The 400 Ohms is the DC resistance, shown for Ohmmeter checking. The 2500 Ohms is the AC impedance, which must match the output tube and the speaker, usually 3 or 8 Ohms. I don't know the output tube right offhand, but 2500 sounds like a pretty good match. If you check it with the Ohmmeter, you will find something close to 400 Ohms, I'll betcha.
Lewis
http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Webdesign_Elements/Lines/light_switch.gif
As it turns out it's not a hard thing to determine....lol
You need to 1st find out the turns ratio because it is THE turns ratio that will reflect the speaker's impeadance Backward into the primary winding.
A #41 tube wants to see about 10,000 ohms as the primary load impeadance.
So if you have a transformer with a turns ratio of 50:1 .... that's good because a 4 ohm speaker will reflect back 10,000 ohms since the impeadance ratio is EQUAL to the square of the turns ratio.
50x50 = 2500 x 4 = 10,000
It may seem complicated at first... lol ...but it's not too bad.
This article explains it clearly and shows you exactly how to fiqure out the turns ratio of a transformer by putting some 60hz ac into the primary with a variac until you get exactly 1 volt AC on the secondary.
Then go look at how much AC on the primary it took to develop 1 volt AC on the secondary.
So if you put in 50vac on the primary and get 1 volt on the 2ndary = a 50: 1 ratio... easy.
Read this easy article... It has a simple chart to follow too... very very good!
http://radioremembered.org/outimp.htm
Thanks a Million for the FAST replies!!!You guys always come thru!!!!!
I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
Lewis
:While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
:
:I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
:
:Lewis
There are factors to consider about AC ohms law not just simple DC ohms law... maybe too
But you can try to use the AC ohms law calc on line.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/acohml.html
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/XLC.htm
Now as an experiment tonight I tried your trick and only came close.
I found an inductor that measures exactly 135mH.
( now my brand new $200 inductance meter specs say it can read up to 100mH and that most of their meters will read up to 150mH).. so since mine is reading 135mh I think it is maybe an ok reading.. ?? But not positive.
So I tried to see if I could try to work back into that number by other readings as you suggest.
So... with my door-bell transformer as a 60 Hz AC source...I put 16.5vAC @ 60hz through the (135mh?) inductor.
My DMM (reading AC amperes) read = .222 amps AC
Now simple ohms law says that equates to 74 ohms of (reactance/resistance?)... right?
16.5 vAC / .222 amps = 74 ohms
And it DOES seem to also jibe with the Ohms law for AC calculator on line:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/acohml.html
But when I try to see if those numbers work in the inductive reactance calculator on-line:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/XLC.htm
I seem to get differing results. Because if I plug in 74 ohms Reactance and 60 Hz ...it says the inductance should be 196mh.... NOT the 135mH I actually read on my inductance meter.
And if I do it the other way... and plug in 135mH @ 60Hz ....the calculator claims it should have 50 ohms of reactance NOT 74 ohms.
So maybe there is something missing here.
Maybe Doug Criner or another math-type guy around here can shed some light on this... lol
From the Bermuda triangle,
Lewis
marv
:Now that I've gotten all this nice advice, I can't find the stinking inductor. I'll put this on hold, I'll find the inductor when I'm looking for something else and get back to you.
:
:From the Bermuda triangle,
:
:Lewis
Oh, Oh....Now where'd I leave the beer??
Lewis
:
::Now that I've gotten all this nice advice, I can't find the stinking inductor. I'll put this on hold, I'll find the inductor when I'm looking for something else and get back to you.
::
::From the Bermuda triangle,
::
::Lewis
I put a 8.5 henry choke in series wit a 1k resistor and applied 120vAC.
The AC current trrough the 1k resistor is .02 amps and the AC voltage drop across that resistor is 20v AC.
( that's exactly as I'd expect for DC also)
Now according to the Inductive Reactance formula for a 8.5 henry inductor = 3200 ohms for 60 Hz freq.
Well that doesn't add up to me.
If the 1k resistor has a voltage drop of 20vac that leave only 100vac left to drop across the inductor... right?
If the current in the resistor is only 20ma ... and all series circuits have the same current in each element... then how can this work??
If the current is truly 20ma and there is only 100V dropped across the inductor.. then the 8.5 henry inductor must look like 5000 ohms... However the impedance calculation indicates that the 8.5 henry inductor @ 60 hz looks like 3200 ohms!!
I it IS 3200 ohms and it's in series with a 1k resistor.. then the total impedance = 3200+1000 = 4200 ohms right?
But 120vAC with 4200 ohms should allow 28ma of current in the series circuit.
Now that "almost" seems right.. but not exactly.
If there is 28ma through the 1k resistor it would be dropping 28vac not the (20vac I actually measured)
... but if the 1k resistor was really truly dropping 28vac... then that would leave only 92Vac left across the inductor... and 92 Volts divided by 28ma = about 3280 ohms reactance... which is just about what the impedance formula says the inductor should look like at 60Hz... so OK
But then why do I measure only 19Vac dropped across the 1k resistor and why do I measure only 20ma through it??.... huh huh???
Inductance of a choke depends on DC current flowing through it. Higher the DC current lower the inductance. In this test you have no DC current. Add some DC and see what happens.
I have some chokes that show different henry ratings, depending on DC current, right on the box.
Norm
:I tried that tonight.
:
:I put a 8.5 henry choke in series wit a 1k resistor and applied 120vAC.
:
:The AC current trrough the 1k resistor is .02 amps and the AC voltage drop across that resistor is 20v AC.
:( that's exactly as I'd expect for DC also)
:
:Now according to the Inductive Reactance formula for a 8.5 henry inductor = 3200 ohms for 60 Hz freq.
:
:Well that doesn't add up to me.
:
:If the 1k resistor has a voltage drop of 20vac that leave only 100vac left to drop across the inductor... right?
:
:If the current in the resistor is only 20ma ... and all series circuits have the same current in each element... then how can this work??
:
:If the current is truly 20ma and there is only 100V dropped across the inductor.. then the 8.5 henry inductor must look like 5000 ohms... However the impedance calculation indicates that the 8.5 henry inductor @ 60 hz looks like 3200 ohms!!
:
:I it IS 3200 ohms and it's in series with a 1k resistor.. then the total impedance = 3200+1000 = 4200 ohms right?
:But 120vAC with 4200 ohms should allow 28ma of current in the series circuit.
:
:Now that "almost" seems right.. but not exactly.
:
:If there is 28ma through the 1k resistor it would be dropping 28vac not the (20vac I actually measured)
:... but if the 1k resistor was really truly dropping 28vac... then that would leave only 92Vac left across the inductor... and 92 Volts divided by 28ma = about 3280 ohms reactance... which is just about what the impedance formula says the inductor should look like at 60Hz... so OK
:But then why do I measure only 19Vac dropped across the 1k resistor and why do I measure only 20ma through it??.... huh huh???
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
Hey, everyone, I found the choke, while looking for soder-wick, but that's life in the Bermuda Triangle.
It says:
Triad Transformer
EK-020-A
1036-6414
Anybody have a Triad book or web address??
Lewis
I have a book listing Triad but chokes start with letter "C". There is a C-20A rated 6 henries @ 400 ma and 60 ohms.
Norm
::While we're on the subject of impedance, here's a question:
::
::I have a choke of unknown value. I seems to be an audio rather than power device. If I read the DC resistance, and then put one Volt across it and read the current, could I then find the impedance? Knowing the impedance at 60 Hz., maybe then use the right triangle....X^2=sqr(A^2+B^2)....(can't spell Phyhtagra whatever his name was) and a little trig and the reactance formula(XsubL=2 Pi F L) to find a reasonable value for the reactance in Henrys? (I can spell Henry)
::
::Lewis
:
:
:Hey, everyone, I found the choke, while looking for soder-wick, but that's life in the Bermuda Triangle.
:
:It says:
:
:Triad Transformer
:EK-020-A
:1036-6414
:
:Anybody have a Triad book or web address??
:Lewis
:
Peter, Looks like you might be trying to just add the impedence of the resistor to the inductor. Since the current and voltage are out of phase in the inductor, it's gotta be the vector sum.
I'll lay one out on the bench, measure the resistances (the inductor will have a little), measure the voltages (both) and the current.Then try to draw the graph and see how things work out.
Still concerned about working at 60 cps, think AF chokes/transformers are figured more at 400cps or 1000 cps. Letcha know what turns up. Probably tomorrow morning.
Seems like this was a lab problem more than 40 years ago. Like most, a tiny bit of "dry labbin'" was required to explain the results.
Good Rick:
I'm curious to understand it.
I know I'm missing something here.
The inductor (choke) I am using is an AC/DC 8.5-Henry iron core "filter" choke.
It's made for 60hz power supply filter circuit use.
My DMM is supposed to be true RMS too.
I can't figure out what is really going on unless it's something to do with meter not able to read properly in this condition or something.
Have a funeral to deal with here now( My mom passed away this week
...but maybe when I get my head on right and time I think I'll try feeding it via a 1/2 wave or full wave bridge and try measuring again then since it will be pulsating DC at 60 hz and/or 120 hz.
But maybe it'll start to look differently.
:Thanks Rick:
:That's the same weird confusion I'm dealing with...
:
:My DMM is supposed to be true RMS too.
:
:I can't figure out what is really going on unless it's something to do with meter not able to read properly in this condition or something.
:
:Have a funeral to deal with here now( My mom passed away this week
:
:...but maybe when I get my head on right and time I think I'll try feeding it via a 1/2 wave or full wave bridge and try measuring again then since it will be pulsating DC at 60 hz and/or 120 hz.
:But maybe it'll start to look differently.
I really hope one of us can shed some light on how to read values in a simple resistor inductor series circuit.
What's the major problem here? What are we overlooking?
:Thank you Rick:
:
:I really hope one of us can shed some light on how to read values in a simple resistor inductor series circuit.
:
:What's the major problem here? What are we overlooking?
:
:
EK020A is a 20 mh toroid avg resistance 1.1 ohm 184 ma. will drop inductance 5%
Thanks....I wondered about the resistance, thought it might be shorted inside.
Lewis
Thanks....I wondered about the resistance, thought it might be shorted inside.
Lewis