http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/496/M0024496.htm

:http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/496/M0024496.htm

Where do C18,19,20,21 negative sides connect to.
Chassis Ground?

This set has some White "chalky-like" regular caps. Are these ceramic caps? They resemble about a 1 inch stubby crayon. (There is for instance a 220K 100 mmf)
As well as larger caps like .005 and a dual .0001 mfd.

Three of the caps have a wire wound around one end
a couple of times. I have to replace C11 (470K .005) like this.
Should I just wind the wire around so it does the
same thing on the new replacement?

Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?

:Where do C18,19,20,21 negative sides connect to.
:Chassis Ground?

Yes all negs from those c18-21 caps go to chassis ground... as does the CT of the transformer 2ndary.

btw... if you put a #47 lamp or 1/8amp fuse in series with the CT to ground you'll protect that transformer from damage if that 6X4 rectifier ever fails.

Thanks Peter
Does anyone have any answer to my two other questions? I can email a photo if you need to see
these caps.
Bob

This set has some White "chalky-like" regular caps. Are these ceramic caps? They resemble about a 1 inch stubby white crayon. Stamped in black there is for instance a 220K 100 mmf
As well as larger caps like .005 and a dual .0001 mfd.

Three of the caps have a wire wound around one end
a couple of times. I have to replace C11 (470K .005) like this.
Should I just wind the wire around so it does the
same thing on the new replacement?

Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?

: This set has some White "chalky-like" regular caps. Are these ceramic caps? They resemble about a 1 inch stubby white crayon. Stamped in black there is for instance a 220K 100 mmf
:As well as larger caps like .005 and a dual .0001 mfd.
:
:Three of the caps have a wire wound around one end
:a couple of times. I have to replace C11 (470K .005) like this.
:Should I just wind the wire around so it does the
:same thing on the new replacement?
:
:Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?

Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
Bill

:: This set has some White "chalky-like" regular caps. Are these ceramic caps? They resemble about a 1 inch stubby white crayon. Stamped in black there is for instance a 220K 100 mmf
::As well as larger caps like .005 and a dual .0001 mfd.
::
::Three of the caps have a wire wound around one end
::a couple of times. I have to replace C11 (470K .005) like this.
::Should I just wind the wire around so it does the
::same thing on the new replacement?
::
::Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?
:
:Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
:Bill

Sorry, question on does it denote anything...I speculate the symbol was developed somewhat as representative of the construction of capacitor, the anode and cathode.
Bill

Thanks for the explaination. Now I will see if I can remember that :O) I know I have seen it in a few other
schematics I have worked on..
But I am still wondering if in replacing one of the
"white" ceramic caps...that has a lead wound around it and going to ground is necessary when I replace it. SHould I just wind it around the same amount of times and keep it basically the same? I do not know what that winding does..?
Bob

::
::Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?
:
:Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
:Bill
:

:Thanks for the explaination. Now I will see if I can remember that :O) I know I have seen it in a few other
:schematics I have worked on..
: But I am still wondering if in replacing one of the
:"white" ceramic caps...that has a lead wound around it and going to ground is necessary when I replace it. SHould I just wind it around the same amount of times and keep it basically the same? I do not know what that winding does..?

Bob, you have some multi units there. For instance, C11 and R13 have same housing. One lead goes to pin 1 or 7, doesn't matter, of 6AQ5. The other lead goes to Pin 7 of the 6AT6. C11 is coupling cap. The lead wound around is just the ground lead for R13. Look at schematic. I'm not sure you need to replace it (C11/R13). I would take some measurements. If one and/or both are bad, use individual parts and follow the schematic. Likewise the other dual parts: C2/R2, C7A/C7B/R8, C9/R11, and C10/R12. Good luck.
Bill
:Bob
:
:::
:::Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?
::
::Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
::Bill
::

Bill,
How do you tell that they are multi-units by looking at the schematic or don't you? This is new for me. I've not run across a Resistor/Capacitor combined before...that's crazy :O) When I first saw them on the chassis I thought it looked that way but thought no that couldn't be could it.. but thanks now I will go and replace the R-13 since I only replaced C11. I think the rest are ok.
I learn something new in every set I get into. :O)
thanks, Bob

:Bob, you have some multi units there. For instance, C11 and R13 have same housing. One lead goes to pin 1 or 7, doesn't matter, of 6AQ5. The other lead goes to Pin 7 of the 6AT6. C11 is coupling cap. The lead wound around is just the ground lead for R13. Look at schematic. I'm not sure you need to replace it (C11/R13). I would take some measurements. If one and/or both are bad, use individual parts and follow the schematic. Likewise the other dual parts: C2/R2, C7A/C7B/R8, C9/R11, and C10/R12. Good luck.
:Bill
::Bob
::
::::
::::Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?
:::
:::Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
:::Bill
:::

:Bill,
:How do you tell that they are multi-units by looking at the schematic or don't you? This is new for me. I've not run across a Resistor/Capacitor combined before...that's crazy :O) When I first saw them on the chassis I thought it looked that way but thought no that couldn't be could it.. but thanks now I will go and replace the R-13 since I only replaced C11. I think the rest are ok.
:I learn something new in every set I get into. :O)
:thanks, Bob
:
Philco often had resistor / capacitor combinations in their bakelite caps. I have missed more than one in a rebuld.
Jon.
:
:
::Bob, you have some multi units there. For instance, C11 and R13 have same housing. One lead goes to pin 1 or 7, doesn't matter, of 6AQ5. The other lead goes to Pin 7 of the 6AT6. C11 is coupling cap. The lead wound around is just the ground lead for R13. Look at schematic. I'm not sure you need to replace it (C11/R13). I would take some measurements. If one and/or both are bad, use individual parts and follow the schematic. Likewise the other dual parts: C2/R2, C7A/C7B/R8, C9/R11, and C10/R12. Good luck.
::Bill
:::Bob
:::
:::::
:::::Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?
::::
::::Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
::::Bill
::::

:Bill,
:How do you tell that they are multi-units by looking at the schematic or don't you? This is new for me. I've not run across a Resistor/Capacitor combined before...that's crazy :O) When I first saw them on the chassis I thought it looked that way but thought no that couldn't be could it.. but thanks now I will go and replace the R-13 since I only replaced C11. I think the rest are ok.
:I learn something new in every set I get into. :O)
:thanks, Bob

How do you tell by the schematic? You can't by the one you are using. Like Marv I first thought you were talking about a "gimmick" but these are usually indicated on schematic. I finally woke up after reading your post over, over, etc. You indicated an ohms reading with cap value. I attributed that to whatever...you know. I never thought the caps were ceramic as you addressed them as "chalky." That's where pictures should have been introduced. I pulled SAMS 128-12 and checked the parts list and schematic. The SAMS data is as I stated about the combo units. The one on this site is apparently wrong (now) as you have confirmed about the 470K. I had thought, little disappointed, there should be dotted lines around the combo units on the schematic in SAMS at least. So not knowing when and if that is correct assumption won't go there. I will send you a copy of SAMS later in the day. Be sure you have posted an email. Anyone else wanting a copy let me know.
Bill
:
:
:
::Bob, you have some multi units there. For instance, C11 and R13 have same housing. One lead goes to pin 1 or 7, doesn't matter, of 6AQ5. The other lead goes to Pin 7 of the 6AT6. C11 is coupling cap. The lead wound around is just the ground lead for R13. Look at schematic. I'm not sure you need to replace it (C11/R13). I would take some measurements. If one and/or both are bad, use individual parts and follow the schematic. Likewise the other dual parts: C2/R2, C7A/C7B/R8, C9/R11, and C10/R12. Good luck.
::Bill
:::Bob
:::
:::::
:::::Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?
::::
::::Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
::::Bill
::::

Bill,
I can send you or anyone some pictures... I have taken some. it just takes so much time to try to post them here. wish it were easier to post photos. and yes I treated one of the caps as a gimmick too but will remedy that now.

Bill,
::How do you tell that they are multi-units by looking at the schematic or don't you? This is new for me. I've not run across a Resistor/Capacitor combined before...that's crazy :O) When I first saw them on the chassis I thought it looked that way but thought no that couldn't be could it.. but thanks now I will go and replace the R-13 since I only replaced C11. I think the rest are ok.
::I learn something new in every set I get into. :O)
::thanks, Bob
:
:How do you tell by the schematic? You can't by the one you are using. Like Marv I first thought you were talking about a "gimmick" but these are usually indicated on schematic. I finally woke up after reading your post over, over, etc. You indicated an ohms reading with cap value. I attributed that to whatever...you know. I never thought the caps were ceramic as you addressed them as "chalky." That's where pictures should have been introduced. I pulled SAMS 128-12 and checked the parts list and schematic. The SAMS data is as I stated about the combo units. The one on this site is apparently wrong (now) as you have confirmed about the 470K. I had thought, little disappointed, there should be dotted lines around the combo units on the schematic in SAMS at least. So not knowing when and if that is correct assumption won't go there. I will send you a copy of SAMS later in the day. Be sure you have posted an email. Anyone else wanting a copy let me know.
:Bill
::
::
::
:::Bob, you have some multi units there. For instance, C11 and R13 have same housing. One lead goes to pin 1 or 7, doesn't matter, of 6AQ5. The other lead goes to Pin 7 of the 6AT6. C11 is coupling cap. The lead wound around is just the ground lead for R13. Look at schematic. I'm not sure you need to replace it (C11/R13). I would take some measurements. If one and/or both are bad, use individual parts and follow the schematic. Likewise the other dual parts: C2/R2, C7A/C7B/R8, C9/R11, and C10/R12. Good luck.
:::Bill
::::Bob
::::
::::::
::::::Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?
:::::
:::::Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
:::::Bill
:::::

Bill
I think the resistor "mate" to C11 is actually R-10 not R-13. I broke off the white stuff and see that the resistor code is
Yellow Violet Yellow....
I cannot see any indication that these parts are in the same housing from the schematic but they are
marked so you can tell.
Bob

.... For instance, C11 and R13 have same housing. One lead goes to pin 1 or 7, doesn't matter, of 6AQ5. The other lead goes to Pin 7 of the 6AT6. C11 is coupling cap. The lead wound around is just the ground lead for R13. Look at schematic. I'm not sure you need to replace it (C11/R13). I would take some measurements. If one and/or both are bad, use individual parts and follow the schematic. Likewise the other dual parts: C2/R2, C7A/C7B/R8, C9/R11, and C10/R12. Good luck.
:Bill
::Bob
::
::::
::::Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?
:::
:::Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
:::Bill
:::

Bob,
The cap with a wire wound around it is a "gimmick" series resonant circuit. Rumor has it that it was used to trap some Maritime frequency that caused interfrence. I found one in the filament circuit of a Zenith AC/DC set, but docs stated it was tuned near the IF frequency of 455kHz. Go figure!!

marv

:Thanks for the explaination. Now I will see if I can remember that :O) I know I have seen it in a few other
:schematics I have worked on..
: But I am still wondering if in replacing one of the
:"white" ceramic caps...that has a lead wound around it and going to ground is necessary when I replace it. SHould I just wind it around the same amount of times and keep it basically the same? I do not know what that winding does..?
:Bob
:
:::
:::Do the schematic drawings for the negative filter cap ends denote anything different with it's forked like end to the ground symbol?
::
::Bob, that's one of the symbols used for wet electrolytics. The individual values for the lugs are differentiated by the small triangle, square, and part circle symbols. These smaller symbols will be near the lugs as well on the outside with value and voltage. I don't know if that capacitor symbol was ever adopted by EIA but some did use it...yours makes point.
::Bill
::

The capacitors in white ceramic cylinders are paper caps. I am not sure why on earth anyone would go through the expense of enclosing paper caps in ceramic, but perhaps their belief was that if they sealed the cap really well, it'd actually last a long time. Many methods were tried. All failed. At very least you will want to test the caps for leakage. Leakage in the millions of ohms can throw off AVC and grid circuits. However, if you wish, you can also replace them all with new metalized film units, which take up about the same amount of space and are far more reliable. It's up to you. I have plenty of sets where these caps still work well, but I have always had to replace at least a few of them.

T.

Not in this set Marv. These are those dual cap/resistors and te "extra" lead is the resistor
end in this case I think. These are not those wax
caps that have the black wire insulation on them
wound around them. I have seen those before but good
to know that you really do not need that winding on those wax ones too. If you want to see a picture of what I am talking about I can send you a photo.
Bob

:Bob,
:The cap with a wire wound around it is a "gimmick" series resonant circuit. Rumor has it that it was used to trap some Maritime frequency that caused interfrence. I found one in the filament circuit of a Zenith AC/DC set, but docs stated it was tuned near the IF frequency of 455kHz. Go figure!!
:
:marv
:

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:
:
:
:

: : : : : : : : : : : : : : :Relevant to this attached Weeeeeel –Cox Gay info: : : : I initially put the [YELLOW] circle markups on, to point out those :C5 and C6 .01. . . .Black-body-Black-tip-Orange- Spot. . . hollow tubular ceramic capacitors with their radial leads. : :Those leads are being wrapped around akin to the same manner in which old dog-bon-i-fer resistors used it in interfacing to the resistive block. In these caps construction, they can solder onto the tinned external coating and then have an insulative over coating of paint. : :There is also a good view of that style of ceramic cap at the top of the unit, also [YELLOW] circled. : : : : :Looks like you might have to positively confirm the number of those combo res-cap units for us.. . . I seem to be seeing 5 :units. . . .of which I can certainly NAIL two units in the [RED] markups, and the other units numbers are not having their :numbering visible, you can further confirm and assign those three units. : :On the units “tweet filter”, what you are having there is two ceramic caps (C7-8), externally side by side, with their common :ground connection being in the center of the external unit and an enclosed 47 K (R7) resistor, as is being shown. : : : :That was the center unit of the three red enclosed units illustration. : :The next illustration to the right is the plate load resistor and HF bypassing capacitor for the plate of the 6AT6 1st AF amp. : : :Now. . .you confirm the last three. . . . all ‘ya gotta’ do is track down their wiring node termini, with that [ORANGE] referenced unit to :the right, possibly being the coupling unit of audio to the 1st Grid of the unit AF output. : : : :If that actually is one of those type of units up near the oscillator, the last [MAGENTA] marked reference is certainly close :enough to be the RC components used in the osc 1st grid circuitry, but I suspicion the C element therein, to be different in the :ceramic temp coefficient construction, to perform with equal or better stability characteristics. . .such as we usually see by :the utilization of a silver mica in that application slot. : : :Read that as I would tend to leave that unit alone. . . . .IN ACTUALITY. . . .I would probably leave ALL of those units in :the unit, if their companion resistive element is in specs . :Plus, additionally, I would also conduct a DC leakage test on the capacitive elements. Those types ceramics are QUITE trouble :free, in that respect. : : : :The only other enclosed referencing is the Canned Electrolytic cap, which. . . . . . .as Sir Bill also said . . . . . .is using Post : :Neanderthal------Pre Cro Magnon schematic symbolization, akin to a wet cell electrolytic. : : :One section being on the B+ and then one unit on the Sub-B+ and then one on the Sub-Sub B+, with the final lower voltage rated :unit, being used for the cathode bypassing of the Audio Output amp. : : :Hmmmmm, I see that unit seems to be using one of those HEAVY duty " Mour Pole Fotors". : : : : : : : : :73's de Edd : : : : :

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If this comes thru LARGE enough...it's the SAMS schematic dated 3-51. Sent to Bob.
Bill

Edd,
What do you have there?? One of every vintage electronic piece ever manufactured plus full
detailed ski-matic info for each as well? Not
to mention all the doctorin-up you do with them.
I now have about 10-12 pages of great information to
add to my single schematic on this 1J10 to pour over
for the next few daze. Thanks Edd and Bill. No
doubt I will be back with more questons... This unit
does not have a mic and I have blank records on the
way from kind Mr.eBay. He has "everything" Too :O)
Bob E