but if changing that resistor to a lower value is dropping the output voltage, that means that you are proportionatively DROPPING the drive level to the pass transistor pair and
:decreasing their conduction, and that IS the direction that you want to be going .
:
:
:SINCE you have the set ALREADY pulling the maximum control current that it willl ever need, I see no problem in dropping that resistor value , down to the point where the voltage adjustment is at its minumum spec.
:
:
:Some simpler designs of power suplies will not reach ALL OF the way down to zero by virtue of junction loss offset.
:
:That can be be compensated for, by the use of a counterpoise compensating refence voltage. . .it being a positive reference in the incorporation of PNP transistors. . . .or negative, if using NPN transistors as the pass elements.
:
:
:And we're assuming that resistor in question is probably original. . .its case / design matching other like units in the set,
:and it is stamped, instead of using color coding ?
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd

:
:
:


:
:
::
::
:::
:::
:::
:::

:::

:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Sir Mark . . . .
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Didn't get any confirmation back, on the unit, as the effect on the output voltage, with a 100 ohm 10 W resistor used as a load ?
:::
:::I still don't know the design of the unit, but with the coming forth of the two transistors.
::: I can certainly see them being used in a darlington configuration, after your provided info having given the two common voltages that occur between the units terminals.
:::
:::
:::Indeed. . . . "geranium " units are in a different category in respect to leakage, as compared to our currently used silicon family.
:::
:::I can now give you this evaluative testing technique. . .IF . . . you will use it.
:::(e.g.. . . .What was the voltage output from the supply when loaded ? ). . . .Can you hear me now ?
:::
:::
:::I have plotted up and attached the simplest possible utilization of two PNP germanium transistors, darlington cascaded, without any panel metering shown or current limiting glitz. . .it being basic bare bones .
:::
:::
:::In consulting the schema, consider the principal power pass transistor to be the lower unit of the two. As you can now see,I had initially described the power supply as directly feeding the + voltage straight thru to the power supply + terminal , with the regulation aspect being accomplished by the - connection of the power supply feeding over to the power pass transistor with it being a variable conduction agent in the final completion of the power loop thru to the negative node of the raw DC power supply portion.
:::
:::
:::In acquiring your full 30 VDC, almost maximum conduction is required of that main pass transistor, while, for your lower descending output voltage levels, progressively less conduction is needed.
:::
:::
:::NOW, to see if that primary power pass transistor at the bottom of the schematic is in good enough shape to meet the power supplys basic requirements in its degree of quiescent leakage and Beta / gain.
:::
:::
:::Notice where I have placed the X break in the base circuit to the above transistor. . .open the circuit. . .take the A. . .(base). . connection and run it to the emitter of its transistor. Power up the unit and DC meter across the output terminals of the power supply with the 100 ohm loading resistor still in use.
:::
:::Any DC output ?. . . if so, that transistor's leakage will be excessive, so as to be used .
:::
:::Considering no leakage, then tack together the two piece circuit shown to the right and inteconnect as shown, with Z going to the negative
:::of the raw B- supply node, the range / base current limiting 270 ohm resistor now goes to the . . . now disconnected and free
::: . . . base connection A of the power pass transistor and the end term of the pot goes to the power supply ground connection terminal at the right.
:::
:::That set-up will now permit you to power up the set and confirm that the available base biasing from that divider pot will then let you adjust the supplys voltage output thru an adjustable voltage swing. With the units MAX output voltage, only hindered by that 270 ohms range limiting effect.
:::
:::
:::If you are responding up to this point, power down discharge and reconnect the main pass transistors base connection back as it initially was and then move on up to the driver transistor above and open its D-C connection and then use its C base connection to connect into the 270 ohm's "A" connection, which now alludes to being a "C" connection.
:::
:::
:::Hopefully, from the last test, you remember the pots position for the minimal voltage output, initially, have the pot in that position.
:::
:::
:::Power up the unit. . . .still with load and metering. . . .a slow adjustment of the pot should now also bring up the voltage, but with the additional cascaded gain of two transistors, there should be one "hair trigger" effect on the adjustment sensitivity / onset. On THIS test,I now would expect the max power supply voltage easily being attainable.
:::
:::If your transistors pass both of these tests, they should be servicable in your unit, with the units primary fault still being ,existant and now possibly being in the voltage referencing / zener ? . . .or some burnt /drifted ? resistors used in the set.
:::
:::
:::Would like to know, if any more transistors are incorporated in the unit, or being exotica enough to ALSO have a front control marked or referenced as being associative with current limiting ?
:::
:::
:::Plus, . . . . .feed back this time. . .what are your results ?
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::73's de Edd

:::
:::
:::


:::
:::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::

:::Rudimentary PNP Germanium power supply circuitry. . . . .bare bones
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
7/13/2009 3:56:47 AMEdd














Sir Mark . . . .




Praise be. . . . to The Right Honorable and Esteemed. . . .Bob Zeeeeeeee. . . . in his coming up with the 1020 schema, no more stabbing at the circuit design, and looks like you also don't have to parts trace and reverse engineer a schema. . . . even though it's a quite simple circuit.



In consulting the attached schema we are seeing the designers / draftsmen dead set on having to see the placing of the active elements at the top of the schema, thus having to revert to the placement of the B+ buss at the very bottom of the schema.

The first thing that I am going to point out is the number of "2" derivative resistive parts, since you did mention the
22 k resistor , and the eventual trimming it down in value via a shunting 1K resistor and its desired effect of further reducing
the power supplys attainable lower voltage range, downwardly.

If this was a kit, we can see the two 220 ohm values and the 2k and the 22k values, all of which could be subject to possible error in their installation. I would think that the like functioning and positionally placed 220 values ended up being installed in their proper places.



That would only leave the 2K and the 22 K to be in error, if the 2k. . .R4. . ended up installed in place of the R2 neon pilot lights current limiting resistor, they would have had one VEWY BRIGHT pilot light for as long as the two components would hold up to it.



NOW if the resultant 22k resistor ended up installed in R4's position, that could certainly produce your present situation.
If built as a kit, this malfunctioning unit might have been abandoned, since most users would be wanting the presently unattainable , popular 15-12-9 -6 and 5 volt ranges from the power supply.



Here is an analysis of the power supply's complete circuitry operation, should you, or any others, need it in the future.

Start with the dirivation of the raw B+ supply of the set obtained fom the T1 seconary and its CT tapped winding feeding CR1 -CR2
configured as a Full Wave Rectifier combo then the addition of C2 for the primary filtering, that then leaves you with one raw DC supply with its positive lead zipping right across the schema bottom [Red Mark-up Buss], to end up as the main B+ terminal of the supply. It would then be wanting to feed your load that is connected across the power supply and then complete its power loop by flowing thru the top [Broken Black Mark-up Buss] to the Raw B- Buss source.

Some hindrances now present themselves in that loop, in the form of series arranged TR-1 and TR-2, they will have to be conducting in order for that closed power loop condition to be met, and their degree of conduction will also be establishing the voltage present at the power supplys output terminals.



Here is how that is accomplished:



Note that the first circuitry to be met by the output of the raw DC supply is a series voltage divider bridge that is consisting of R3--R1A--R4.

Now, of the three, R1 A is the variable element while R3 and R4 are scaling resistors that establish the desired limits of the voltage adjustment range. The R1-A wipers sample is fed to the base of TR1 and will adjust the conduction of that transistor along with the produced voltage output created at the emitter of that transistor.


NO EXTRA CHARGE ! . . .there is an additional effect created within that stage , note that there is C3 filter capacitor and its 300 ufd value, with it being placed on the base circuitry of that stage , if there is any power supply ripple present at that point., the end effect is that ripple is reduced on the pass thru output at its emitter. That is what is called a capacitance multiplier stage. . .in addition to its other functions as a series conductive stage and a regulator stage. That 300 ufd on that base is producing the filtering equivalency of one having shunted a 1500 ufd capacitor across the power supply from reference points [C] to [B].

Its roughly the 300 ufd times the Beta / gain of the transistor, and on your old 2N256, at its max current consumption involved, would be in the order of 5 X 300 ufd = 1500 ufd .

The voltage level set by the R1-A pot will then be present across the [C]-[B] test points and THEN find ITS level being sampled in the same manner via R1-B pot with its sample at the wiper being introduced to TR2's base circuit, same proceuure again with a 300 ufd across its base, by virtue of the same capacitive multiplier effect , its producing the equivalency of there being a 1500 ufd capacitor across the [B]-[D] test points. By this time you can see the only need for further filtering, solely being the placement of a small 50 ufd C5 unit right across the output terminals for decoupling and low frequency bypassing.



That brings up another aspect mentioned in the documentation for this unit. . .it is specified as a Power Supply AND Bias Supply, the qualifier there being the BIAS aspect, on connecting this supply into the grid circuitry of a receiver, one certainly doesn't want any introduced ripple or trash to be potentially amplified. I initially had given the specs for the unit and even at that time was noting that particularly impressive spec, even though I was additionally noting the units quite bucolic 300 ma max current spec.



Sooooo. . . that should fill you in on the two series connected transistors and their manner of varying their conductance to establish the voltage output on the unit by the degree of isolation provided between the power supplys negative return terminal and the raw B- buss.


Therein. . .R1-A control provides the "Coarse" voltage adjustment and then R1-B provides the "Fine" degree of adjustment.


Of the TR-1 and TR-2 transistors, TR-1 is the most critical on leakage having adverse controlling or range affectation, so the lowest leakage of the two should be used for the TR-1 position should a problem arise on attainable range.

In your case we know that the R3-R5-R6 loop seems to be presently fine in the attaining your max output voltage, via max conduction of the pass transistors, but failure to reach a lower voltage limit , in addition to the above transistor leakage aspect, would be for R4 to be yet a lower value.



Thats it for now. . ..feed back time. . . .




73's de Edd















Schematic referencing for the Eico 1020. . . . . . . .











7/13/2009 3:16:21 PMMark Quesenberry
Thanks Bob!

:PDF of part of manual sent to Mark and Edd.
:Bob Z
:
::
::Posted by Mark Quesenberry on 07/11/2009 17:56
::
::
::


::
::
::
::::
::::
::::
Hi Edd,
::When I get a chance, I'll run the test you suggested. My latest test revealed something. I placed a 1K resistor in parallel with the 22K resistor I replaced. And guess what, the voltage level dropped from 20V down to 5V. The supply is now adjustable over a wider range. So I'm thinking that 22K resistor was a mislabeled 220 Ohm resitor instead. With a 22k in parallel with a 1k, the resistance is 956 Ohms.
::
::I powered up this unit before replacing anything. I noticed the voltage was not stable, so that's why I recapped it. I'll keep you posted.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Mark. . .
::
::
::
::
::I don't have the unit to eyeball the components and circuitry, but if changing that resistor to a lower value is dropping the output voltage, that means that you are proportionatively DROPPING the drive level to the pass transistor pair and
::decreasing their conduction, and that IS the direction that you want to be going .
::
::
::SINCE you have the set ALREADY pulling the maximum control current that it willl ever need, I see no problem in dropping that resistor value , down to the point where the voltage adjustment is at its minumum spec.
::
::
::Some simpler designs of power suplies will not reach ALL OF the way down to zero by virtue of junction loss offset.
::
::That can be be compensated for, by the use of a counterpoise compensating refence voltage. . .it being a positive reference in the incorporation of PNP transistors. . . .or negative, if using NPN transistors as the pass elements.
::
::
::And we're assuming that resistor in question is probably original. . .its case / design matching other like units in the set,
::and it is stamped, instead of using color coding ?
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd

::
::
::


::
::
:::
:::
::::
::::
::::
::::

::::

::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Sir Mark . . . .
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Didn't get any confirmation back, on the unit, as the effect on the output voltage, with a 100 ohm 10 W resistor used as a load ?
::::
::::I still don't know the design of the unit, but with the coming forth of the two transistors.
:::: I can certainly see them being used in a darlington configuration, after your provided info having given the two common voltages that occur between the units terminals.
::::
::::
::::Indeed. . . . "geranium " units are in a different category in respect to leakage, as compared to our currently used silicon family.
::::
::::I can now give you this evaluative testing technique. . .IF . . . you will use it.
::::(e.g.. . . .What was the voltage output from the supply when loaded ? ). . . .Can you hear me now ?
::::
::::
::::I have plotted up and attached the simplest possible utilization of two PNP germanium transistors, darlington cascaded, without any panel metering shown or current limiting glitz. . .it being basic bare bones .
::::
::::
::::In consulting the schema, consider the principal power pass transistor to be the lower unit of the two. As you can now see,I had initially described the power supply as directly feeding the + voltage straight thru to the power supply + terminal , with the regulation aspect being accomplished by the - connection of the power supply feeding over to the power pass transistor with it being a variable conduction agent in the final completion of the power loop thru to the negative node of the raw DC power supply portion.
::::
::::
::::In acquiring your full 30 VDC, almost maximum conduction is required of that main pass transistor, while, for your lower descending output voltage levels, progressively less conduction is needed.
::::
::::
::::NOW, to see if that primary power pass transistor at the bottom of the schematic is in good enough shape to meet the power supplys basic requirements in its degree of quiescent leakage and Beta / gain.
::::
::::
::::Notice where I have placed the X break in the base circuit to the above transistor. . .open the circuit. . .take the A. . .(base). . connection and run it to the emitter of its transistor. Power up the unit and DC meter across the output terminals of the power supply with the 100 ohm loading resistor still in use.
::::
::::Any DC output ?. . . if so, that transistor's leakage will be excessive, so as to be used .
::::
::::Considering no leakage, then tack together the two piece circuit shown to the right and inteconnect as shown, with Z going to the negative
::::of the raw B- supply node, the range / base current limiting 270 ohm resistor now goes to the . . . now disconnected and free
:::: . . . base connection A of the power pass transistor and the end term of the pot goes to the power supply ground connection terminal at the right.
::::
::::That set-up will now permit you to power up the set and confirm that the available base biasing from that divider pot will then let you adjust the supplys voltage output thru an adjustable voltage swing. With the units MAX output voltage, only hindered by that 270 ohms range limiting effect.
::::
::::
::::If you are responding up to this point, power down discharge and reconnect the main pass transistors base connection back as it initially was and then move on up to the driver transistor above and open its D-C connection and then use its C base connection to connect into the 270 ohm's "A" connection, which now alludes to being a "C" connection.
::::
::::
::::Hopefully, from the last test, you remember the pots position for the minimal voltage output, initially, have the pot in that position.
::::
::::
::::Power up the unit. . . .still with load and metering. . . .a slow adjustment of the pot should now also bring up the voltage, but with the additional cascaded gain of two transistors, there should be one "hair trigger" effect on the adjustment sensitivity / onset. On THIS test,I now would expect the max power supply voltage easily being attainable.
::::
::::If your transistors pass both of these tests, they should be servicable in your unit, with the units primary fault still being ,existant and now possibly being in the voltage referencing / zener ? . . .or some burnt /drifted ? resistors used in the set.
::::
::::
::::Would like to know, if any more transistors are incorporated in the unit, or being exotica enough to ALSO have a front control marked or referenced as being associative with current limiting ?
::::
::::
::::Plus, . . . . .feed back this time. . .what are your results ?
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::73's de Edd

::::
::::
::::


::::
::::
::::
::::

::::
::::
::::

::::Rudimentary PNP Germanium power supply circuitry. . . . .bare bones
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::

::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
7/13/2009 3:14:55 PMMark Quesenberry
I received a schematic from Bob. I was right; the 22K should have been 220 Ohms. It was indeed a resistor with the wrong multiplier band. Now the voltage is down to about 2V minimum.

The range switch does not adjust to the 6V range. I'll check further to see if there's a bad switch.

Many thanks!

:
:Posted by Mark Quesenberry on 07/11/2009 17:56
:
:
:


:
:
:
:::
:::
:::
Hi Edd,
:When I get a chance, I'll run the test you suggested. My latest test revealed something. I placed a 1K resistor in parallel with the 22K resistor I replaced. And guess what, the voltage level dropped from 20V down to 5V. The supply is now adjustable over a wider range. So I'm thinking that 22K resistor was a mislabeled 220 Ohm resitor instead. With a 22k in parallel with a 1k, the resistance is 956 Ohms.
:
:I powered up this unit before replacing anything. I noticed the voltage was not stable, so that's why I recapped it. I'll keep you posted.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Mark. . .
:
:
:
:
:I don't have the unit to eyeball the components and circuitry, but if changing that resistor to a lower value is dropping the output voltage, that means that you are proportionatively DROPPING the drive level to the pass transistor pair and
:decreasing their conduction, and that IS the direction that you want to be going .
:
:
:SINCE you have the set ALREADY pulling the maximum control current that it willl ever need, I see no problem in dropping that resistor value , down to the point where the voltage adjustment is at its minumum spec.
:
:
:Some simpler designs of power suplies will not reach ALL OF the way down to zero by virtue of junction loss offset.
:
:That can be be compensated for, by the use of a counterpoise compensating refence voltage. . .it being a positive reference in the incorporation of PNP transistors. . . .or negative, if using NPN transistors as the pass elements.
:
:
:And we're assuming that resistor in question is probably original. . .its case / design matching other like units in the set,
:and it is stamped, instead of using color coding ?
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd

:
:
:


:
:
::
::
:::
:::
:::
:::

:::

:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Sir Mark . . . .
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Didn't get any confirmation back, on the unit, as the effect on the output voltage, with a 100 ohm 10 W resistor used as a load ?
:::
:::I still don't know the design of the unit, but with the coming forth of the two transistors.
::: I can certainly see them being used in a darlington configuration, after your provided info having given the two common voltages that occur between the units terminals.
:::
:::
:::Indeed. . . . "geranium " units are in a different category in respect to leakage, as compared to our currently used silicon family.
:::
:::I can now give you this evaluative testing technique. . .IF . . . you will use it.
:::(e.g.. . . .What was the voltage output from the supply when loaded ? ). . . .Can you hear me now ?
:::
:::
:::I have plotted up and attached the simplest possible utilization of two PNP germanium transistors, darlington cascaded, without any panel metering shown or current limiting glitz. . .it being basic bare bones .
:::
:::
:::In consulting the schema, consider the principal power pass transistor to be the lower unit of the two. As you can now see,I had initially described the power supply as directly feeding the + voltage straight thru to the power supply + terminal , with the regulation aspect being accomplished by the - connection of the power supply feeding over to the power pass transistor with it being a variable conduction agent in the final completion of the power loop thru to the negative node of the raw DC power supply portion.
:::
:::
:::In acquiring your full 30 VDC, almost maximum conduction is required of that main pass transistor, while, for your lower descending output voltage levels, progressively less conduction is needed.
:::
:::
:::NOW, to see if that primary power pass transistor at the bottom of the schematic is in good enough shape to meet the power supplys basic requirements in its degree of quiescent leakage and Beta / gain.
:::
:::
:::Notice where I have placed the X break in the base circuit to the above transistor. . .open the circuit. . .take the A. . .(base). . connection and run it to the emitter of its transistor. Power up the unit and DC meter across the output terminals of the power supply with the 100 ohm loading resistor still in use.
:::
:::Any DC output ?. . . if so, that transistor's leakage will be excessive, so as to be used .
:::
:::Considering no leakage, then tack together the two piece circuit shown to the right and inteconnect as shown, with Z going to the negative
:::of the raw B- supply node, the range / base current limiting 270 ohm resistor now goes to the . . . now disconnected and free
::: . . . base connection A of the power pass transistor and the end term of the pot goes to the power supply ground connection terminal at the right.
:::
:::That set-up will now permit you to power up the set and confirm that the available base biasing from that divider pot will then let you adjust the supplys voltage output thru an adjustable voltage swing. With the units MAX output voltage, only hindered by that 270 ohms range limiting effect.
:::
:::
:::If you are responding up to this point, power down discharge and reconnect the main pass transistors base connection back as it initially was and then move on up to the driver transistor above and open its D-C connection and then use its C base connection to connect into the 270 ohm's "A" connection, which now alludes to being a "C" connection.
:::
:::
:::Hopefully, from the last test, you remember the pots position for the minimal voltage output, initially, have the pot in that position.
:::
:::
:::Power up the unit. . . .still with load and metering. . . .a slow adjustment of the pot should now also bring up the voltage, but with the additional cascaded gain of two transistors, there should be one "hair trigger" effect on the adjustment sensitivity / onset. On THIS test,I now would expect the max power supply voltage easily being attainable.
:::
:::If your transistors pass both of these tests, they should be servicable in your unit, with the units primary fault still being ,existant and now possibly being in the voltage referencing / zener ? . . .or some burnt /drifted ? resistors used in the set.
:::
:::
:::Would like to know, if any more transistors are incorporated in the unit, or being exotica enough to ALSO have a front control marked or referenced as being associative with current limiting ?
:::
:::
:::Plus, . . . . .feed back this time. . .what are your results ?
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::73's de Edd

:::
:::
:::


:::
:::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::

:::Rudimentary PNP Germanium power supply circuitry. . . . .bare bones
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
7/13/2009 3:56:49 PMBob Z
I just fired mine up after digging it out of storage, I can adjust down to 0 volts and up to over 30, with no load. If you cannot adjust to zero you may have some leakage in the transistors.
Bob Z

:I received a schematic from Bob. I was right; the 22K should have been 220 Ohms. It was indeed a resistor with the wrong multiplier band. Now the voltage is down to about 2V minimum.
:
:The range switch does not adjust to the 6V range. I'll check further to see if there's a bad switch.
:
:Many thanks!
:
::
::Posted by Mark Quesenberry on 07/11/2009 17:56
::
::
::


::
::
::
::::
::::
::::
Hi Edd,
::When I get a chance, I'll run the test you suggested. My latest test revealed something. I placed a 1K resistor in parallel with the 22K resistor I replaced. And guess what, the voltage level dropped from 20V down to 5V. The supply is now adjustable over a wider range. So I'm thinking that 22K resistor was a mislabeled 220 Ohm resitor instead. With a 22k in parallel with a 1k, the resistance is 956 Ohms.
::
::I powered up this unit before replacing anything. I noticed the voltage was not stable, so that's why I recapped it. I'll keep you posted.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Mark. . .
::
::
::
::
::I don't have the unit to eyeball the components and circuitry, but if changing that resistor to a lower value is dropping the output voltage, that means that you are proportionatively DROPPING the drive level to the pass transistor pair and
::decreasing their conduction, and that IS the direction that you want to be going .
::
::
::SINCE you have the set ALREADY pulling the maximum control current that it willl ever need, I see no problem in dropping that resistor value , down to the point where the voltage adjustment is at its minumum spec.
::
::
::Some simpler designs of power suplies will not reach ALL OF the way down to zero by virtue of junction loss offset.
::
::That can be be compensated for, by the use of a counterpoise compensating refence voltage. . .it being a positive reference in the incorporation of PNP transistors. . . .or negative, if using NPN transistors as the pass elements.
::
::
::And we're assuming that resistor in question is probably original. . .its case / design matching other like units in the set,
::and it is stamped, instead of using color coding ?
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd

::
::
::


::
::
:::
:::
::::
::::
::::
::::

::::

::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Sir Mark . . . .
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Didn't get any confirmation back, on the unit, as the effect on the output voltage, with a 100 ohm 10 W resistor used as a load ?
::::
::::I still don't know the design of the unit, but with the coming forth of the two transistors.
:::: I can certainly see them being used in a darlington configuration, after your provided info having given the two common voltages that occur between the units terminals.
::::
::::
::::Indeed. . . . "geranium " units are in a different category in respect to leakage, as compared to our currently used silicon family.
::::
::::I can now give you this evaluative testing technique. . .IF . . . you will use it.
::::(e.g.. . . .What was the voltage output from the supply when loaded ? ). . . .Can you hear me now ?
::::
::::
::::I have plotted up and attached the simplest possible utilization of two PNP germanium transistors, darlington cascaded, without any panel metering shown or current limiting glitz. . .it being basic bare bones .
::::
::::
::::In consulting the schema, consider the principal power pass transistor to be the lower unit of the two. As you can now see,I had initially described the power supply as directly feeding the + voltage straight thru to the power supply + terminal , with the regulation aspect being accomplished by the - connection of the power supply feeding over to the power pass transistor with it being a variable conduction agent in the final completion of the power loop thru to the negative node of the raw DC power supply portion.
::::
::::
::::In acquiring your full 30 VDC, almost maximum conduction is required of that main pass transistor, while, for your lower descending output voltage levels, progressively less conduction is needed.
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::::NOW, to see if that primary power pass transistor at the bottom of the schematic is in good enough shape to meet the power supplys basic requirements in its degree of quiescent leakage and Beta / gain.
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::::Notice where I have placed the X break in the base circuit to the above transistor. . .open the circuit. . .take the A. . .(base). . connection and run it to the emitter of its transistor. Power up the unit and DC meter across the output terminals of the power supply with the 100 ohm loading resistor still in use.
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::::Any DC output ?. . . if so, that transistor's leakage will be excessive, so as to be used .
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::::Considering no leakage, then tack together the two piece circuit shown to the right and inteconnect as shown, with Z going to the negative
::::of the raw B- supply node, the range / base current limiting 270 ohm resistor now goes to the . . . now disconnected and free
:::: . . . base connection A of the power pass transistor and the end term of the pot goes to the power supply ground connection terminal at the right.
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::::That set-up will now permit you to power up the set and confirm that the available base biasing from that divider pot will then let you adjust the supplys voltage output thru an adjustable voltage swing. With the units MAX output voltage, only hindered by that 270 ohms range limiting effect.
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::::If you are responding up to this point, power down discharge and reconnect the main pass transistors base connection back as it initially was and then move on up to the driver transistor above and open its D-C connection and then use its C base connection to connect into the 270 ohm's "A" connection, which now alludes to being a "C" connection.
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::::Hopefully, from the last test, you remember the pots position for the minimal voltage output, initially, have the pot in that position.
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::::Power up the unit. . . .still with load and metering. . . .a slow adjustment of the pot should now also bring up the voltage, but with the additional cascaded gain of two transistors, there should be one "hair trigger" effect on the adjustment sensitivity / onset. On THIS test,I now would expect the max power supply voltage easily being attainable.
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::::If your transistors pass both of these tests, they should be servicable in your unit, with the units primary fault still being ,existant and now possibly being in the voltage referencing / zener ? . . .or some burnt /drifted ? resistors used in the set.
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::::Would like to know, if any more transistors are incorporated in the unit, or being exotica enough to ALSO have a front control marked or referenced as being associative with current limiting ?
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::::Plus, . . . . .feed back this time. . .what are your results ?
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::::73's de Edd

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::::Rudimentary PNP Germanium power supply circuitry. . . . .bare bones
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