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Volume Control replacement
12/29/2008 9:56:06 AMJohn
My Zenith Model 12S568 has a flaky volume control. Tried to wash it out but didn't help. How do I replace it as it has two taps and the replacement ones I get from RadioDaze don't have taps? Can it be repaired somehow?,,,and how?
12/29/2008 10:28:55 AMWalt
By 'flakey', do you mean that it cuts in/out loud and quiet at times? Be careful of some cleaners as they can do more harm than good, some solvents and lubes can damage the resistance material and plastic. As a 'last ditch' repair attempt they can be disassembled to check the wiper arm tension against the resistor shoe and be given direct, careful cleaning. Many volume control pots had standard designs, so parts from a spare could be used to repair another. Be careful about prying against plastic or bending non-ductile metals. A virtual control tap can be fabricated by adding two external resistors to the outer terminals of a new standard control with a higher resistance rating. The added resistors would then be connected to the tap wire and the overall resistance would match the original specs closely.
12/29/2008 10:42:01 AMJohn
: By 'flakey', do you mean that it cuts in/out loud and quiet at times? Be careful of some cleaners as they can do more harm than good, some solvents and lubes can damage the resistance material and plastic. As a 'last ditch' repair attempt they can be disassembled to check the wiper arm tension against the resistor shoe and be given direct, careful cleaning. Many volume control pots had standard designs, so parts from a spare could be used to repair another. Be careful about prying against plastic or bending non-ductile metals. A virtual control tap can be fabricated by adding two external resistors to the outer terminals of a new standard control with a higher resistance rating. The added resistors would then be connected to the tap wire and the overall resistance would match the original specs closely.

Thanks Walt, I unsoldered the three leads from the volume control part and put my ohmmeter to them. One leg on the end has no continuity to either center leg or other end leg.

12/29/2008 10:54:58 AMWarren
:: By 'flakey', do you mean that it cuts in/out loud and quiet at times? Be careful of some cleaners as they can do more harm than good, some solvents and lubes can damage the resistance material and plastic. As a 'last ditch' repair attempt they can be disassembled to check the wiper arm tension against the resistor shoe and be given direct, careful cleaning. Many volume control pots had standard designs, so parts from a spare could be used to repair another. Be careful about prying against plastic or bending non-ductile metals. A virtual control tap can be fabricated by adding two external resistors to the outer terminals of a new standard control with a higher resistance rating. The added resistors would then be connected to the tap wire and the overall resistance would match the original specs closely.
:
:Thanks Walt, I unsoldered the three leads from the volume control part and put my ohmmeter to them. One leg on the end has no continuity to either center leg or other end leg.

You will have to take it apart. The legs are crimped to the disk. Be careful and try to crimp it again from the sides, then top to bottom.

12/29/2008 12:43:09 PMLewis Linson
::: By 'flakey', do you mean that it cuts in/out loud and quiet at times? Be careful of some cleaners as they can do more harm than good, some solvents and lubes can damage the resistance material and plastic. As a 'last ditch' repair attempt they can be disassembled to check the wiper arm tension against the resistor shoe and be given direct, careful cleaning. Many volume control pots had standard designs, so parts from a spare could be used to repair another. Be careful about prying against plastic or bending non-ductile metals. A virtual control tap can be fabricated by adding two external resistors to the outer terminals of a new standard control with a higher resistance rating. The added resistors would then be connected to the tap wire and the overall resistance would match the original specs closely.
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::Thanks Walt, I unsoldered the three leads from the volume control part and put my ohmmeter to them. One leg on the end has no continuity to either center leg or other end leg.
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: You will have to take it apart. The legs are crimped to the disk. Be careful and try to crimp it again from the sides, then top to bottom.


For now, you can forget the taps, they only work with that super duper tone circuit, put in a regular volume control, and finish the rest of the radio. The control can, IMHO, be repaired, but you might have to get some conductive paint to repair the tap that doesn't measure to the rest of the pot.
Otherwise, that looks like a really good performing radio, what with the push-pull output and a few other things I see on the schematic.
Lewis

12/29/2008 2:59:17 PMJohn
:::: By 'flakey', do you mean that it cuts in/out loud and quiet at times? Be careful of some cleaners as they can do more harm than good, some solvents and lubes can damage the resistance material and plastic. As a 'last ditch' repair attempt they can be disassembled to check the wiper arm tension against the resistor shoe and be given direct, careful cleaning. Many volume control pots had standard designs, so parts from a spare could be used to repair another. Be careful about prying against plastic or bending non-ductile metals. A virtual control tap can be fabricated by adding two external resistors to the outer terminals of a new standard control with a higher resistance rating. The added resistors would then be connected to the tap wire and the overall resistance would match the original specs closely.
:::
:::Thanks Walt, I unsoldered the three leads from the volume control part and put my ohmmeter to them. One leg on the end has no continuity to either center leg or other end leg.
::
:: You will have to take it apart. The legs are crimped to the disk. Be careful and try to crimp it again from the sides, then top to bottom.
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:
:
:
:For now, you can forget the taps, they only work with that super duper tone circuit, put in a regular volume control, and finish the rest of the radio. The control can, IMHO, be repaired, but you might have to get some conductive paint to repair the tap that doesn't measure to the rest of the pot.
:Otherwise, that looks like a really good performing radio, what with the push-pull output and a few other things I see on the schematic.
:Lewis

If I just replace it for now could I use a 1Meg?

12/29/2008 3:28:26 PMThomas Dermody
1 meg would work.

Though your radio would work with virtual taps, they are not the same as an actual tapped volume control. The actual taps affect the audio as the wiper approaches and passes them. This would not happen with a virtual tap, though your radio would work.

If you do decide to go with the virtual tap method, construct a string of resistors that electrically equals the original volume control's resistance, including the position of the taps. You can either try this attached between the two end terminals of your new volume control, or between the high and the center terminals of your control (the high terminal is where the signal is fed in from the IF transformer). I have a feeling that the latter approach will create an effect more in keeping with the original control, but I may be wrong.

Another thing to consider is that paralleling resistance with the volume control will effectively reduce the resistance of the volume control, which tends to reduce bass response. If, for instance, the radio originally called for a tapped 1 meg volume control, you might consider trying a string of resistors equalling 2 megohms in parallel with a 2 megohm volume control, as opposed to a string of resistors equalling 1 megohm in parallel with a 1 megohm control. Try it and see which one you like better. Increasing the resistances of the virtual tap circuit might reduce effectiveness of the circuit, so it might not be possible to do this.

*****************************************************

As was suggested, conductive paint can be used to make repairs to the original control. Go to an automotive store and purchase a rear window defogger repair kit. If the bad spots are on the actual wiper surface, a repair will create a flat spot (where no change takes place), but the control will otherwise function well.

It is best to disassemble a poorly working control and to have a look inside. If the terminals do not have continuity, but the resistance material otherwise looks fine, try squeezing the rivets gently with a pliers. If there is a crack in the resistance material, defogger repair paint will help here. If the wiper isn't making proper contact with the resistance material, remove the C clip from the shaft and remove the wiper (somewhat difficult--requires two sharp screw drivers....don't stab yourself!!). Bend the wiper(s) down so that there is slightly more contact. Don't over-do it or you'll wear out the resistance material prematurely. Reassemble the wiper assembly without inserting the clip. Check operation. Be sure that no sharp edges on the wiper dig into the resistance material. If they do, bend the wiper appropriately or file the sharp edges so that only smooth round surfaces touch the resistance material.

Finally, before the final assembly, apply a thin film of di-electric grease to the resistance material. Apply some to the wiper shaft, too. Reassemble the control. Check operation with your meter. Then replace the C clip once it is affirmative that the control works properly. Tighten the C clip with a pliers.

T.

12/29/2008 3:31:04 PMThomas Dermody
Though I see in your schematic that the original volume control is a 2.5 meg. A 1 meg replacement will work, but might reduce bass. Best to go with a 2 meg replacement.
12/29/2008 6:27:28 PMJohn
:Though I see in your schematic that the original volume control is a 2.5 meg. A 1 meg replacement will work, but might reduce bass. Best to go with a 2 meg replacement.

Thanks, I took it all apart and it just isn't making contact where the one leg is bent over onto the conductive strip. Crimping it down more does nothing. When I took the back off there was a small metal cylinder just floating around inside and I have no idea where it should go. Seems like it would have been used for a stop but don't see where it lived.

12/29/2008 10:01:36 PMWarren
::Though I see in your schematic that the original volume control is a 2.5 meg. A 1 meg replacement will work, but might reduce bass. Best to go with a 2 meg replacement.
:
:Thanks, I took it all apart and it just isn't making contact where the one leg is bent over onto the conductive strip. Crimping it down more does nothing. When I took the back off there was a small metal cylinder just floating around inside and I have no idea where it should go. Seems like it would have been used for a stop but don't see where it lived.

That cylinder looking thing is the part that rides the disk. It belongs on the wiper arm, and is held in place by the wipers spring action when the shaft is back in place, and together again. For the open leg you could try what I think is called " Ackwadac " don't know how that's really spelled. But it the flat black paint you would find on a CRT glass bell used for grounding. A dab of that from leg to disk will make connection again. You should be able to find this from some radio supply store. It's cheap too.

12/29/2008 11:29:39 PMThomas Dermody
If you can't find Aquadag, rear window defogger repair paint will work.

If you still can't figure out where the cylinder thingie goes, e-mail one (or some) of us some clear pictures. You can e-mail someone by dragging your mouse over their name, to the upper left of their post (while you're reading it). If it turns light blue, then they left their e-mail.

T.

12/30/2008 3:38:53 PMEdd







Certainly hope that the original pot can be cleaned and saved, due to its special physical construction along with the tandem taps that it uses on its peripheral resistive element.


From all that has been said, consult my attached drawing of the pot element and note that it utilized the “compressive" mode of connecting the outer terminals of the resistive element to those connectors. I certainly believe that yours will be utilizing a compressive rivet to enact that connection.


Your resistive reading DOES suggest the low end of the resistive element being an open circuit to its connective terminal. . . .right ?


Take one terminal of your ohmmeter and connect to the closest tap and take the other probe lead and move it across the element facing, starting at the lower part of the yellow markup and determine WHERE that open circuit initiates itself. . . . .it being as a crack across the element, an erosion of resistive element proper or on upwards at the proximity of actual interfacing into the connecting terminal.

If found in the last condition, or as having a hairline crack across the element, I can bubble bag mailer you a vinyl micro packet of colloidally suspended graphite. . .aka. . .Aquadag coating . . .aka “pookey”. . . . . in order for you to be able to repair the existing unit.


I usually use a wooden toothpick as its “brush” applicator.

Potentiometer Internals:


73's de Edd




12/30/2008 3:57:42 PMThe bot was packwards !
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:Certainly hope that the original pot can be cleaned and saved, due to its special physical construction along with the tandem taps that it uses on its peripheral resistive element.
:
:
:From all that has been said, consult my attached drawing of the pot element and note that it utilized the “compressive" mode of connecting the outer terminals of the resistive element to those connectors. I certainly believe that yours will be utilizing a compressive rivet to enact that connection.
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:Your resistive reading DOES suggest the low end of the resistive element being an open circuit to its connective terminal. . . .right ?
:
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:Take one terminal of your ohmmeter and connect to the closest tap and take the other probe lead and move it across the element facing, starting at the lower part of the yellow markup and determine WHERE that open circuit initiates itself. . . . .it being as a crack across the element, an erosion of resistive element proper or on upwards at the proximity of actual interfacing into the connecting terminal.
:
:If found in the last condition, or as having a hairline crack across the element, I can bubble bag mailer you a vinyl micro packet of colloidally suspended graphite. . .aka. . .Aquadag coating . . .aka “pookey”. . . . . in order for you to be able to repair the existing unit.
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:I usually use a wooden toothpick as its “brush” applicator.
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:Potentiometer Internals:
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The hoz mirrored pots image:



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:73's de Edd

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12/30/2008 9:46:26 PMGot To Like Edd
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::Certainly hope that the original pot can be cleaned and saved, due to its special physical construction along with the tandem taps that it uses on its peripheral resistive element.
::
::
::From all that has been said, consult my attached drawing of the pot element and note that it utilized the “compressive" mode of connecting the outer terminals of the resistive element to those connectors. I certainly believe that yours will be utilizing a compressive rivet to enact that connection.
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::Your resistive reading DOES suggest the low end of the resistive element being an open circuit to its connective terminal. . . .right ?
::
::
::Take one terminal of your ohmmeter and connect to the closest tap and take the other probe lead and move it across the element facing, starting at the lower part of the yellow markup and determine WHERE that open circuit initiates itself. . . . .it being as a crack across the element, an erosion of resistive element proper or on upwards at the proximity of actual interfacing into the connecting terminal.
::
::If found in the last condition, or as having a hairline crack across the element, I can bubble bag mailer you a vinyl micro packet of colloidally suspended graphite. . .aka. . .Aquadag coating . . .aka “pookey”. . . . . in order for you to be able to repair the existing unit.
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::I usually use a wooden toothpick as its “brush” applicator.
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::Potentiometer Internals:
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:The hoz mirrored pots image:
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::73's de Edd

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Like your pictures, your humor, and tech know how. Very good Edd. You seem to put a personal touch in your postings. Good to know there is a person out there going though that much work to help others.
Atta Boy ! <> Warren <>

1/5/2009 2:53:48 PMLewis Linson
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:::Certainly hope that the original pot can be cleaned and saved, due to its special physical construction along with the tandem taps that it uses on its peripheral resistive element.
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:::From all that has been said, consult my attached drawing of the pot element and note that it utilized the “compressive" mode of connecting the outer terminals of the resistive element to those connectors. I certainly believe that yours will be utilizing a compressive rivet to enact that connection.
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:::Your resistive reading DOES suggest the low end of the resistive element being an open circuit to its connective terminal. . . .right ?
:::
:::
:::Take one terminal of your ohmmeter and connect to the closest tap and take the other probe lead and move it across the element facing, starting at the lower part of the yellow markup and determine WHERE that open circuit initiates itself. . . . .it being as a crack across the element, an erosion of resistive element proper or on upwards at the proximity of actual interfacing into the connecting terminal.
:::
:::If found in the last condition, or as having a hairline crack across the element, I can bubble bag mailer you a vinyl micro packet of colloidally suspended graphite. . .aka. . .Aquadag coating . . .aka “pookey”. . . . . in order for you to be able to repair the existing unit.
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:::I usually use a wooden toothpick as its “brush” applicator.
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:::Potentiometer Internals:
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::The hoz mirrored pots image:
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:::73's de Edd

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:Like your pictures, your humor, and tech know how. Very good Edd. You seem to put a personal touch in your postings. Good to know there is a person out there going though that much work to help others.
: Atta Boy ! <> Warren <>


You are SO right, Warren, Edd is de MAN!!
Lewis



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