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TO CAP OR NOT TO CAP, THAT IS THE QUESTION
3/27/2008 10:47:17 PMGeorge
Hi, I recently acquired a 1939 Silvertone Model 6230. The set is in excellent condition just had to put a new eye tube in it. All of the caps are original and the set plays perfectly with great tone, volume, and sensitivity. My thought is to just play it until it starts to hum or just gives out. It seems to me when you recap a set you loose some of the tone. What are your thoughts on this. Thanks, George.
3/28/2008 1:15:54 AMPeter G. Balazsy
You will not loose some of the tone because of a recap.

Perhaps if you have some old leaky caps that are still working but marginally ... and the sound produced by the effects of leaky caps is acceptable to you... and then you replace the bad caps with good caps... the leaks will disappear and the tone will return to the factory design.
If that is what you mean... then perhaps re-capping WILL change things... but otherwise the only other thing when left un-capped....is that the set will be "original" though flawed and dangerous when played.

3/28/2008 10:48:01 AMTonyJ
This seems to be a hot topic that gets argued back and forth at times in other forums as well. Personally I recap every set I get, even a few of the AA5 sets that too have worked well without hum or other problems with the originals. The cost of the caps is pretty inexpensive and would rather nip potential problems now instead of later where a failure may compromise another component. I also enjoy working on them, as it is a sort of 'getaway' from the daily routine of work and kid's activities that seem to swallow up most of our time ;)

:You will not loose some of the tone because of a recap.
:
:Perhaps if you have some old leaky caps that are still working but marginally ... and the sound produced by the effects of leaky caps is acceptable to you... and then you replace the bad caps with good caps... the leaks will disappear and the tone will return to the factory design.
:If that is what you mean... then perhaps re-capping WILL change things... but otherwise the only other thing when left un-capped....is that the set will be "original" though flawed and dangerous when played.
:

3/28/2008 11:54:23 AMLewis Linson

All:
At aircraft repair stations and the airline where I worked, we measured the current flowing through the cap. At 375 Volts, the limit was 12 mA.. but in reality, the current was usually about 3 or 4, or much higher than twelve. Of course, we are talking here about caps about five years old at the most.
Lewis


:This seems to be a hot topic that gets argued back and forth at times in other forums as well. Personally I recap every set I get, even a few of the AA5 sets that too have worked well without hum or other problems with the originals. The cost of the caps is pretty inexpensive and would rather nip potential problems now instead of later where a failure may compromise another component. I also enjoy working on them, as it is a sort of 'getaway' from the daily routine of work and kid's activities that seem to swallow up most of our time ;)
:
:
:
::You will not loose some of the tone because of a recap.
::
::Perhaps if you have some old leaky caps that are still working but marginally ... and the sound produced by the effects of leaky caps is acceptable to you... and then you replace the bad caps with good caps... the leaks will disappear and the tone will return to the factory design.
::If that is what you mean... then perhaps re-capping WILL change things... but otherwise the only other thing when left un-capped....is that the set will be "original" though flawed and dangerous when played.
::

3/28/2008 12:23:52 PMBill G.
Hi All,
I have an 1937 Zenith with a volcano in it. The volcano is its original filter capacitor. When I got it what happened was quite obvious. Someone plugged it in and that filter went off like Mt. Saint Hellens. I recapped it. The volcano is now extinct.
More subtly, rotting paper wax capacitors slowly degrade performance. The radio starts to perform worse and worse. After a while you will find yourself not tuning it on. After a while it then goes in the attic.
Radios that are not recapped will put out a distinctive fragrence, which I like. I am considering recapping a radio and putting all the paper wax capacitors in parallel across the high voltage, and savor that aroma.

Best Regards,

Bill grimm

3/28/2008 3:45:13 PMThomas Dermody
....Ha! Old radios do have a wonderful aroma when on.

T.

3/28/2008 8:09:34 PMTonyJ
I'll have my wife check Yankee Candle the next time she's there and see if they have one called Eau de Capacitor :)

:....Ha! Old radios do have a wonderful aroma when on.
:
:T.

3/30/2008 9:30:59 PMBill G.
Good comments, guys.

When I see a radio for sale from a non-smoking home I wonder if they are thinking of that aroma and that some people don't like it.

All the Best,

Bill Grimm

3/28/2008 10:20:11 PMGeorge
Well sounds like I should probably recap this set even though it sounds great. The caps are the paper/wax type. My wife always burns a candle at night when we listen to "Coast to Coast" so I guess this is why I can't smell the radio. Unless you guys are pulling my leg. But I do have another question, are the orange dip caps better than the standard yellow caps? Is there any sound difference between them? People seem to like the orange dips better maybe because they are better looking.
George
3/28/2008 11:31:07 PMThomas Dermody
Honestly, in my opinion, if an AA5 works fine as-is, I don't think that the caps need to be replaced. Most everyone else on here disagrees with me on this one, which is why I didn't mention it before. If you want the most reliable set, replace all of the caps. You aren't likely to fry much except the 35Z5 and the output transformer with the original caps, however. Put a .5 to 1 ampere slow blow fuse in series with the line cord for protection if you wish.

You will have optimum performance with all new caps, and will save yourself future headaches, but truthfully there are sets out there with all original components that work fine for years and years. They're not common, but they do exist. Caps that will cause trouble with very little leakage are the AVC and audio bypass caps. Distortion on strong signals indicates a leaky AVC cap. Distortion for all signals at all volume levels is most likely due to leaky audio caps, and they can leak in the millions of ohms and still cause trouble in some sets. Crackling is probably due to an arcing cap, most likely across a two points of high potential (from a very positive point to a very negative point). If the electrolytics don't have any leakage, and they function well, they will most likely function well for quite a few more years. If they are starting to become leaky or are drying up, they will definitely fail sooner or later. Again, in an AA5, you can't damage much. The line cord condenser is the one most likey to cause a fireworks display, so if nothing else, replace that.

I would leave the set alone, myself, simply because I like to have an all original set once in a while (other than the line cord cap). All of the modern replacement caps are good replacements, though. It depends on what you want to do. Ceramic caps are very reliable and compact, though for precision circuits involving radio frequencies (oscillators, IF transformers, and other tuned circuits), they tend to drift too much for stable operation. Sprague orange drop capacitors are very reliable. My ideal cap is the yellow tubular metalized film cap. These caps are highly reliable and stable, too, and fit well inside of old capacitor containers, should one wish to stuff new caps inside of the old ones for an original look. That's definitely an option for you, too, if keeping the radio original is that important to you. While I would like every radio I own to look completely original, I'm less likely to stuff caps in small post-war table models, though you can stuff caps in those sets, too......whatever works for you.


T.

3/29/2008 1:11:08 AMGeorge
The line fuse is an excellent idea. I kinda like the idea of an all original set, although I did replace the power cord the original was a bit frayed. Somebody really took care of this set it is a real beauty. It is a BC/SW with push buttons. That sounds pretty good to stuff the original caps, I hear it is quite a job though. I have 3 projects to complete before I revisit this one. This is the second radio I have run across that worked great in original condition. The first one I should have left alone, it had great fresh looking Astron caps in it. It played just as nice after the recap job but I still think I should have left it alone. When you start doing this stuff you go crazy recapping sets, that old saying "If it works don't fix it" applies in some rare cases. Thank You Thomas for the info.
3/29/2008 12:21:49 PMThomas Dermody
What I like to do with the rubber line cords, since they are no longer available (sad, because they feel really good, though they decay quickly), is I remove the old rubber plug, if it is still in good condition. With some rubber plugs the prongs can be easily pulled out. I clean the wiring off of the prongs. Then I purchase some larger dimension brown plastic cord from the hardware store, and attach the old rubber plug to the new cord. From a short distance away it looks original.

T.

3/29/2008 2:31:28 PMEdd









Timelessly Tried Technical Tip #1….. On those real, bony-fried, rubber power cords, you should be able to extend the lifespan appreciably by cutting down on the oxidation susceptibility by applying a thin film of Dow Corning silicone grease to the surface area and working it in with a cloth all of the length and then removing most all of it to the point where the wire has a matte surface appearance again and abates the shine factor.
Unless some slight degree of shine might be desirable, that will have left silicone down in the rubber pores, and afford quite a degree of shielding from further oxidation / rot.


Timellessly Tried Technical Tip # 2….. If I happen to be wanting to use an orange drop in a stuffing situation, the handling of the transition to axial end at the corner as opposed to its radial positioning would be desired with the minimal out jutting of the leads from the radial dimension of the casing. Bending a lead around will still leave an outcropping that has extended the lead outwards greater than the center radial dimension of the capacitor.

In order to get that area fully flush, I will take an Exacto knife and scrape away or use a carefully applied Dremel tools cut off wheel to the orange epoxy coating on the cap end to just barely show the wire and then the wire can be micro-peeled out of the slot and have the wire then being bent to be at a coincident plane to the capacitor and be a full axial unit in that corner area. The jutting orange epoxy flash, formerly surrounding a portion of the wire lead, is then filed down flush and epoxy sealed .


That then gives the result as shown in the photos below………before and after.


73's de Edd





:What I like to do with the rubber line cords, since they are no longer available (sad, because they feel really good, though they decay quickly), is I remove the old rubber plug, if it is still in good condition. With some rubber plugs the prongs can be easily pulled out. I clean the wiring off of the prongs. Then I purchase some larger dimension brown plastic cord from the hardware store, and attach the old rubber plug to the new cord. From a short distance away it looks original.
:
:T.

3/29/2008 6:20:28 AMTonyJ
When I first started playing with these old sets last fall I bought orange drops because I too remember years ago hearing that they were the best. However, I've started using the yellow film caps and personally find no difference in audio. Actually the yellow film caps are easier to work with as they have axial leads and are smaller than an orange drop. Radio Daze and JustRadios both have nice sets for sale should you wish to stock your parts cabinet with a variety. JustRadios also carries an assortment of safety caps as well for use when a cap is across the AC line, or across each AC line leg to ground.

:Well sounds like I should probably recap this set even though it sounds great. The caps are the paper/wax type. My wife always burns a candle at night when we listen to "Coast to Coast" so I guess this is why I can't smell the radio. Unless you guys are pulling my leg. But I do have another question, are the orange dip caps better than the standard yellow caps? Is there any sound difference between them? People seem to like the orange dips better maybe because they are better looking.
:George



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