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Question on Audio Transformer
7/17/2007 11:46:17 PMMicro9
Have a Philco 39-36 radio with an open Primary.The Schematic show 400 ohms for the pri...Can use a universal Xformer that has 2500 ohm primary???or do I need to match the 400.It is looking into a 41 output tube single ended...
7/18/2007 12:03:41 AMLewis Linson
:Have a Philco 39-36 radio with an open Primary.The Schematic show 400 ohms for the pri...Can use a universal Xformer that has 2500 ohm primary???or do I need to match the 400.It is looking into a 41 output tube single ended...

The 400 Ohms is the DC resistance, shown for Ohmmeter checking. The 2500 Ohms is the AC impedance, which must match the output tube and the speaker, usually 3 or 8 Ohms. I don't know the output tube right offhand, but 2500 sounds like a pretty good match. If you check it with the Ohmmeter, you will find something close to 400 Ohms, I'll betcha.

Lewis


http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Webdesign_Elements/Lines/light_switch.gif

7/18/2007 12:52:40 AMPeter G Balazsy
Lewis:
you left out the code
7/18/2007 1:23:10 AMPeter G Balazsy
Lewis:
you left out the code

<img src="
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7/18/2007 12:20:17 AMpeter g balazsy
Micro9:
It's the impedance you need to think about not the DC resistance.

As it turns out it's not a hard thing to determine....lol

You need to 1st find out the turns ratio because it is THE turns ratio that will reflect the speaker's impeadance Backward into the primary winding.


A #41 tube wants to see about 10,000 ohms as the primary load impeadance.

So if you have a transformer with a turns ratio of 50:1 .... that's good because a 4 ohm speaker will reflect back 10,000 ohms since the impeadance ratio is EQUAL to the square of the turns ratio.

50x50 = 2500 x 4 = 10,000

It may seem complicated at first... lol ...but it's not too bad.

This article explains it clearly and shows you exactly how to fiqure out the turns ratio of a transformer by putting some 60hz ac into the primary with a variac until you get exactly 1 volt AC on the secondary.
Then go look at how much AC on the primary it took to develop 1 volt AC on the secondary.
So if you put in 50vac on the primary and get 1 volt on the 2ndary = a 50: 1 ratio... easy.

Read this easy article... It has a simple chart to follow too... very very good!

http://radioremembered.org/outimp.htm

7/18/2007 12:44:04 AMMicro9
:Micro9:
:It's the impedance you need to think about not the DC resistance.
:
:As it turns out it's not a hard thing to determine....lol
:
:You need to 1st find out the turns ratio because it is THE turns ratio that will reflect the speaker's impeadance Backward into the primary winding.
:
:
:A #41 tube wants to see about 10,000 ohms as the primary load impeadance.
:
:So if you have a transformer with a turns ratio of 50:1 .... that's good because a 4 ohm speaker will reflect back 10,000 ohms since the impeadance ratio is EQUAL to the square of the turns ratio.
:
:50x50 = 2500 x 4 = 10,000
:
:It may seem complicated at first... lol ...but it's not too bad.
:
:This article explains it clearly and shows you exactly how to fiqure out the turns ratio of a transformer by putting some 60hz ac into the primary with a variac until you get exactly 1 volt AC on the secondary.
:Then go look at how much AC on the primary it took to develop 1 volt AC on the secondary.
:So if you put in 50vac on the primary and get 1 volt on the 2ndary = a 50: 1 ratio... easy.
:
:Read this easy article... It has a simple chart to follow too... very very good!
:
:http://radioremembered.org/outimp.htm


Thanks a Million for the FAST replies!!!You guys always come thru!!!!!

7/18/2007 12:50:45 PMLewis Linson
While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:

I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)

Lewis

7/18/2007 3:16:26 PMLewis Linson

Corrected question::

:While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
:
:I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
:
:Lewis

7/19/2007 2:54:04 AMPeter G Balazsy
In theory I feel you ought to be able to measure current through an inductor and figure out the inductive reactance.. then go back to derive the actual inductance in Henries... I think.
But I'm no whiz here...lol

There are factors to consider about AC ohms law not just simple DC ohms law... maybe too
But you can try to use the AC ohms law calc on line.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/acohml.html
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/XLC.htm

Now as an experiment tonight I tried your trick and only came close.

I found an inductor that measures exactly 135mH.

( now my brand new $200 inductance meter specs say it can read up to 100mH and that most of their meters will read up to 150mH).. so since mine is reading 135mh I think it is maybe an ok reading.. ?? But not positive.

So I tried to see if I could try to work back into that number by other readings as you suggest.

So... with my door-bell transformer as a 60 Hz AC source...I put 16.5vAC @ 60hz through the (135mh?) inductor.

My DMM (reading AC amperes) read = .222 amps AC

Now simple ohms law says that equates to 74 ohms of (reactance/resistance?)... right?

16.5 vAC / .222 amps = 74 ohms

And it DOES seem to also jibe with the Ohms law for AC calculator on line:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/acohml.html


But when I try to see if those numbers work in the inductive reactance calculator on-line:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/XLC.htm

I seem to get differing results. Because if I plug in 74 ohms Reactance and 60 Hz ...it says the inductance should be 196mh.... NOT the 135mH I actually read on my inductance meter.

And if I do it the other way... and plug in 135mH @ 60Hz ....the calculator claims it should have 50 ohms of reactance NOT 74 ohms.

So maybe there is something missing here.

Maybe Doug Criner or another math-type guy around here can shed some light on this... lol


7/19/2007 10:12:02 AMrickd
:In theory I feel you ought to be able to measure current through an inductor and figure out the inductive reactance.. then go back to derive the actual inductance in Henries... I think.
:But I'm no whiz here...lol
:
:There are factors to consider about AC ohms law not just simple DC ohms law... maybe too
:But you can try to use the AC ohms law calc on line.
:http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/acohml.html
:http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/XLC.htm
:
:Now as an experiment tonight I tried your trick and only came close.
:
:I found an inductor that measures exactly 135mH.
:
:( now my brand new $200 inductance meter specs say it can read up to 100mH and that most of their meters will read up to 150mH).. so since mine is reading 135mh I think it is maybe an ok reading.. ?? But not positive.
:
:So I tried to see if I could try to work back into that number by other readings as you suggest.
:
:So... with my door-bell transformer as a 60 Hz AC source...I put 16.5vAC @ 60hz through the (135mh?) inductor.
:
:My DMM (reading AC amperes) read = .222 amps AC
:
:Now simple ohms law says that equates to 74 ohms of (reactance/resistance?)... right?
:
:16.5 vAC / .222 amps = 74 ohms
:
:And it DOES seem to also jibe with the Ohms law for AC calculator on line:
:http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/acohml.html
:
:
:But when I try to see if those numbers work in the inductive reactance calculator on-line:
:http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/XLC.htm
:
:I seem to get differing results. Because if I plug in 74 ohms Reactance and 60 Hz ...it says the inductance should be 196mh.... NOT the 135mH I actually read on my inductance meter.
:
:And if I do it the other way... and plug in 135mH @ 60Hz ....the calculator claims it should have 50 ohms of reactance NOT 74 ohms.
:
:So maybe there is something missing here.
:
:Maybe Doug Criner or another math-type guy around here can shed some light on this... lol
:
Maybe try a known resistor in series with the inductor, this would give a little more information to play with. The voltage drop across the resistor would give the current with out phase shift concerns. Perhaps also lowering the current a little. 60cps seems a little low even for an audio xfmr. Maybe rattle the pair with a signal generator at 400 cps and/or 1000 cps to see what ya get. Report back and I'll have some more dumb suggestions (Norm's probably laughing his .... off)
:
:
:
:
7/19/2007 11:08:32 PMLewis Linson
Now that I've gotten all this nice advice, I can't find the stinking inductor. I'll put this on hold, I'll find the inductor when I'm looking for something else and get back to you.

From the Bermuda triangle,

Lewis

7/19/2007 11:59:38 PMMarv Nuce
Hey Lewis,
Look in the fridge where you retrieved your last beer!

marv

:Now that I've gotten all this nice advice, I can't find the stinking inductor. I'll put this on hold, I'll find the inductor when I'm looking for something else and get back to you.
:
:From the Bermuda triangle,
:
:Lewis

7/20/2007 12:30:05 AMLewis Linson
:Hey Lewis,
:Look in the fridge where you retrieved your last beer!
:
:marv

Oh, Oh....Now where'd I leave the beer??
Lewis

:
::Now that I've gotten all this nice advice, I can't find the stinking inductor. I'll put this on hold, I'll find the inductor when I'm looking for something else and get back to you.
::
::From the Bermuda triangle,
::
::Lewis

7/20/2007 1:42:14 AMPeter G Balazsy
I tried that tonight.

I put a 8.5 henry choke in series wit a 1k resistor and applied 120vAC.

The AC current trrough the 1k resistor is .02 amps and the AC voltage drop across that resistor is 20v AC.
( that's exactly as I'd expect for DC also)

Now according to the Inductive Reactance formula for a 8.5 henry inductor = 3200 ohms for 60 Hz freq.

Well that doesn't add up to me.

If the 1k resistor has a voltage drop of 20vac that leave only 100vac left to drop across the inductor... right?

If the current in the resistor is only 20ma ... and all series circuits have the same current in each element... then how can this work??

If the current is truly 20ma and there is only 100V dropped across the inductor.. then the 8.5 henry inductor must look like 5000 ohms... However the impedance calculation indicates that the 8.5 henry inductor @ 60 hz looks like 3200 ohms!!

I it IS 3200 ohms and it's in series with a 1k resistor.. then the total impedance = 3200+1000 = 4200 ohms right?
But 120vAC with 4200 ohms should allow 28ma of current in the series circuit.

Now that "almost" seems right.. but not exactly.

If there is 28ma through the 1k resistor it would be dropping 28vac not the (20vac I actually measured)
... but if the 1k resistor was really truly dropping 28vac... then that would leave only 92Vac left across the inductor... and 92 Volts divided by 28ma = about 3280 ohms reactance... which is just about what the impedance formula says the inductor should look like at 60Hz... so OK
But then why do I measure only 19Vac dropped across the 1k resistor and why do I measure only 20ma through it??.... huh huh???


7/20/2007 10:48:41 AMNorm Leal
Peter

Inductance of a choke depends on DC current flowing through it. Higher the DC current lower the inductance. In this test you have no DC current. Add some DC and see what happens.

I have some chokes that show different henry ratings, depending on DC current, right on the box.

Norm

:I tried that tonight.
:
:I put a 8.5 henry choke in series wit a 1k resistor and applied 120vAC.
:
:The AC current trrough the 1k resistor is .02 amps and the AC voltage drop across that resistor is 20v AC.
:( that's exactly as I'd expect for DC also)
:
:Now according to the Inductive Reactance formula for a 8.5 henry inductor = 3200 ohms for 60 Hz freq.
:
:Well that doesn't add up to me.
:
:If the 1k resistor has a voltage drop of 20vac that leave only 100vac left to drop across the inductor... right?
:
:If the current in the resistor is only 20ma ... and all series circuits have the same current in each element... then how can this work??
:
:If the current is truly 20ma and there is only 100V dropped across the inductor.. then the 8.5 henry inductor must look like 5000 ohms... However the impedance calculation indicates that the 8.5 henry inductor @ 60 hz looks like 3200 ohms!!
:
:I it IS 3200 ohms and it's in series with a 1k resistor.. then the total impedance = 3200+1000 = 4200 ohms right?
:But 120vAC with 4200 ohms should allow 28ma of current in the series circuit.
:
:Now that "almost" seems right.. but not exactly.
:
:If there is 28ma through the 1k resistor it would be dropping 28vac not the (20vac I actually measured)
:... but if the 1k resistor was really truly dropping 28vac... then that would leave only 92Vac left across the inductor... and 92 Volts divided by 28ma = about 3280 ohms reactance... which is just about what the impedance formula says the inductor should look like at 60Hz... so OK
:But then why do I measure only 19Vac dropped across the 1k resistor and why do I measure only 20ma through it??.... huh huh???
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

7/20/2007 3:52:21 PMLewis Linson
:While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
:
:I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
:
:Lewis


Hey, everyone, I found the choke, while looking for soder-wick, but that's life in the Bermuda Triangle.

It says:

Triad Transformer
EK-020-A
1036-6414

Anybody have a Triad book or web address??
Lewis

7/20/2007 4:12:05 PMNorm Leal
Lewis

I have a book listing Triad but chokes start with letter "C". There is a C-20A rated 6 henries @ 400 ma and 60 ohms.

Norm

::While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
::
::I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
::
::Lewis
:
:
:Hey, everyone, I found the choke, while looking for soder-wick, but that's life in the Bermuda Triangle.
:
:It says:
:
:Triad Transformer
:EK-020-A
:1036-6414
:
:Anybody have a Triad book or web address??
:Lewis
:

7/21/2007 10:36:56 AMrickd
:Lewis
:
: I have a book listing Triad but chokes start with letter "C". There is a C-20A rated 6 henries @ 400 ma and 60 ohms.
:
:Norm
:
:::While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
:::
:::I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
:::
:::Lewis
::
::
::Hey, everyone, I found the choke, while looking for soder-wick, but that's life in the Bermuda Triangle.
::
::It says:
::
::Triad Transformer
::EK-020-A
::1036-6414
::
::Anybody have a Triad book or web address??
::Lewis
::

Peter, Looks like you might be trying to just add the impedence of the resistor to the inductor. Since the current and voltage are out of phase in the inductor, it's gotta be the vector sum.
I'll lay one out on the bench, measure the resistances (the inductor will have a little), measure the voltages (both) and the current.Then try to draw the graph and see how things work out.
Still concerned about working at 60 cps, think AF chokes/transformers are figured more at 400cps or 1000 cps. Letcha know what turns up. Probably tomorrow morning.
Seems like this was a lab problem more than 40 years ago. Like most, a tiny bit of "dry labbin'" was required to explain the results.

7/23/2007 1:45:02 AMPeter G Balazsy
:Peter, Looks like you might be trying to just add the impedence of the resistor to the inductor. Since the current and voltage are out of phase in the inductor, it's gotta be the vector sum.
:I'll lay one out on the bench, measure the resistances (the inductor will have a little), measure the voltages (both) and the current.Then try to draw the graph and see how things work out.
:Still concerned about working at 60 cps, think AF chokes/transformers are figured more at 400cps or 1000 cps. Letcha know what turns up. Probably tomorrow morning.
:Seems like this was a lab problem more than 40 years ago. Like most, a tiny bit of "dry labbin'" was required to explain the results.

Good Rick:
I'm curious to understand it.

I know I'm missing something here.

The inductor (choke) I am using is an AC/DC 8.5-Henry iron core "filter" choke.
It's made for 60hz power supply filter circuit use.

7/23/2007 5:11:48 PMrickd
::Peter, Looks like you might be trying to just add the impedence of the resistor to the inductor. Since the current and voltage are out of phase in the inductor, it's gotta be the vector sum.
::I'll lay one out on the bench, measure the resistances (the inductor will have a little), measure the voltages (both) and the current.Then try to draw the graph and see how things work out.
::Still concerned about working at 60 cps, think AF chokes/transformers are figured more at 400cps or 1000 cps. Letcha know what turns up. Probably tomorrow morning.
::Seems like this was a lab problem more than 40 years ago. Like most, a tiny bit of "dry labbin'" was required to explain the results.
:
:Good Rick:
:I'm curious to understand it.
:
:I know I'm missing something here.
:
:The inductor (choke) I am using is an AC/DC 8.5-Henry iron core "filter" choke.
:It's made for 60hz power supply filter circuit use.
:

Well, Been poking at this question for a few days now. Hoped to report with voltages, currents, Zs, Xs and Rs. You all will be happy to find out that capacitors follow the book calculations very closely, even at 60 cps. Using the choke (and subsequently the hv winding on the power xfmr) shown in the pic, in series with a .47 mfd cap and various resistors. Measuring the voltage drop across the resistor to establish the current, and then figuring backward, the cap drops all calculated very close. Calculating the Xls is a completely different story. Get a value, change the resistor, recheck and the Xl changes. Seems to track the current. Tried the audio op of a sig gen (which probably isn't the best sine wave). Measured freq 371 cps, at much reduced voltages obviously. Everything still pretty much tracked except the Xl value was a lot higher.
Was careful to measure and include the winding resistance in both the calculations of Zl for the choke and the transformer winding. (356 ohms and 263 ohms, respectively). Neither was large enough to affect the Zl2=R2+Xl2 calculation significantly. Currents ranged from a high of 15.18 ma down to 1.79 ma. Just having a hard time believing that choke is anywhere near 20/25 henrys. Measurements were with a RS DMM that supposedly measures true RMS. Guess I'm gonna have to drag out the scope and see what everything looks like. Any other ideas, dump 'em on me.
Thought about it some and I think we were measuring capacitors in EE lab. They probably explained why inductors were harder to mess with, but I was probably busy making sparks and missed that part.

7/23/2007 5:13:19 PMrickd
:::Peter, Looks like you might be trying to just add the impedence of the resistor to the inductor. Since the current and voltage are out of phase in the inductor, it's gotta be the vector sum.
:::I'll lay one out on the bench, measure the resistances (the inductor will have a little), measure the voltages (both) and the current.Then try to draw the graph and see how things work out.
:::Still concerned about working at 60 cps, think AF chokes/transformers are figured more at 400cps or 1000 cps. Letcha know what turns up. Probably tomorrow morning.
:::Seems like this was a lab problem more than 40 years ago. Like most, a tiny bit of "dry labbin'" was required to explain the results.
::
::Good Rick:
::I'm curious to understand it.
::
::I know I'm missing something here.
::
::The inductor (choke) I am using is an AC/DC 8.5-Henry iron core "filter" choke.
::It's made for 60hz power supply filter circuit use.
::
:
:Well, Been poking at this question for a few days now. Hoped to report with voltages, currents, Zs, Xs and Rs. You all will be happy to find out that capacitors follow the book calculations very closely, even at 60 cps. Using the choke (and subsequently the hv winding on the power xfmr) shown in the pic, in series with a .47 mfd cap and various resistors. Measuring the voltage drop across the resistor to establish the current, and then figuring backward, the cap drops all calculated very close. Calculating the Xls is a completely different story. Get a value, change the resistor, recheck and the Xl changes. Seems to track the current. Tried the audio op of a sig gen (which probably isn't the best sine wave). Measured freq 371 cps, at much reduced voltages obviously. Everything still pretty much tracked except the Xl value was a lot higher.
:Was careful to measure and include the winding resistance in both the calculations of Zl for the choke and the transformer winding. (356 ohms and 263 ohms, respectively). Neither was large enough to affect the Zl2=R2+Xl2 calculation significantly. Currents ranged from a high of 15.18 ma down to 1.79 ma. Just having a hard time believing that choke is anywhere near 20/25 henrys. Measurements were with a RS DMM that supposedly measures true RMS. Guess I'm gonna have to drag out the scope and see what everything looks like. Any other ideas, dump 'em on me.
:Thought about it some and I think we were measuring capacitors in EE lab. They probably explained why inductors were harder to mess with, but I was probably busy making sparks and missed that part.
Try that photo once more
:
:
7/23/2007 5:14:58 PMrickd
::::Peter, Looks like you might be trying to just add the impedence of the resistor to the inductor. Since the current and voltage are out of phase in the inductor, it's gotta be the vector sum.
::::I'll lay one out on the bench, measure the resistances (the inductor will have a little), measure the voltages (both) and the current.Then try to draw the graph and see how things work out.
::::Still concerned about working at 60 cps, think AF chokes/transformers are figured more at 400cps or 1000 cps. Letcha know what turns up. Probably tomorrow morning.
::::Seems like this was a lab problem more than 40 years ago. Like most, a tiny bit of "dry labbin'" was required to explain the results.
:::
:::Good Rick:
:::I'm curious to understand it.
:::
:::I know I'm missing something here.
:::
:::The inductor (choke) I am using is an AC/DC 8.5-Henry iron core "filter" choke.
:::It's made for 60hz power supply filter circuit use.
:::
::
::Well, Been poking at this question for a few days now. Hoped to report with voltages, currents, Zs, Xs and Rs. You all will be happy to find out that capacitors follow the book calculations very closely, even at 60 cps. Using the choke (and subsequently the hv winding on the power xfmr) shown in the pic, in series with a .47 mfd cap and various resistors. Measuring the voltage drop across the resistor to establish the current, and then figuring backward, the cap drops all calculated very close. Calculating the Xls is a completely different story. Get a value, change the resistor, recheck and the Xl changes. Seems to track the current. Tried the audio op of a sig gen (which probably isn't the best sine wave). Measured freq 371 cps, at much reduced voltages obviously. Everything still pretty much tracked except the Xl value was a lot higher.
::Was careful to measure and include the winding resistance in both the calculations of Zl for the choke and the transformer winding. (356 ohms and 263 ohms, respectively). Neither was large enough to affect the Zl2=R2+Xl2 calculation significantly. Currents ranged from a high of 15.18 ma down to 1.79 ma. Just having a hard time believing that choke is anywhere near 20/25 henrys. Measurements were with a RS DMM that supposedly measures true RMS. Guess I'm gonna have to drag out the scope and see what everything looks like. Any other ideas, dump 'em on me.
::Thought about it some and I think we were measuring capacitors in EE lab. They probably explained why inductors were harder to mess with, but I was probably busy making sparks and missed that part.
:Try that photo once more
:::and again

::
7/24/2007 2:48:57 AMPeter G Balazsy
Thanks Rick:
That's the same weird confusion I'm dealing with...

My DMM is supposed to be true RMS too.

I can't figure out what is really going on unless it's something to do with meter not able to read properly in this condition or something.

Have a funeral to deal with here now( My mom passed away this week

...but maybe when I get my head on right and time I think I'll try feeding it via a 1/2 wave or full wave bridge and try measuring again then since it will be pulsating DC at 60 hz and/or 120 hz.
But maybe it'll start to look differently.

7/24/2007 3:55:24 PMrickd
Peter, Sorry about your mom, both of my folks passed away this past spring. Even when it's expected, it takes some dealing with.
Think maybe hitting inductors with pulsed stuff out of rectifiers will introduce some noise or hash, but I certainly don't know. Gonna try to hunt up an audio frequency signal generator to play with. Regards

:Thanks Rick:
:That's the same weird confusion I'm dealing with...
:
:My DMM is supposed to be true RMS too.
:
:I can't figure out what is really going on unless it's something to do with meter not able to read properly in this condition or something.
:
:Have a funeral to deal with here now( My mom passed away this week
:
:...but maybe when I get my head on right and time I think I'll try feeding it via a 1/2 wave or full wave bridge and try measuring again then since it will be pulsating DC at 60 hz and/or 120 hz.
:But maybe it'll start to look differently.

7/24/2007 11:52:04 PMPeter G Balazsy
Thank you Rick:

I really hope one of us can shed some light on how to read values in a simple resistor inductor series circuit.

What's the major problem here? What are we overlooking?

7/25/2007 12:35:10 AMrickd
Maybe it's the same variable that makes big, iron inductors "swing" under different circumstances. At least the caps are acting predictably so we know the math is right. There are probably a lot of experienced people reading these posts and laughing their .....s off. Oh well, I have been laughed before and if lucky will be many times again. BTW, my Chinese cap/inductance meter says that choke in the photo is 12 Henrys. That meter's readings of smaller commercial chokes agree with the mfg's markings. Regards

:Thank you Rick:
:
:I really hope one of us can shed some light on how to read values in a simple resistor inductor series circuit.
:
:What's the major problem here? What are we overlooking?
:
:

7/21/2007 1:47:27 PMpaul zeisler
::While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
::
::I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
::
::Lewis
:
:
:Hey, everyone, I found the choke, while looking for soder-wick, but that's life in the Bermuda Triangle.
:
:It says:
:
:Triad Transformer
:EK-020-A
:1036-6414
:
:Anybody have a Triad book or web address??
:Lewis
:
7/21/2007 1:50:23 PMpaul zeisler
::While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
::
::I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
::
::Lewis
:
:
:Hey, everyone, I found the choke, while looking for soder-wick, but that's life in the Bermuda Triangle.
:
:It says:
:
:Triad Transformer
:EK-020-A
:1036-6414
:
:Anybody have a Triad book or web address??
:Lewis
:

EK020A is a 20 mh toroid avg resistance 1.1 ohm 184 ma. will drop inductance 5%

7/22/2007 10:19:59 AMLewis Linson
:::While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
:::
:::I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
:::
:::Lewis
::
::
::Hey, everyone, I found the choke, while looking for soder-wick, but that's life in the Bermuda Triangle.
::
::It says:
::
::Triad Transformer
::EK-020-A
::1036-6414
::
::Anybody have a Triad book or web address??
::Lewis
::
:
:EK020A is a 20 mh toroid avg resistance 1.1 ohm 184 ma. will drop inductance 5%

Thanks....I wondered about the resistance, thought it might be shorted inside.

Lewis

7/22/2007 10:20:07 AMLewis Linson
:::While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
:::
:::I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
:::
:::Lewis
::
::
::Hey, everyone, I found the choke, while looking for soder-wick, but that's life in the Bermuda Triangle.
::
::It says:
::
::Triad Transformer
::EK-020-A
::1036-6414
::
::Anybody have a Triad book or web address??
::Lewis
::
:
:EK020A is a 20 mh toroid avg resistance 1.1 ohm 184 ma. will drop inductance 5%

Thanks....I wondered about the resistance, thought it might be shorted inside.

Lewis



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