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MAGNAVOX RADIO SWITCH REPAIR QUESTION
4/22/2009 3:06:47 PMJerry
Magnavox Radio Switch Repair Question

I have a Magnavox Radio-Phono, Model PF6722, with a radio chassis A560-01. The unit has push buttons to activate operating options. Some of these buttons do not stay depressed when pushed. Is there a method of fixing this problem? I have not tried to find a replacement part, since I do not know the part number of the part. And since the unit is nearly 40 years old, I doubt I would have much luck finding a replacement part.

Please see the following links for a picture(s) of the part.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/Jerry8C/004.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/Jerry8C/003.jpg

Thanks,
Jerry

4/22/2009 3:26:39 PMWarren
Those look to be a very common switches. They have a simple spring and guide channel. I think you just lift out the bank you can maybe see from lack of use they are just stuck up some. Use some spray cleaner but nothing oily. Work the switches and they should all work again.
4/22/2009 7:01:41 PMJerry
Warren –

Thanks for the return. The following link shows where I was able to spray cleaner on the switches. http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/Jerry8C/005.jpg

At this level of disassembly, you will notice the switches are mounted on a printed circuit card. And the card has plastic guides on each end. I could not see clearly to the bottom of the card, but I was trying to determine if this card was removable. I tried to pull on the card and it did not move. I did not want to use too much force, since I thought the card might be soldered in at the bottom. What would be your guess?

Anyway, this is where I am at this point. Now to be more specific about the switch action, when I press down to where the switch is suppose to lock in place, I can feel something like a shoulder being locked into place. And, on some switches, this shoulder feels like it might be worn where the locking action does not always take place. Is this about the best I can expect to do?

Jerry

4/22/2009 9:26:53 PMEdd











Sir Jerry:


Unitil I consulted your provided photos of your set , I was initially going into the mind set of a transverse traveling /latching bar and its locking feature, such that only one pushbutton is active at one time, and it comes unlatched as another is pressed to be engaged.

Looking at YOUR unit however, it is a MUCH later unit, a Solidified State-amus unit. . .no less. . . and those units used

(after you got them shown with your LAST photo on the second posting) seem to be either Schadow branded switch or else they are using a later “knock off” variant of it.

I created a blow-up of that type of switch, and was tryng to keep any referencing mark-up clutter to a minimum, since its main area of concerned interest is in such fine detail.
Referring to the illustration at the bottom now, I put a “burple” circle around the prime area of interest with the actual latching mechanism being in its very center.

There are three basic aspects to the latching mechanism:
Initially there is the green reference coil spring which presses outward on the square metal stop that clips into a groove in the switch shaft, note that the spring stops and rests against it with a continual outward pressure being exerted upon the switch shaft.


Note part (2) which is the black piece of small spring steel stock (phosphor bronze on some versions)
That is re drawn below the pic, with red reference dots placed upon both pieces, such that you can easier see its mechanical positioning within the switch mechanics.


That black part (2) is held on its proper position by the OTHER end of the prior mentioned spring slipping over the right half of it, covering a portion of it, and thus holding it down.


Now, how does it work ? Well that is actually dependent upon a special grooved pattern that is machined with in that switch shaft at the area in the center of the circle. The item (2) is fixed in position at its right pin end BUT CAN pivot about on its axis, AS the left pin side will be “waggling” from side to side in following that grooved path that I mentioned being within the shaft center.

At one extreme limit of travel, the movable #2 pin end will come to rest and latch into position into an inset within that grooving.


The next time you press the switch shaft, the pin will slip to the side of that holding inset rest and then the outside compression spring makes it return al l l l of the way to the bottom of that grooving and be in its other latched position.

You see the basic mechanics now, so use a BRIGHT hi intensity lamp and inspect the unit, and see if there is not some cruddy built up deposit of aged, yellowed “Lubriplate” residue which is impeding the free lateral and traveling of #2, as well as clogging up the “grooving” path.

I usually use an “acid brush” and denatured alcohol for cleaning out of the crud and the grooves and put Dow Corning Z-5 grease back within the mechanics, as I want a half life of 50 years before another required teardown. The actual switch contact mechanism at the switches rear is actually quite reliable.

Plus, those switch mechanisms have capability of quite a dense switching action within a small area of real estate . . .e.g. the shown unit is a 4PDT unit, I have seen them made in up to 12PDT units.


Plus they were designed with dual contact options, the slotted connections the top for use as wire connection terminals or the pins at the bottom for wiring into a PCB, which yours is using.

However, I ocassionally see a wire or two sometimes routed to those top terminals, so that it can addtionally be included in the connection mix.

Lastly, I have also seen a cheapening of that reliable basic mechanism, with a strip of plastic (blue?) in its replacing of that pivoting spring wire (2)piece.




Switch Mechanics Photo:












73's de Edd







4/23/2009 9:55:48 AMJerry

Edd –
Appreciate your detailed response. Now to your comments:

“Unitil I consulted your provided photos of your set , I was initially going into the mind set of a transverse traveling /latching bar and its locking feature, such that only one pushbutton is active at one time, and it comes unlatched as another is pressed to be engaged.”

As you look at my last photo, the four switches on the left side are active at one time and become unlatched as another is engaged. The four switches on the right of the photo work independently. It is those switches that I think work as you explained. However, it’s the left side switches that are the problem.

I can only access the switches in the position you see in the photo since the card they are mounted on I think is soldered in. I did clean the switches with a spray cleaner called Miller-Stephenson (MS-230) Contact Re-Nu that contains no lubricant. Because of the switches location, it is difficult to examine them closely. So, I can clean (or spray) and assume I am doing some good.

Anyway, with clarifying the type of switch I do have, do you have any other comments?

Thanks,
Jerry

4/23/2009 6:55:36 PMEdd










Sir Jerry:




As you look at my last photo, the four switches on the left side are active. . .sic. . .(only one). . .at one time, and become unlatched as another is engaged. The four switches on the right of the photo work independently. It is those switches that I think work as you explained.


Well after a bit of NASA enhancement technique along with , Digital-dithering-averaging-supposition, I now come up with your photo view, as is now provided.

I do see that the 4 switches on the left have been upgraded from Schadow's prior use of a blue styrene
plastic tab, up to a hardy white Delrin plastic part (it is used in place of the pivoting spring wire), as is now seen on the four LEFT switches.
Using the [RED] referencing lines.

The four on the RIGHT are using the exact pivoting spring wire part which I described,
( [YELLOW] referencing lines, of which, the [RED #1] seems to be the most visible ).

Also you say that they are all working O.K., whereas the [MAGENTA] referencing lines to the frontal springs reveal that areas frontal springs are the ones in the worst corrosive shape. . .particularly [A].


However, it’s the left side switches that are the problem.
Some of these buttons do not stay depressed when pushed.


Since it is solely the four on the LEFT side of the bank, and individually, when trying then one at a time,
does it seem to be that possibly one switch is the problem child, with the other three, repetitively latching and unlatching as they should ?


I can only access the switches in the position you see in the photo since the card they are mounted on I think is soldered in. I did clean the switches with a spray cleaner called Miller-Stephenson (MS-230) Contact Re-Nu that contains no lubricant. Because of the switches location, it is difficult to examine them closely. So, I can clean (or spray) and assume I am doing some good.




I can certainly see your cramped quarters that the switches are mounted in.
For the four on the left to be in a “only one latches in---three are popped out” situation, there certainly has to be a side to side lateral mechanical coupling medium, be it a very small metal plate /shim / wire.



In those cramped quarters I would have to be using my small dental mirror and that STRONG hi intensity light for inspecting that mechanical situation. It could be located in 4 possible lateral positions around the switches in my previous ”circle reference” area .
If you look at all of the switches you will see that there is a metal rail to the front and another one just behind it that runs the length of the switch bank and I remember it as being in a square U bend with the bend being at the bottom of the form. All of the compression springs are pressing into the front rail, whereas the rear rail is set back about ~1/4--- 3/8 inch for accommodating the normal side mounting ears that those switches use in single mount situations. In this case you can see tabs at the top that are skewed 45 degrees for holding the switches in a vertical mounting restraint.

If a micro mirror view will show it, see if the mystery interconnect mechanics might be hidden down within that channel, if not visible outside of the rails, on their other two sides.




I probably have tech info for that set in my SAMUELS 1473-4, 1574-3, 1583-4 or 1453-4, but I surely think that they will NOT be giving a photo of any high detail, such as we now have.
That old info is now storage archived at “The mule barn” and will not be out there ‘til next month and will check out, but don’t expect much relevant mechanical info / photos to be therein.


BTW on re-referring to the photo below:

With you then looking at the very extreme left switch and then looking downward-left to the series of solder connections,on that PCB. . . .or . . .how you say. . ."card". . . there is a cluster of 7 joints at extreme left, be sure to check the extreme left joint for a "floating" "cold solder" "ring joint", and possibly, the one just to its right. . . .the five to the right look Mil spec.
.




73's de Edd









Photo Referencing:






4/23/2009 7:00:34 PM. . . . .Margin Reformat










Sir Jerry:






As you look at my last photo, the four switches on the left side are active. . .sic. . .(only one). . .at one time, and become unlatched as another
is engaged. The four switches on the right of the photo work independently. It is those switches that I think work as you explained.




Well after a bit of NASA enhancement technique along with , Digital-dithering-averaging-supposition, I now come up with your photo view, as is now provided.

I do see that the 4 switches on the left have been upgraded from Schadow's prior use of a blue styrene
plastic tab, up to a hardy white Delrin plastic part (it is used in place of the pivoting spring wire), as is now seen on the four LEFT switches.
Using the [RED] referencing lines.

The four on the RIGHT are using the exact pivoting spring wire part which I described,
( [YELLOW] referencing lines, of which, the [RED #1] seems to be the most visible ).

Also you say that they are all working O.K., whereas the [MAGENTA] referencing lines to the frontal springs reveal that areas frontal springs are the ones in the worst corrosive shape. . .particularly [A].


However, it’s the left side switches that are the problem.
Some of these buttons do not stay depressed when pushed.


Since it is solely the four on the LEFT side of the bank, and individually, when trying then one at a time,
does it seem to be that possibly one switch is the problem child, with the other three, repetitively latching and unlatching as they should ?


I can only access the switches in the position you see in the photo since the card they are mounted on I think is soldered in. I did clean the switches with a spray cleaner called Miller-Stephenson (MS-230) Contact Re-Nu that contains no lubricant. Because of the switches location, it is difficult to examine them closely. So, I can clean (or spray) and assume I am doing some good.




I can certainly see your cramped quarters that the switches are mounted in.
For the four on the left to be in a “only one latches in---three are popped out” situation, there certainly has to be a side to side lateral mechanical coupling medium, be it a very small metal plate /shim / wire.



In those cramped quarters I would have to be using my small dental mirror and that STRONG hi intensity light for inspecting that mechanical situation. It could be located in 4 possible lateral positions around the switches in my previous ”circle reference” area .
If you look at all of the switches you will see that there is a metal rail to the front and another one just behind it that runs the length of the switch bank and I remember it as being in a square U bend with the bend being at the bottom of the form. All of the compression springs are pressing into the front rail, whereas the rear rail is set back about ~1/4--- 3/8 inch for accommodating the normal side mounting ears that those switches use in single mount situations. In this case you can see tabs at the top that are skewed 45 degrees for holding the switches in a vertical mounting restraint.

If a micro mirror view will show it, see if the mystery interconnect mechanics might be hidden down within that channel, if not visible outside of the rails, on their other two sides.




I probably have tech info for that set in my SAMUELS 1473-4, 1574-3, 1583-4 or 1453-4, but I surely think that they will NOT be giving a photo of any high detail, such as we now have.
That old info is now storage archived at “The mule barn” and will not be out there ‘til next month and will check out, but don’t expect much relevant mechanical info / photos to be therein.


BTW on re-referring to the photo below:

With you then looking at the very extreme left switch and then looking downward-left to the series of solder connections,on that PCB. . . .or . . .how you say. . ."card". . . there is a cluster of 7 joints at extreme left, be sure to check the extreme left joint for a "floating" "cold solder" "ring joint", and possibly, the one just to its right. . . .the five to the right look Mil spec.
.




73's de Edd









Photo Referencing:






4/23/2009 8:14:38 PMJerry
Edd –

“Since it is solely the four on the LEFT side of the bank, and individually, when trying then one at a time, does it seem to be that possibly one switch is the problem child, with the other three, repetitively latching and unlatching as they should ?”

Sorry, they all seem to be a problem, except possibly the very far left one usually works most of the time.

Now, with your excellent explanation, I don’t really see how I can do much in such tight quarters. And, even if I could access the switches, I’m not sure what I would do. I think to do any type of repair on the switches would mean removing the PCB from the main motherboard, which is another level of repair I would need to think about.

However, as a side question, do you think replacement switches can be purchased? If they could, I might consider a radio repairman to replace them for me.

Jerry

4/25/2009 5:41:43 PMEdd











After looking thru my WELL stocked Junque Box items , I was only able to find ~36 of those switches, but with all of
them being 4PDT configurations, as well as multiple 2PDT single units and I was certainly hoping for a
ganged unit.


No luck !, but I did remember a Console Professional Audio Mixer Console that used such in its RF
switching section. Now, the amount of switching that unit has been subjected to will make your units
degree of use, pale and paltry by its comparison. HOWEVER this unit still works FINE, with both its
latching and switch contact action integrity included.


That unit was retired, when another unit with solid state switching and other bells and whistles
superseded its use.


It happens to have a cluster of 5 switches. . . . . resplendent with their ganged latching switch action.
I have now examined its manner of operation and now will define it, such that you can now check
out your unit more fully.


My prior suplied info was being solely dependent upon experiences back in the 70’s. . . .quite a memory feat after total dis association approaching ~39 years.



Refer to three main points of reference below. . . . and see initially:


[A]:

CHICKEN LITTLE WAS RIGHT !. . . . indeed. . . . the secret doth lie down deep within the aforementioned square “U” channel in the form of a small latching plate that moves laterally from side to side to accomplish its action.

The draw up shows a view of the plate as one might see certain portions of, when peering down into
the channel, as well as the side view of the folded up tabs that actually perform the action, with the
bottom plate merely shifting , side to side, if being activated.


The colored linking lines lets one fully intra-compare the mechanical drawing to the actual photo of the
switch assembly and its internal layout.


[B]:

A tab on the right side of the cluster is having a small compression spring slipped over it and the
springs right half pressing against the switch housing. The resultant effect is the whole slide assembly
normally pressure shifted to the left.


[C]:

A taking of a switch and examining its internals, reveals the center switch core having the construction as is shown with a key slot at the bottom side--- a ramp molded into the shaft--- and
final key slot at the top side.

The single blue line reference shows the manner in which a switch latching tab would initially rest
down within a slot.

Note that all of the switches are normally continually being pressed outwards by each switches frontal compression
spring.

Should that particular switch now be pressed down, the latching tab would start riding the sloping
ramp such that the whole attached latching plate is shifted to the right, THEN, at the top of the ramp the
tab falls down within the slot and movement stops, that locks the switch in place.
There the switch will remain. . . . .UNLESS. . .another switch is pressed, in which case THAT switches
tab will start riding up ITS ramp and moving ITS tab to the right , until the plate shifts so far that the
LATCHED switch’s tab snaps out if its slot and ITS compression spring snaps the switch to an open and
released position. That same latching action is now being engaged by the second activated switch.

Repeat the same procedure for any additional switch being pressed in.

There. . . . you now have its full modus operandi.



Troubleshooting:



Is the latching bar fully sliding free laterally ?

Is the small compression spring on the right half of the bank present and presenting proper tensioning
to drive the latching bar fully to the left limit ?

Any old lube present . . . .solidified. . .and gumming up the free moment of the mechanism ?


I mention this now, after detailing the latch mechanism, as I feel that prior attention just might have
been mainly directed to the actual CONTACT switching mechanism to the CENTER and REAR of the switch
cluster. The latch action, is actually being accomplished down within that frontal channel.

Observations:


Starting with switch [ 1 ] being latched.
In initial testing of that unit, further press the switch inwards and expect an ~1/8 in additional
movement inwards with only the further “clacking” noise of the latch bar shifting to the right.


Press switch [ 2 ] and then at about 1/8 inch down in its travel, hear the solid snapping sound of
prior switch [ 1 ] coming unlatched, and then, with further downward pressure on switch [ 2 ] hear
another solid snapping sound as ITS latching tab falls into its locking tab.

That will now results in the [ 2 ] switch as now being the designated latched unit. . . . .etc . . .
on down the bank of switches being tested.






MECHANICS OF A SCHADOW FAMILY. . . . . LATCHED SWITCH ASSEMBLY










73's de Edd







4/27/2009 6:04:41 PMJerry
Edd –
Thanks for the additional information. At this point I need to decide if I want to try and disassemble this unit further and examine the switches. That task is not straight-forward.

I am inclined to seek out a competent repairman to do this for me and trust his skills to proceed with corrective action.

Again, your contribution was valuable and I appreciate the time you spent with me.

Regards,
Jerry



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