Received a sad looking 40-120 that needed a home and noticed a bit of a tangled mess of fine wiring around the antenna frame, perpendicular to the loop itself. I pulled the chassis out and traced out what was what with the mess of wiring around the loop frame. As far as I can tell, there are two thin wires that both terminate to a lug on the antenna terminal strip that ultimately connects to the chassis. I am assuming that each of these wires were wound around the antenna frame perpendicular to the antenna loop and basically were fastened at each end to a hole in the frame. Since this wire was cut in several places and some sections missing, that's what I can gather. Am I correct in this, and if so, is this some sort of 'ground plane' that is required for this antenna setup? When it comes time to work on this chassis I want to replace it - any help with the number of turns etc. would be helpful.

Another thing I discovered is that this unit has a mixture of cloth covered wire and the dreaded rubber insulated style. Some of the rubber pieces are deteriorating and I'll replace them. As far as the others, what is typical with the rest of you who work on these type chassis - do you typically replace all of the rubber wiring to be sure to nip future problems in the bud?

One last thing I noticed in looking at this one - the multi sectioned electrolytic was rated at 120v and the print shows a voltage measurement of 120V on one section. Nothing like working right at the rating of the unit - my cap looks like it has expanded out both ends of the cardboard tube. Wonder why Philco didn't give themselves a little breathing room with the working voltage on the cap.

Tony,
"Ground plane" is hardly a good explanation for what Philco called their super aerial. The numerous Philco specific sites/pro's may have more data on it than these Rider's docs. Could be some young techie of yesteryear added a loop stick, and what you see is its remnants. Trace out the existing loop antenna and wiring and confirm with the schematic. The perpendicular arrangement may have been a simple secondary creating an antenna transformer.

marv

:Received a sad looking 40-120 that needed a home and noticed a bit of a tangled mess of fine wiring around the antenna frame, perpendicular to the loop itself. I pulled the chassis out and traced out what was what with the mess of wiring around the loop frame. As far as I can tell, there are two thin wires that both terminate to a lug on the antenna terminal strip that ultimately connects to the chassis. I am assuming that each of these wires were wound around the antenna frame perpendicular to the antenna loop and basically were fastened at each end to a hole in the frame. Since this wire was cut in several places and some sections missing, that's what I can gather. Am I correct in this, and if so, is this some sort of 'ground plane' that is required for this antenna setup? When it comes time to work on this chassis I want to replace it - any help with the number of turns etc. would be helpful.
:
:Another thing I discovered is that this unit has a mixture of cloth covered wire and the dreaded rubber insulated style. Some of the rubber pieces are deteriorating and I'll replace them. As far as the others, what is typical with the rest of you who work on these type chassis - do you typically replace all of the rubber wiring to be sure to nip future problems in the bud?
:
:One last thing I noticed in looking at this one - the multi sectioned electrolytic was rated at 120v and the print shows a voltage measurement of 120V on one section. Nothing like working right at the rating of the unit - my cap looks like it has expanded out both ends of the cardboard tube. Wonder why Philco didn't give themselves a little breathing room with the working voltage on the cap.

Here is a link with another person with the same radio (and much cleaner wiring around the frame):

http://a1radio.com/philco40-120.htm

The loop antenna and it's taps do match up with the schematic. This other 'perpendicular loop' doesn't seem to be, yet another site with a picture of this radio shows the same setup. This additional loop terminates at one end on a chassis ground lug and the other ends appear to be unconnected electrically. By the way, this particular website also is where I saw the mention of putting glue on speakers :) I do have a post into the Philco Phorum as well but haven't gotten any feedback there yet. Interesting thought you had on it forming some sort of transformer winding. From what I can tell, this would most likely be a winding where the center tap is grounded to the chassis and the two outermost ends left floating.

:Tony,
:"Ground plane" is hardly a good explanation for what Philco called their super aerial. The numerous Philco specific sites/pro's may have more data on it than these Rider's docs. Could be some young techie of yesteryear added a loop stick, and what you see is its remnants. Trace out the existing loop antenna and wiring and confirm with the schematic. The perpendicular arrangement may have been a simple secondary creating an antenna transformer.
:
:marv
:
::Received a sad looking 40-120 that needed a home and noticed a bit of a tangled mess of fine wiring around the antenna frame, perpendicular to the loop itself. I pulled the chassis out and traced out what was what with the mess of wiring around the loop frame. As far as I can tell, there are two thin wires that both terminate to a lug on the antenna terminal strip that ultimately connects to the chassis. I am assuming that each of these wires were wound around the antenna frame perpendicular to the antenna loop and basically were fastened at each end to a hole in the frame. Since this wire was cut in several places and some sections missing, that's what I can gather. Am I correct in this, and if so, is this some sort of 'ground plane' that is required for this antenna setup? When it comes time to work on this chassis I want to replace it - any help with the number of turns etc. would be helpful.
::
::Another thing I discovered is that this unit has a mixture of cloth covered wire and the dreaded rubber insulated style. Some of the rubber pieces are deteriorating and I'll replace them. As far as the others, what is typical with the rest of you who work on these type chassis - do you typically replace all of the rubber wiring to be sure to nip future problems in the bud?
::
::One last thing I noticed in looking at this one - the multi sectioned electrolytic was rated at 120v and the print shows a voltage measurement of 120V on one section. Nothing like working right at the rating of the unit - my cap looks like it has expanded out both ends of the cardboard tube. Wonder why Philco didn't give themselves a little breathing room with the working voltage on the cap.

Mystery most likely solved. Found a website that showed another model Philco with wires wrapped in a perpendicular fashion to the loop antenna and they said it was to serve as an 'electrostatic' shield, similar to the Zenith shielded wavemagnet antennas. It is supposed to reject electrostatic interference and improve signal to noise ratio.

:Here is a link with another person with the same radio (and much cleaner wiring around the frame):
:
:http://a1radio.com/philco40-120.htm
:
:The loop antenna and it's taps do match up with the schematic. This other 'perpendicular loop' doesn't seem to be, yet another site with a picture of this radio shows the same setup. This additional loop terminates at one end on a chassis ground lug and the other ends appear to be unconnected electrically. By the way, this particular website also is where I saw the mention of putting glue on speakers :) I do have a post into the Philco Phorum as well but haven't gotten any feedback there yet. Interesting thought you had on it forming some sort of transformer winding. From what I can tell, this would most likely be a winding where the center tap is grounded to the chassis and the two outermost ends left floating.
:
:
::Tony,
::"Ground plane" is hardly a good explanation for what Philco called their super aerial. The numerous Philco specific sites/pro's may have more data on it than these Rider's docs. Could be some young techie of yesteryear added a loop stick, and what you see is its remnants. Trace out the existing loop antenna and wiring and confirm with the schematic. The perpendicular arrangement may have been a simple secondary creating an antenna transformer.
::
::marv
::
:::Received a sad looking 40-120 that needed a home and noticed a bit of a tangled mess of fine wiring around the antenna frame, perpendicular to the loop itself. I pulled the chassis out and traced out what was what with the mess of wiring around the loop frame. As far as I can tell, there are two thin wires that both terminate to a lug on the antenna terminal strip that ultimately connects to the chassis. I am assuming that each of these wires were wound around the antenna frame perpendicular to the antenna loop and basically were fastened at each end to a hole in the frame. Since this wire was cut in several places and some sections missing, that's what I can gather. Am I correct in this, and if so, is this some sort of 'ground plane' that is required for this antenna setup? When it comes time to work on this chassis I want to replace it - any help with the number of turns etc. would be helpful.
:::
:::Another thing I discovered is that this unit has a mixture of cloth covered wire and the dreaded rubber insulated style. Some of the rubber pieces are deteriorating and I'll replace them. As far as the others, what is typical with the rest of you who work on these type chassis - do you typically replace all of the rubber wiring to be sure to nip future problems in the bud?
:::
:::One last thing I noticed in looking at this one - the multi sectioned electrolytic was rated at 120v and the print shows a voltage measurement of 120V on one section. Nothing like working right at the rating of the unit - my cap looks like it has expanded out both ends of the cardboard tube. Wonder why Philco didn't give themselves a little breathing room with the working voltage on the cap.

Nice little radio. I almost bought one myself once. Regarding the rubber wire, if it isn't falling to pieces, and you don't have to move it, you don't really have to worry about it. The insulation generally doesn't fall off on its own. If hard, it will stay in place until the wire is moved. If you wish to replace the wire, there are some kinds of plastic wire that look similar. Also, www.radiodaze.com and www.tubesandmore.com both sell some really attractive cloth covered wire. If you wish, you can convert the entire radio to cloth, which is more durable. If you keep the original rubber wiring, make sure that none of it is pulled against sharp objects, especially if they get hot (tube socket contacts). Once I had the 117Z6 in my Zenith 5-G-500 blow up because the rubber wiring melted to a socket terminal. The radio now has all cloth wiring, and I don't worry about it.

T.

I will probably be placing an order soon with them for some caps and will look at getting a spool of cloth covered wire. There are a few sections in this particular set that it has crumbled off of and will need to be replaced. I'm guessing that when I recap it and some of the wiring is moved around, more may crumble. I've seen some products that look like a brush on wire insulation, but personally would rather take the time and make sure it's right.

:Nice little radio. I almost bought one myself once. Regarding the rubber wire, if it isn't falling to pieces, and you don't have to move it, you don't really have to worry about it. The insulation generally doesn't fall off on its own. If hard, it will stay in place until the wire is moved. If you wish to replace the wire, there are some kinds of plastic wire that look similar. Also, www.radiodaze.com and www.tubesandmore.com both sell some really attractive cloth covered wire. If you wish, you can convert the entire radio to cloth, which is more durable. If you keep the original rubber wiring, make sure that none of it is pulled against sharp objects, especially if they get hot (tube socket contacts). Once I had the 117Z6 in my Zenith 5-G-500 blow up because the rubber wiring melted to a socket terminal. The radio now has all cloth wiring, and I don't worry about it.
:
:T.

Sorry if this is a silly question - Radio Daze has both 18 and 20 gauge wire, both stranded and solid. I'm leaning toward the stranded, but as far as the gauge, is the 20 acceptable for most vintage radio work, or should I go with 18? With potentially having a few connections on a tube socket etc, would be nice to use the smaller gauge. Thanks!

:Nice little radio. I almost bought one myself once. Regarding the rubber wire, if it isn't falling to pieces, and you don't have to move it, you don't really have to worry about it. The insulation generally doesn't fall off on its own. If hard, it will stay in place until the wire is moved. If you wish to replace the wire, there are some kinds of plastic wire that look similar. Also, www.radiodaze.com and www.tubesandmore.com both sell some really attractive cloth covered wire. If you wish, you can convert the entire radio to cloth, which is more durable. If you keep the original rubber wiring, make sure that none of it is pulled against sharp objects, especially if they get hot (tube socket contacts). Once I had the 117Z6 in my Zenith 5-G-500 blow up because the rubber wiring melted to a socket terminal. The radio now has all cloth wiring, and I don't worry about it.
:
:T.

Solid is the standard in radio work, except for where the leads are flexxed a lot, such as when leads go from the chassis to another device, like a switch or motor or antenna. 20 gauge should be just fine. When working with high amperage filament circuits, you might consider using 18 or 16 gauge wire. I know that Radio Daze sells some green 16 gauge wire (I think it's 16 gauge, or is it 18 gauge?). It is appropriate for filament wiring. You will definitely need the heavier wire when working with early 1930s radios that use 2.5 volt tubes. It is especially recommended when the tube count goes over 4. If you are going over long distances in any radio, use the heavier gauge. If you are using the lighter gauge wire, and must hit a lot of tubes, divide the tubes into groups, and make separate runs for each group. Most radios are small enough that it is not necessary for those precautions. Elaborate consols, my Majestic 180, and possibly my Crosley 1117, are radios where you might want to take the extra precautions, especially with the Majestic 180. Its chassis is long, uses 8 tubes, and all are high current 2.5 volt tubes. I used Radio Daze's 8 conductor cloth cable to replace the original power cable, and I'm rather dissatisfied with the loss that occurs over its 20 gauge conductors. I wish that someone sold a cable with some 16 or 14 gauge conductors in it. I am going to have to use two cables for the time being. I don't want a mass of uncovered wires, so I'm going to stick with the cloth covered cables. They look more attractive.

T.

Here's a website showing construction of an antenna for a Philco 40-150: http://www.geocities.com/reevesradios/150a.html

I scratchbuilt this antenna for my 40-155 project and it works fine.

Hope this helps, Mark

:Mystery most likely solved. Found a website that showed another model Philco with wires wrapped in a perpendicular fashion to the loop antenna and they said it was to serve as an 'electrostatic' shield, similar to the Zenith shielded wavemagnet antennas. It is supposed to reject electrostatic interference and improve signal to noise ratio.
:
::Here is a link with another person with the same radio (and much cleaner wiring around the frame):
::
::http://a1radio.com/philco40-120.htm
::
::The loop antenna and it's taps do match up with the schematic. This other 'perpendicular loop' doesn't seem to be, yet another site with a picture of this radio shows the same setup. This additional loop terminates at one end on a chassis ground lug and the other ends appear to be unconnected electrically. By the way, this particular website also is where I saw the mention of putting glue on speakers :) I do have a post into the Philco Phorum as well but haven't gotten any feedback there yet. Interesting thought you had on it forming some sort of transformer winding. From what I can tell, this would most likely be a winding where the center tap is grounded to the chassis and the two outermost ends left floating.
::
::
:::Tony,
:::"Ground plane" is hardly a good explanation for what Philco called their super aerial. The numerous Philco specific sites/pro's may have more data on it than these Rider's docs. Could be some young techie of yesteryear added a loop stick, and what you see is its remnants. Trace out the existing loop antenna and wiring and confirm with the schematic. The perpendicular arrangement may have been a simple secondary creating an antenna transformer.
:::
:::marv
:::
::::Received a sad looking 40-120 that needed a home and noticed a bit of a tangled mess of fine wiring around the antenna frame, perpendicular to the loop itself. I pulled the chassis out and traced out what was what with the mess of wiring around the loop frame. As far as I can tell, there are two thin wires that both terminate to a lug on the antenna terminal strip that ultimately connects to the chassis. I am assuming that each of these wires were wound around the antenna frame perpendicular to the antenna loop and basically were fastened at each end to a hole in the frame. Since this wire was cut in several places and some sections missing, that's what I can gather. Am I correct in this, and if so, is this some sort of 'ground plane' that is required for this antenna setup? When it comes time to work on this chassis I want to replace it - any help with the number of turns etc. would be helpful.
::::
::::Another thing I discovered is that this unit has a mixture of cloth covered wire and the dreaded rubber insulated style. Some of the rubber pieces are deteriorating and I'll replace them. As far as the others, what is typical with the rest of you who work on these type chassis - do you typically replace all of the rubber wiring to be sure to nip future problems in the bud?
::::
::::One last thing I noticed in looking at this one - the multi sectioned electrolytic was rated at 120v and the print shows a voltage measurement of 120V on one section. Nothing like working right at the rating of the unit - my cap looks like it has expanded out both ends of the cardboard tube. Wonder why Philco didn't give themselves a little breathing room with the working voltage on the cap.

Thanks Mark! Exactly what I was looking for - my outside loop was cut in several places and sections of wire missing.

Tony

:Here's a website showing construction of an antenna for a Philco 40-150: http://www.geocities.com/reevesradios/150a.html
:
:I scratchbuilt this antenna for my 40-155 project and it works fine.
:
:Hope this helps, Mark

Mark/Tony,
Thats a a good picture/description, and I'd like to see an accurate schematic representation (if available) for future references. Its a strange animal indeed.

marv

:Here's a website showing construction of an antenna for a Philco 40-150: http://www.geocities.com/reevesradios/150a.html
:
:I scratchbuilt this antenna for my 40-155 project and it works fine.
:
:Hope this helps, Mark
:
::Mystery most likely solved. Found a website that showed another model Philco with wires wrapped in a perpendicular fashion to the loop antenna and they said it was to serve as an 'electrostatic' shield, similar to the Zenith shielded wavemagnet antennas. It is supposed to reject electrostatic interference and improve signal to noise ratio.
::
:::Here is a link with another person with the same radio (and much cleaner wiring around the frame):
:::
:::http://a1radio.com/philco40-120.htm
:::
:::The loop antenna and it's taps do match up with the schematic. This other 'perpendicular loop' doesn't seem to be, yet another site with a picture of this radio shows the same setup. This additional loop terminates at one end on a chassis ground lug and the other ends appear to be unconnected electrically. By the way, this particular website also is where I saw the mention of putting glue on speakers :) I do have a post into the Philco Phorum as well but haven't gotten any feedback there yet. Interesting thought you had on it forming some sort of transformer winding. From what I can tell, this would most likely be a winding where the center tap is grounded to the chassis and the two outermost ends left floating.
:::
:::
::::Tony,
::::"Ground plane" is hardly a good explanation for what Philco called their super aerial. The numerous Philco specific sites/pro's may have more data on it than these Rider's docs. Could be some young techie of yesteryear added a loop stick, and what you see is its remnants. Trace out the existing loop antenna and wiring and confirm with the schematic. The perpendicular arrangement may have been a simple secondary creating an antenna transformer.
::::
::::marv
::::
:::::Received a sad looking 40-120 that needed a home and noticed a bit of a tangled mess of fine wiring around the antenna frame, perpendicular to the loop itself. I pulled the chassis out and traced out what was what with the mess of wiring around the loop frame. As far as I can tell, there are two thin wires that both terminate to a lug on the antenna terminal strip that ultimately connects to the chassis. I am assuming that each of these wires were wound around the antenna frame perpendicular to the antenna loop and basically were fastened at each end to a hole in the frame. Since this wire was cut in several places and some sections missing, that's what I can gather. Am I correct in this, and if so, is this some sort of 'ground plane' that is required for this antenna setup? When it comes time to work on this chassis I want to replace it - any help with the number of turns etc. would be helpful.
:::::
:::::Another thing I discovered is that this unit has a mixture of cloth covered wire and the dreaded rubber insulated style. Some of the rubber pieces are deteriorating and I'll replace them. As far as the others, what is typical with the rest of you who work on these type chassis - do you typically replace all of the rubber wiring to be sure to nip future problems in the bud?
:::::
:::::One last thing I noticed in looking at this one - the multi sectioned electrolytic was rated at 120v and the print shows a voltage measurement of 120V on one section. Nothing like working right at the rating of the unit - my cap looks like it has expanded out both ends of the cardboard tube. Wonder why Philco didn't give themselves a little breathing room with the working voltage on the cap.

It took me a while to puzzle out all the connections & windings, even with the pics & diagrams. But I would have been clueless without that site. I bought my cabinet off eBay, without a back, got the chassis at an estate sale so I'm making a real franken-radio! Tonight, I'll post some pics of mine.

Mark

:Mark/Tony,
:Thats a a good picture/description, and I'd like to see an accurate schematic representation (if available) for future references. Its a strange animal indeed.
:
:marv
:
::Here's a website showing construction of an antenna for a Philco 40-150: http://www.geocities.com/reevesradios/150a.html
::
::I scratchbuilt this antenna for my 40-155 project and it works fine.
::
::Hope this helps, Mark
::
:::Mystery most likely solved. Found a website that showed another model Philco with wires wrapped in a perpendicular fashion to the loop antenna and they said it was to serve as an 'electrostatic' shield, similar to the Zenith shielded wavemagnet antennas. It is supposed to reject electrostatic interference and improve signal to noise ratio.
:::
::::Here is a link with another person with the same radio (and much cleaner wiring around the frame):
::::
::::http://a1radio.com/philco40-120.htm
::::

::::
:

OK, here, finally, is a link to some pics of the antenna I built:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22250518@N03/sets/72157603574809797

:It took me a while to puzzle out all the connections & windings, even with the pics & diagrams. But I would have been clueless without that site. I bought my cabinet off eBay, without a back, got the chassis at an estate sale so I'm making a real franken-radio! Tonight, I'll post some pics of mine.
:
:Mark
:
::Mark/Tony,
::Thats a a good picture/description, and I'd like to see an accurate schematic representation (if available) for future references. Its a strange animal indeed.
::
::marv
::
:::Here's a website showing construction of an antenna for a Philco 40-150: http://www.geocities.com/reevesradios/150a.html
:::
:::I scratchbuilt this antenna for my 40-155 project and it works fine.
:::
:::Hope this helps, Mark
:::
::::Mystery most likely solved. Found a website that showed another model Philco with wires wrapped in a perpendicular fashion to the loop antenna and they said it was to serve as an 'electrostatic' shield, similar to the Zenith shielded wavemagnet antennas. It is supposed to reject electrostatic interference and improve signal to noise ratio.
::::
:::::Here is a link with another person with the same radio (and much cleaner wiring around the frame):
:::::
:::::http://a1radio.com/philco40-120.htm
:::::
:
:::::
::