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Philco 52 restoration..cap block question
3/24/2009 3:02:01 AMG. Berg
Hi all I am restoring a Philco 52. It has a block of caps (Philco part # 03915 cap values are .1,.5,.25,.5,.15 )The wires comming out of the block are usually color coded making the job easy. In this case the wires are coded in tar and I can't make out color on wires. Plus the schematic does not give values..just the placement of caps by virtue of a number(23 on schematic) My question is..could I just replace all with .5 values or will this effect preformance??
3/24/2009 8:52:56 AMBill G.
:Hi all I am restoring a Philco 52. It has a block of caps (Philco part # 03915 cap values are .1,.5,.25,.5,.15 )The wires comming out of the block are usually color coded making the job easy. In this case the wires are coded in tar and I can't make out color on wires. Plus the schematic does not give values..just the placement of caps by virtue of a number(23 on schematic) My question is..could I just replace all with .5 values or will this effect preformance??

Replacing them all with 0.5 will likely cause problems. This is especailly true in teh audio section. There wrong size capacitors will cause distortion in the audio.

Best Regards,

Bill Grimm

3/24/2009 8:01:32 PMG. BerG Thanks Bill
Thanks Bill...I will have to some-how clean wires from tar ...hmmmmmm


::Hi all I am restoring a Philco 52. It has a block of caps (Philco part # 03915 cap values are .1,.5,.25,.5,.15 )The wires comming out of the block are usually color coded making the job easy. In this case the wires are coded in tar and I can't make out color on wires. Plus the schematic does not give values..just the placement of caps by virtue of a number(23 on schematic) My question is..could I just replace all with .5 values or will this effect preformance??
:
:Replacing them all with 0.5 will likely cause problems. This is especailly true in teh audio section. There wrong size capacitors will cause distortion in the audio.
:
:Best Regards,
:
:Bill Grimm

3/24/2009 8:04:42 PMLewis L
::Hi all I am restoring a Philco 52. It has a block of caps (Philco part # 03915 cap values are .1,.5,.25,.5,.15 )The wires comming out of the block are usually color coded making the job easy. In this case the wires are coded in tar and I can't make out color on wires. Plus the schematic does not give values..just the placement of caps by virtue of a number(23 on schematic) My question is..could I just replace all with .5 values or will this effect preformance??
:
:Replacing them all with 0.5 will likely cause problems. This is especailly true in teh audio section. There wrong size capacitors will cause distortion in the audio.
:
:Best Regards,
:
:Bill Grim

I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Grim. I think all those caps are bypass caps, and the value isn't important. But, since it won't hurt anything, why don't you try it and see what happens?
Lewis

3/24/2009 8:10:13 PMG. Berg
Yah think I agree....The only reason I did not wana try it is because I don't think I can fit 5 .5 caps back in the original can....

:::Hi all I am restoring a Philco 52. It has a block of caps (Philco part # 03915 cap values are .1,.5,.25,.5,.15 )The wires comming out of the block are usually color coded making the job easy. In this case the wires are coded in tar and I can't make out color on wires. Plus the schematic does not give values..just the placement of caps by virtue of a number(23 on schematic) My question is..could I just replace all with .5 values or will this effect preformance??
::
::Replacing them all with 0.5 will likely cause problems. This is especailly true in teh audio section. There wrong size capacitors will cause distortion in the audio.
::
::Best Regards,
::
::Bill Grim
:
:I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Grim. I think all those caps are bypass caps, and the value isn't important. But, since it won't hurt anything, why don't you try it and see what happens?
:Lewis

3/25/2009 12:16:41 AMThomas Dermody
There are different capacitances to match the different resistances found in the various circuits. Capacitor drain rate affects low frequency passage and or supression. I do not know why, but as is typical, my brain is going blank on the exact term for this phenomenon.

The .05 MFD caps may work well, but performance will most likely be affected in one way or another. Reduction in capactance in one of the cathode bias circuits may reduce bass response (I believe that it is in the detector). Reduction of capacitance in filter circuits may also reduce bass response, or make the circuit become unstable at low frequencies.

T.

3/25/2009 3:19:30 AMG. Berg ok thanks
I was able to take some light grit sand paper and sand off tar on wires...and get to the cloth color to tell what caps should go where....Uses lots of heat shrink and stuffed all back into original container....I am now working on the tar filled black bakelight "cans"

:There are different capacitances to match the different resistances found in the various circuits. Capacitor drain rate affects low frequency passage and or supression. I do not know why, but as is typical, my brain is going blank on the exact term for this phenomenon.
:
:The .05 MFD caps may work well, but performance will most likely be affected in one way or another. Reduction in capactance in one of the cathode bias circuits may reduce bass response (I believe that it is in the detector). Reduction of capacitance in filter circuits may also reduce bass response, or make the circuit become unstable at low frequencies.
:
:T.

3/25/2009 7:10:14 AMZ-
: Capacitor drain rate affects low frequency passage and or supression.

"Impedance " (reactance) of a capacitor varies with frequency: Xc=1/ 2 PI F C

From that formulae it is obvious that smaller capacitor values will have a higher "impedance" at lower frequencies (in term of audio, less bass).

Syl

3/25/2009 7:15:17 AMZ-
:Hi all I am restoring a Philco 52. It has a block of caps (Philco part # 03915 cap values are .1,.5,.25,.5,.15 )The wires comming out of the block are usually color coded making the job easy. In this case the wires are coded in tar and I can't make out color on wires. Plus the schematic does not give values..just the placement of caps by virtue of a number(23 on schematic) My question is..could I just replace all with .5 values or will this effect preformance??

Unless you are an engineer, I would trust the original engineer(s) of the radio and replace with correct values. I would think if a single values was acceptable, they would have used it then.

You know there is a Philco Forum on the net?

Syl

3/25/2009 9:00:47 AMG. Berg
Yah hi Sly...The problem that I have/had .. I was able to figure out...I just scraped away tar off of cloth coated wire and I was able to tell color code. Schematic was of little use because vales were not on it. I have books on Philco capacitor info that tells values and has original parts numbers..but the crux of the problem was the color code on the wires comming out of the cap block....Was able to clean wires up just enough to get a color off them...


::Hi all I am restoring a Philco 52. It has a block of caps (Philco part # 03915 cap values are .1,.5,.25,.5,.15 )The wires comming out of the block are usually color coded making the job easy. In this case the wires are coded in tar and I can't make out color on wires. Plus the schematic does not give values..just the placement of caps by virtue of a number(23 on schematic) My question is..could I just replace all with .5 values or will this effect preformance??
:
:Unless you are an engineer, I would trust the original engineer(s) of the radio and replace with correct values. I would think if a single values was acceptable, they would have used it then.
:
:You know there is a Philco Forum on the net?
:
:Syl

3/25/2009 10:11:14 AMNorm Leal
Hi

Use this schematic. Most values are shown.

http://www.philcoradio.com/tech/images/51.jpg

You can use larger bypass caps. If an original was .1 mf it's ok to use .5 mf. Manufacturers figured lowest value acceptable as cost was less.

Norm

:Hi all I am restoring a Philco 52. It has a block of caps (Philco part # 03915 cap values are .1,.5,.25,.5,.15 )The wires comming out of the block are usually color coded making the job easy. In this case the wires are coded in tar and I can't make out color on wires. Plus the schematic does not give values..just the placement of caps by virtue of a number(23 on schematic) My question is..could I just replace all with .5 values or will this effect preformance??

3/31/2009 1:06:01 AMG. Berg
Thanks Norm...I am finished with elect. restoration... Powered up radio slowly on my variac...and ran for and hr...WORKS GREAT!!! It has all original (I believe) Philco globe tubes with bright blue yellow and blue labels......This radio was painted "barn" red and i restored the case ...LOOKS GREAT!!!

:Hi
:
: Use this schematic. Most values are shown.
:
:http://www.philcoradio.com/tech/images/51.jpg
:
: You can use larger bypass caps. If an original was .1 mf it's ok to use .5 mf. Manufacturers figured lowest value acceptable as cost was less.
:
:Norm
:
::Hi all I am restoring a Philco 52. It has a block of caps (Philco part # 03915 cap values are .1,.5,.25,.5,.15 )The wires comming out of the block are usually color coded making the job easy. In this case the wires are coded in tar and I can't make out color on wires. Plus the schematic does not give values..just the placement of caps by virtue of a number(23 on schematic) My question is..could I just replace all with .5 values or will this effect preformance??



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