I have looked this radio over 100 times! I have replced all the caps,and most of the resistors. The radio motorboats badly,and will not recieve anything. This has the 7J7 tube. I can use any suggestions from you more experienced guys! I just can't figure this one out!
Thanks, Andy
Does the motorboating change with adjustment of the volume control? If you replaced the power supply electrolytics, did you use individual caps and completely isolate them from the original caps? Note that the cap connected to the 84 cathode has its plus to the cathode and its minus connects to the high voltage winding centertap and not chassis. Are the power supply voltages close to what the schematic indicates?
Radiodoc
**********
:Hi,
: I have looked this radio over 100 times! I have replced all the caps,and most of the resistors. The radio motorboats badly,and will not recieve anything. This has the 7J7 tube. I can use any suggestions from you more experienced guys! I just can't figure this one out!
: Thanks, Andy
Hi,
I have replaced all the power supply caps as individuals now. I get 213 VDC across the 8 ufd cap. Should be more like 300 VDC. The radio tone works well,but the volume doesn't do much. The motorboating is very loud. I'm still looking at it!
Thanks, Andy
I have solved the motorbaoting problem. I had the power suply capacitors in with the wrong polarities! How dumb am I? So, now all i get is a mild hiss even at full volume. The thing is, I think the alignment is way out of wake! Would you know where I can get the alignment proceedures for this Philco 40-165? Hearing it play would be so nice!!!
Thanks, Andy
The data you seek is on this site at:
http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/334/M0013334.htm
You will need Adobe Reader to view and print the information.
Radiodoc
**********
:Hi Again,
: I have solved the motorbaoting problem. I had the power suply capacitors in with the wrong polarities! How dumb am I? So, now all i get is a mild hiss even at full volume. The thing is, I think the alignment is way out of wake! Would you know where I can get the alignment proceedures for this Philco 40-165? Hearing it play would be so nice!!!
:
: Thanks, Andy
I will check any voltages that i can. But, for now. I get 200VDc where i should get 300,and 300VDC where i should get 200! I appreciate the alighnment info. Seems that page was missing! Please keep throwing ideas at me! I will figure this out!
Andy
To troubleshoot, you can check the voltages. The schematic shows voltages at various points: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/334/M0013334.pdf
If the set was motorboating, I guess that shows that the audio section is working. Start with looking at the voltages in the RF and IF sections.
Doug
Doug
:Hi Again,
: I have solved the motorbaoting problem. I had the power suply capacitors in with the wrong polarities! How dumb am I? So, now all i get is a mild hiss even at full volume. The thing is, I think the alignment is way out of wake! Would you know where I can get the alignment proceedures for this Philco 40-165? Hearing it play would be so nice!!!
:
: Thanks, Andy
I have printed the information. I will check all voltages. Now i get about 200VDC across the 8ufd cap. Should be 300vdc, and about 300vdc at the 4 ufd cap to ground. That should be 200vdc! I wish i had a pting of this circuit with the 7J7. Seems all these prints show the 6J8G which mine is not. Would the defference in osc. tubes alter the voltage values? I have been away from this for a couple years as I took on a new project restoring a 68 Ford Galaxie. I am not getting back into the old radios again. Kind of rusty!
Thanks, Andy
I think you need to slow down, take one step at a time, and document each change you make to the set. Record all voltage readings in writing. Don't go for a quick fix. Since you are "rusty," troubleshooting this set may takes days.
Doug
:Hi Doug,
: I have printed the information. I will check all voltages. Now i get about 200VDC across the 8ufd cap. Should be 300vdc, and about 300vdc at the 4 ufd cap to ground. That should be 200vdc! I wish i had a pting of this circuit with the 7J7. Seems all these prints show the 6J8G which mine is not. Would the defference in osc. tubes alter the voltage values? I have been away from this for a couple years as I took on a new project restoring a 68 Ford Galaxie. I am not getting back into the old radios again. Kind of rusty!
:
: Thanks, Andy
:
I think he has possibly corrected the motorboating problem. He had the electrolytics installed with the wrong polarity. He states he has a hiss now when he turns up the volume control. Perhaps if he would touch the center of the volume control there will be a loud hum indicating the audio section is now ok. As you suggested he should make voltage measurements now and compare with the values on the schematic. As for the different tubes (6J8 vs 7J7)he can probably look for the 7J7 pinout under tubes here to determine the grids, plate and cathode. Or perhaps he could look at another Philco schematic here that uses a 7J7 as does his radio (Rev. 4?) such as the 40-155
Radiodoc
**********
:The only way I can visualize coming up with those voltage readings is for the 4- and 8-uF caps to have been physically reversed.
:
:I think you need to slow down, take one step at a time, and document each change you make to the set. Record all voltage readings in writing. Don't go for a quick fix. Since you are "rusty," troubleshooting this set may takes days.
:Doug
:
::Hi Doug,
:: I have printed the information. I will check all voltages. Now i get about 200VDC across the 8ufd cap. Should be 300vdc, and about 300vdc at the 4 ufd cap to ground. That should be 200vdc! I wish i had a pting of this circuit with the 7J7. Seems all these prints show the 6J8G which mine is not. Would the defference in osc. tubes alter the voltage values? I have been away from this for a couple years as I took on a new project restoring a 68 Ford Galaxie. I am not getting back into the old radios again. Kind of rusty!
::
:: Thanks, Andy
::
:
:I think he has possibly corrected the motorboating problem. He had the electrolytics installed with the wrong polarity. He states he has a hiss now when he turns up the volume control. Perhaps if he would touch the center of the volume control there will be a loud hum indicating the audio section is now ok. As you suggested he should make voltage measurements now and compare with the values on the schematic. As for the different tubes (6J8 vs 7J7)he can probably look for the 7J7 pinout under tubes here to determine the grids, plate and cathode. Or perhaps he could look at another Philco schematic here that uses a 7J7 as does his radio (Rev. 4?) such as the 40-155
:
:Radiodoc
:**********
:
:
::The only way I can visualize coming up with those voltage readings is for the 4- and 8-uF caps to have been physically reversed.
::
::I think you need to slow down, take one step at a time, and document each change you make to the set. Record all voltage readings in writing. Don't go for a quick fix. Since you are "rusty," troubleshooting this set may takes days.
::Doug
::
:::Hi Doug,
::: I have printed the information. I will check all voltages. Now i get about 200VDC across the 8ufd cap. Should be 300vdc, and about 300vdc at the 4 ufd cap to ground. That should be 200vdc! I wish i had a pting of this circuit with the 7J7. Seems all these prints show the 6J8G which mine is not. Would the defference in osc. tubes alter the voltage values? I have been away from this for a couple years as I took on a new project restoring a 68 Ford Galaxie. I am not getting back into the old radios again. Kind of rusty!
:::
::: Thanks, Andy
:::
Hi Guys,
Happy Thanksgiving! Well, I am still plugging away at this. Still not much luck. I checked the power transformer resistances. they are not even close to what the schematic says they should be. On one leg i get 280 ohms,and 304 ohms on the other leg. they should be about 400 ohms. I have the power caps connected in the right polatity but, now cap#35 will smoke on me! Not good! I am still looking!
Thanks, Andy
Regarding your transformer, check its voltages against the schematic. If they are on the mark (or +/- 15 volts), then you are doing pretty well. The transformer should not get hot, though it may get a little too warm when under load.
Check your amplifier, as others have said. Touch the center terminal of the volume control. You can wire in a CD player by wiring the shield part of the CD player output cable to the B- side of the volume control. Wire the center wire(s) to the other outer terminal of the volume control. Test the radio. Turn the CD player all the way up. Listen to the radio at a reasonable volume. Adjust the CD player until distortion goes away. Re-adjust the radio's volume.
For the RF circuitry, it is best that you use a signal generator to feed a signal through, though you can adjust the IF transformers until you hear stations, if no generator is available. It is actually possible to perfectly align the radio without a generator, though the process takes a bit of time. If you haven't already adjusted the IF transformer adjustments, then it is best that you leave them alone until you are able to obtain a signal generator. They are most likely adjusted properly, unless someone before you mis-adjusted them. I once obtained a radio with mis-adjusted IF transformers. I turned the radio all the way up and started adjusting one until I could hear stations. Then I adjusted all others until I had a perfectly playing radio. Then, by touching up the high end of the dial with the oscillator adjustment, and the low end with the IF transformers, I was able to get the stations to track perfectly.
T.
:
:Regarding your transformer, check its voltages against the schematic. If they are on the mark (or +/- 15 volts), then you are doing pretty well. The transformer should not get hot, though it may get a little too warm when under load.
:
:Check your amplifier, as others have said. Touch the center terminal of the volume control. You can wire in a CD player by wiring the shield part of the CD player output cable to the B- side of the volume control. Wire the center wire(s) to the other outer terminal of the volume control. Test the radio. Turn the CD player all the way up. Listen to the radio at a reasonable volume. Adjust the CD player until distortion goes away. Re-adjust the radio's volume.
:
:For the RF circuitry, it is best that you use a signal generator to feed a signal through, though you can adjust the IF transformers until you hear stations, if no generator is available. It is actually possible to perfectly align the radio without a generator, though the process takes a bit of time. If you haven't already adjusted the IF transformer adjustments, then it is best that you leave them alone until you are able to obtain a signal generator. They are most likely adjusted properly, unless someone before you mis-adjusted them. I once obtained a radio with mis-adjusted IF transformers. I turned the radio all the way up and started adjusting one until I could hear stations. Then I adjusted all others until I had a perfectly playing radio. Then, by touching up the high end of the dial with the oscillator adjustment, and the low end with the IF transformers, I was able to get the stations to track perfectly.
:
:T.
Hi,
I have the 8 ufd cap with positive connected to the center leg of the power xfmr as the print indicates. The Negative leg to the cathode. The other two 4 ufd caps have their positive legs in accordance with the the other cap. Now, the 270 ohm resistor #57 is overheating! Must be drawing too much current? This is becoming a real puzzle! I wonder if i have a short somewhere?
Thanks, Andy
::
::Regarding your transformer, check its voltages against the schematic. If they are on the mark (or +/- 15 volts), then you are doing pretty well. The transformer should not get hot, though it may get a little too warm when under load.
::
::Check your amplifier, as others have said. Touch the center terminal of the volume control. You can wire in a CD player by wiring the shield part of the CD player output cable to the B- side of the volume control. Wire the center wire(s) to the other outer terminal of the volume control. Test the radio. Turn the CD player all the way up. Listen to the radio at a reasonable volume. Adjust the CD player until distortion goes away. Re-adjust the radio's volume.
::
::For the RF circuitry, it is best that you use a signal generator to feed a signal through, though you can adjust the IF transformers until you hear stations, if no generator is available. It is actually possible to perfectly align the radio without a generator, though the process takes a bit of time. If you haven't already adjusted the IF transformer adjustments, then it is best that you leave them alone until you are able to obtain a signal generator. They are most likely adjusted properly, unless someone before you mis-adjusted them. I once obtained a radio with mis-adjusted IF transformers. I turned the radio all the way up and started adjusting one until I could hear stations. Then I adjusted all others until I had a perfectly playing radio. Then, by touching up the high end of the dial with the oscillator adjustment, and the low end with the IF transformers, I was able to get the stations to track perfectly.
::
::T.
:
: Hi,
: I have the 8 ufd cap with positive connected to the center leg of the power xfmr as the print indicates. The Negative leg to the cathode. The other two 4 ufd caps have their positive legs in accordance with the the other cap. Now, the 270 ohm resistor #57 is overheating! Must be drawing too much current? This is becoming a real puzzle! I wonder if i have a short somewhere?
: Thanks, Andy
Sir Andrew:
(And considering this post of yours being placed waaaaaay down at the very bottom of the thread, and is your latest comment:
You done has went and been still are having that electrolytic connecterated back-um-wards.
Using the reference.... your main derived..raw B+ is coming from the cathode of the 84 and is needing the positive of that( yellow mark-up) electrolytic, being connected to it.
The cathode of that electrolytic goes down and is connected to the top of that 270 resistor.
I have highlighted the polarities on the print. Hee...Hee...I would be hurting also, if I was that 270 ohm unit.... but would live through it.
73's de Edd
:::
:::Regarding your transformer, check its voltages against the schematic. If they are on the mark (or +/- 15 volts), then you are doing pretty well. The transformer should not get hot, though it may get a little too warm when under load.
:::
:::Check your amplifier, as others have said. Touch the center terminal of the volume control. You can wire in a CD player by wiring the shield part of the CD player output cable to the B- side of the volume control. Wire the center wire(s) to the other outer terminal of the volume control. Test the radio. Turn the CD player all the way up. Listen to the radio at a reasonable volume. Adjust the CD player until distortion goes away. Re-adjust the radio's volume.
:::
:::For the RF circuitry, it is best that you use a signal generator to feed a signal through, though you can adjust the IF transformers until you hear stations, if no generator is available. It is actually possible to perfectly align the radio without a generator, though the process takes a bit of time. If you haven't already adjusted the IF transformer adjustments, then it is best that you leave them alone until you are able to obtain a signal generator. They are most likely adjusted properly, unless someone before you mis-adjusted them. I once obtained a radio with mis-adjusted IF transformers. I turned the radio all the way up and started adjusting one until I could hear stations. Then I adjusted all others until I had a perfectly playing radio. Then, by touching up the high end of the dial with the oscillator adjustment, and the low end with the IF transformers, I was able to get the stations to track perfectly.
:::
:::T.
::
:: Hi,
:: I have the 8 ufd cap with positive connected to the center leg of the power xfmr as the print indicates. The Negative leg to the cathode. The other two 4 ufd caps have their positive legs in accordance with the the other cap. Now, the 270 ohm resistor #57 is overheating! Must be drawing too much current? This is becoming a real puzzle! I wonder if i have a short somewhere?
:: Thanks, Andy
:
:Sir Andrew:
:
:(And considering this post of yours being placed waaaaaay down at the very bottom of the thread, and is your latest comment:
:
:
:
:
:
:You done has went and been still are having that electrolytic connecterated back-um-wards.
:Using the reference.... your main derived..raw B+ is coming from the cathode of the 84 and is needing the positive of that( yellow mark-up) electrolytic, being connected to it.
: The cathode of that electrolytic goes down and is connected to the top of that 270 resistor.
:I have highlighted the polarities on the print. Hee...Hee...I would be hurting also, if I was that 270 ohm unit.... but would live through it.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
::::
::::Regarding your transformer, check its voltages against the schematic. If they are on the mark (or +/- 15 volts), then you are doing pretty well. The transformer should not get hot, though it may get a little too warm when under load.
::::
::::Check your amplifier, as others have said. Touch the center terminal of the volume control. You can wire in a CD player by wiring the shield part of the CD player output cable to the B- side of the volume control. Wire the center wire(s) to the other outer terminal of the volume control. Test the radio. Turn the CD player all the way up. Listen to the radio at a reasonable volume. Adjust the CD player until distortion goes away. Re-adjust the radio's volume.
::::
::::For the RF circuitry, it is best that you use a signal generator to feed a signal through, though you can adjust the IF transformers until you hear stations, if no generator is available. It is actually possible to perfectly align the radio without a generator, though the process takes a bit of time. If you haven't already adjusted the IF transformer adjustments, then it is best that you leave them alone until you are able to obtain a signal generator. They are most likely adjusted properly, unless someone before you mis-adjusted them. I once obtained a radio with mis-adjusted IF transformers. I turned the radio all the way up and started adjusting one until I could hear stations. Then I adjusted all others until I had a perfectly playing radio. Then, by touching up the high end of the dial with the oscillator adjustment, and the low end with the IF transformers, I was able to get the stations to track perfectly.
::::
::::T.
:::
::: Hi,
::: I have the 8 ufd cap with positive connected to the center leg of the power xfmr as the print indicates. The Negative leg to the cathode. The other two 4 ufd caps have their positive legs in accordance with the the other cap. Now, the 270 ohm resistor #57 is overheating! Must be drawing too much current? This is becoming a real puzzle! I wonder if i have a short somewhere?
::: Thanks, Andy
::
::Sir Andrew:
::
::(And considering this post of yours being placed waaaaaay down at the very bottom of the thread, and is your latest comment:
::
::
::
::
::
::You done has went and been still are having that electrolytic connecterated back-um-wards.
::Using the reference.... your main derived..raw B+ is coming from the cathode of the 84 and is needing the positive of that( yellow mark-up) electrolytic, being connected to it.
:: The cathode of that electrolytic goes down and is connected to the top of that 270 resistor.
::I have highlighted the polarities on the print. Hee...Hee...I would be hurting also, if I was that 270 ohm unit.... but would live through it.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd
::
::
::
::
::
::Hi Ed,
Thanks for replying. I know i must seem like an idiot. So,the inside of this capacitor symbol is the positive? I have a symbol chart that shows the outside as the positive! That is where i went wrong here! I will try it again!
Thanks, Andy
::
T.
:
:T.
Hi Tom,
For what its worth. I have the caps in the right direction now. The 270 ohm resistor still overheats! I put in a 2 watt resistor where a 1 watt is ment to be. Still overheating! I have yet to find anything mis-wired. I wonder what i am missing?
Thanks, Andy
::Symbols will be different. Just remember to ALWAYS have the positive side facing the more positive part of the circuit. If one side connects to circuitry that makes its way to the rectifier cathode, then that side should be positive. If the other side connects to circuitry that eventually makes its way to the transformer center tap, then that side should be negative. When connecting an electrolytic across a cathode bias resistor, the side facing the tube's cathode should be positive, and the side facing B- (or the other side of the cathode bias resistor) should be negative. Voltage drop is going to occur across the resistor, and the side that the tube's cathode is on is going to be more positive than the other side of the resistor. That holds true for any circuit. If you have a circuit with a large bleeder resistor, and for some reason an electrolytic connects across part or all of the resistor, examine to see what part is going to be more positive and what part is going to be more negative. If you really aren't sure (very complex circuit), use Ohm's law, and figure out the voltage drops that occur across each resistor, to find out how the electrolytic should be placed in the circuit. Most radios are not complex enough to require all of that math.
::
::T.
:
:Hi Tom,
: For what its worth. I have the caps in the right direction now. The 270 ohm resistor still overheats! I put in a 2 watt resistor where a 1 watt is ment to be. Still overheating! I have yet to find anything mis-wired. I wonder what i am missing?
:
: Thanks, Andy