Home  Resources  References  Tubes  Forums  Links  Support 
type 15 tubes
7/10/2007 8:53:47 PMian
In one of my radios there are 2 type 15 tubes. They test 20% on both of my testers, the man I bought them from had written 80/100 on the pair. When in the radio, the radio turns on but does not recieve any stations. All other tubes are good and the chassis is restored. Where stations should be the radio makes strange noises and I think this is caused by these tubes. The 15's are thr R.F and I.F tubes. Is there a special scale for type 15 tubes? For example if certain tubes test 20% or 30% and they are considerd good for that type. Is this the case with type 15 tubes? Thanks Ian
7/10/2007 9:58:08 PMNorm Leal
Hi Ian

The 15 is a 2 volt filament tube similar to the 6 volt 39/44. Might be your tester reading low? Be careful with 15 tubes. Not too many around and expensive. Even weak they should still operate ok.

You must have a battery radio? Be sure battery voltages are high enough.

Norm

:In one of my radios there are 2 type 15 tubes. They test 20% on both of my testers, the man I bought them from had written 80/100 on the pair. When in the radio, the radio turns on but does not recieve any stations. All other tubes are good and the chassis is restored. Where stations should be the radio makes strange noises and I think this is caused by these tubes. The 15's are thr R.F and I.F tubes. Is there a special scale for type 15 tubes? For example if certain tubes test 20% or 30% and they are considerd good for that type. Is this the case with type 15 tubes? Thanks Ian

7/10/2007 10:17:02 PMIan
yes this is a zenith 6v62, when touched the tubes make funny noises. I finished converting this to an ac radio, someone had started to convert it in the 50's. I tested both tubes on two different testers, and they both read 20%, everything else seems to be in order and these are mostlikely the problems. I installed a full wave rectifier and a 120-6 volt transformer, this transformer puts out 3 amps. This is not enough for the radio, and the transformer overheats. How many amps did 6 volt batteries have?
Thanks Ian
7/11/2007 10:08:40 AMNorm Leal
Ian

6 volts @ 3 amps should be enough. What did you do with the vibrator? Most vibrators operate at 115 cycles. If you are using 60 cycles into the vibrator transformer it will be drawing too much current.

You could rewire filaments of the 15's so they have 6 volts and use 39 tubes. These tubes are less expensive and hold up better.

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/251/M0025251.pdf

Norm

:yes this is a zenith 6v62, when touched the tubes make funny noises. I finished converting this to an ac radio, someone had started to convert it in the 50's. I tested both tubes on two different testers, and they both read 20%, everything else seems to be in order and these are mostlikely the problems. I installed a full wave rectifier and a 120-6 volt transformer, this transformer puts out 3 amps. This is not enough for the radio, and the transformer overheats. How many amps did 6 volt batteries have?
:Thanks Ian

7/11/2007 11:50:48 AMIan
thanks, how could i get the 60 cycles up to 120 cycles? the vibrator has been removed, the transformer gets 6 volts ac, and then after the trans former a bridge rectifier makeing 250 volts dc for the b+.
7/11/2007 11:52:57 AMian
would a transformer with a higher amp output do the job without changeing cycle speed?
7/11/2007 11:56:15 AMNorm Leal
Ian

You could try a larger transformer but expect the vibrator transformer would get hot. Not easy to double the AC input frequency. Best to use a power transformer with high voltage winding and eliminate the vibrator transformer.

Norm

:would a transformer with a higher amp output do the job without changeing cycle speed?

7/11/2007 12:05:34 PMian
not easy to change input frequency? is it possible with simple parts?(capacitors, resistors, diodes, ect)
7/11/2007 1:09:24 PMNorm Leal
You can use simple parts but the circuit requires work. First change AC 60 cycles to DC. Then build up an oscillator to operate and drive at 120 cycles.

Maybe someone reading this has a unit already built?

Norm

:not easy to change input frequency? is it possible with simple parts?(capacitors, resistors, diodes, ect)

7/11/2007 1:30:01 PMian
thanks , I think I will go with the first idea. I will go buy a power transformer with the right voltages.
7/11/2007 4:22:19 PMEdd



:thanks , I think I will go with the first idea. I will go buy a power transformer with the right voltages.

7/12/2007 12:50:22 AMThomas Dermody
If you are scratching your head about the 24 volt transformer as I was for a second, look at his schematic carefully. You'll notice that the way the full wave rectifier is wired, it's going to be supplying 12 volts, not 24. Now, that still is too high for your 6 volt transformer. However, the transformer was originally fed 6 volts to each half of the center tapped winding, and he is feeding 12 volts across the entire winding, which is fine. The center tap of the vibrator transformer primary is left unconnected.

T.

7/12/2007 3:04:56 AMPeter G Balazsy
Hey Edd:

That's a nice schematic drawing you have there. What program or utility do you use to draw that? I'm assuming it has ready made schematic symbols etc.

7/12/2007 2:39:24 PMEdd
:Hey Edd:
:
:That's a nice schematic drawing you have there. What program or utility do you use to draw that? I'm assuming it has ready made schematic symbols etc.




Wel l l l...you see, its like this...I initially Googled for a basic " full wave bridge circuit " and then further opted for. THIS particular website as having the required basic schema
desired and this particular pictoral me...me...PICK ME as being of the correct basic sizing and with all of the schema info that I needed, or that I could further amend to my particular situation.
[ My acquisition of that particular schema being done, as I have explained previously on this site, as "acquiring a picture" via its " properties" URL listing.]

If you will look closely at that pic you will find it incorporating all of the fundamental components that I then just amended, snipped out, shifted around, added lines or components to, or replicated to get my final schematic.

That is accomplished by the saving of the schema "picture" by a positioning of a cursor pointer atop the image and initiating a right click for a dialog box and then opting for the SAVE PICTURE AS via a highlighting and then a left click to get yet another associative SAVE PICTURE dialog box, whereupon you cursor reposition to SAVE and initiate a left click to save the image to your pictures file.

Go to your
pictures file for a viewing and find the "picture" just copied and cursor position upon its image and right click upon it to acqire a dialog box. Cursor scan up those options and zero in on the central area option of OPEN WITH and have that line highlighted and further cursor slide across it to the right and there will then be further options pop open...you then cursor drop down to PAINT and cursor highlight that line and then initiate mouse left...or right click and....BAMMMMM .

Your reproduced schematic will reappear in a digitized bit mapped format of PAINT that you can then cut / paste / shrink / enlarge / skew / magnify / reduce / color / replicate / print / draw / rotate / invert / you name it. That is the same medium with which I have created some of those 'lebenteen feet wide by 9 and thirteen seventeenths high.... detailed schemas..on up to the limits of pixelation onset from the
deficiencies within the origination source materiel.



By this technique of excerpting symbols, I have billions of possibilities of sourcing, or I can further custom resize or reformat them to my specific needs at the time.

As Mikie says "Try it....you'll like it !" ..errr or was it... "Let Mikie try it...he'll eat anything" ?



BTW..anyone think that this[ HERE ]
just
possibly
might be enough backup instrumentation to "get er done" ???


73's de Edd






7/13/2007 4:30:25 AMPeter G Balazsy
Thanks EDD... but sheesh... what a lot of work.

I have photo-shop and can certainly import such clipped images into it... and so on as you did...

But what you ended up with just seemed so well done and clean that I just assumed it was done EASILY with a little on-line utility or such.
I have used "gliphy.com" and that works but not as well as I'd like. I want a simple schematic symbol library and a drawing tool... FREE and on-line.. lol
Too much to ask? I fear?

Well you certainly did a lot of creative work on that little post there EDD.. I guess like most of us you too have too much time on your creative little hands!

7/12/2007 1:53:27 PMThomas Dermody
A couple of questions I have are:

What kind of tube tester are you using? Make sure that whatever it is, its resistors are on value. If the tester's resistors are drifted, you'll get inaccurate readings. In my EICO 625, the resistors for the #2 Selector setting were drifted, and I'd always get weak tube readings with that setting. If you find that your #15 tubes are weak, and you replace them with either new ones of the same type, or 39/44 tubes, you can try to rejuvenate them later. Let me know what you wind up doing, and I will explain a couple of methods of rejuvenation, should you want to do that.

The other question regards whether or not you replaced the condensers in your radio, though I assume that you have, because you say that the chassis has been restored. Bad capacitors, however, can cause the RF section to make funny noises and not function properly.

Finally, Edd's idea for the vibrator transformer is a good one. I think that you should use a 2 or 3 ampere transformer specifically for the vibrator transformer, though, or use a 6 to 8 ampere transformer for the entire radio. I do not think that a 3 ampere transformer is sufficient for the entire radio. Similar car radios draw at least 6 amperes. If you decide to use one transformer for the entire radio, you can use a center tapped 12 volt transformer, and use the ends of the 12 volt winding with a bridge rectifier (four diodes) to feed the 120 cycles pulsating DC to your vibrator transformer primary (along with the resonance capacitor Edd suggests placing across the vibrator transformer's primary, in order to round out the bottoms of the waves). Then use each half of the 12 volt winding to feed 1/2 of the tube heaters (roughly). Idealy, if some tube heaters draw more current than others, you want to balance it out so that each half of the winding is having a similar current draw put upon it. With this electrical balance, a physical balance of tubes might not occur.

Thomas

:In one of my radios there are 2 type 15 tubes. They test 20% on both of my testers, the man I bought them from had written 80/100 on the pair. When in the radio, the radio turns on but does not recieve any stations. All other tubes are good and the chassis is restored. Where stations should be the radio makes strange noises and I think this is caused by these tubes. The 15's are thr R.F and I.F tubes. Is there a special scale for type 15 tubes? For example if certain tubes test 20% or 30% and they are considerd good for that type. Is this the case with type 15 tubes? Thanks Ian

7/13/2007 12:50:57 AMIan
I had just planned on finding a transformer at the michigan antique radio club extravaganza, today.The b+ in this radio is 250 volts. So I am looking for a transformer with a 250 volt winding, or a center tapped 500 volt winding, and one six volt winding. I am new to the radio restoration, and electronics, and only 14(today's my birthday) and can't do very complex repairs without help from my grandpa. When i get home from the radio show, I will certantly check the resistors in both my testers, a eico 625,and heathkit tc-1. I was really rushed to fix this radio(6v62)I had 10 days to refinish the cabinet and restore the chassis. I got every thing done on time(the rado dosent have to work to be entered in a contest),but 2 days before we had to have the radio completed, I discovered I had the wrong grile cloth. So the next day the right cloth was on overnight mail so i could get it in time. Well it didnt get here on time, so i spent 10 days doing a speed restoration just to be dissapointed by the post office.
Thanks to every one that has helped me on all of my many posts and those that will help me on my future ones.
7/13/2007 9:29:08 AMRadiodoc
Ian,

Happy BD! May you have many, many more. Aaah, to be 14 again...

Radiodoc
***********


:I had just planned on finding a transformer at the michigan antique radio club extravaganza, today.The b+ in this radio is 250 volts. So I am looking for a transformer with a 250 volt winding, or a center tapped 500 volt winding, and one six volt winding. I am new to the radio restoration, and electronics, and only 14(today's my birthday) and can't do very complex repairs without help from my grandpa. When i get home from the radio show, I will certantly check the resistors in both my testers, a eico 625,and heathkit tc-1. I was really rushed to fix this radio(6v62)I had 10 days to refinish the cabinet and restore the chassis. I got every thing done on time(the rado dosent have to work to be entered in a contest),but 2 days before we had to have the radio completed, I discovered I had the wrong grile cloth. So the next day the right cloth was on overnight mail so i could get it in time. Well it didnt get here on time, so i spent 10 days doing a speed restoration just to be dissapointed by the post office.
: Thanks to every one that has helped me on all of my many posts and those that will help me on my future ones.

7/13/2007 3:40:22 PMThomas Dermody
That's about when I started working with radios, though I wasn't refinishing back then. I built a nice amplifier when I was 15, and built a regenerative radio when I was 14, though it didn't work very well, and still, whenever I try the schematic from Alfred Morgan's Boy's First Book of Radio and Electronics, it won't work. I just turned 28 recently (June 28th!!).

The idea Edd is giving you is a simple one, though it would help to have a scope so that you could see what the wave form looked like. If you can fit a regular AC transformer on the chassis, then that might be the better route to go.

As far as the EICO 625 is concerned, you want to check the resistors under the SELECTOR switch. Those drift. Remove one lead of each one as you test it. The carbon composition ones might be bad.

T.

7/13/2007 11:04:42 PMIan
I have and occilliscope a heathkit, that my grandpa built in 1953, he still needs to teachme to use it. At the showtoday i found a chassis from a 6s245 or something, I also got riders manuals 7 and 8 and learned that the b+ for that radio is around 320 volts. I havent bought it yet so if there are any objections please tell me. I will get a big resistor to lower the voltage to work with, or some other components. Thanks for all the help.


© 1989-2025, Nostalgia Air



Sir Ian:

I might also throw in this very simple possibilty, should you want to try it out first for its feasibility.

Presently, you were having 60~ into your unit, while the vibrator powered unit was producing in the order of ~ 115 cycles for its operation.
Therefore, you are wanting to get closer to operating at the design frequency of the smaller core mass of the original vibrator transformer.



If you were to take two stud power diodes of the adequate current rating for the power level to be handled, and wire them into a fullwave rectifier,and just feed the raw output into the vib transformer, you would then be feeding it with 120~.

However, the one fallacy of that waveform produced would be its asymmetrical variance from being a pure sinusoidal waveform.

The new waveforms positive nodes are going to be appreciably FULLER than the negative node portions of the waveform.

Now here is where a little experimentation aspect comes into play for its evaluation:

If a paper/poly cap were to be shunted across the primary winding of that vibrator transformer, it would then form a parallel L-C resonant circuit in conjunction with the primary inductance and the flywheel effect of being in resonance should fill in, round up and enhance the negative nodes a bit
and bring the waveform into an ever truer quasi-sine shaping.

That differentiality would be integrated and balanced out in the rectified output of the secondary as it accumulates in the secondary filter capacitor(s).

Now, not having your vibrator transforner on hand to measure its inductive value and thereby being able to compute the required value of optimal resonating capacitance...I can only say that it will be in the several microfarads of value and one could initially start with a set value and then....if you are a scope person..monitor the amplitude and purity of the waveform as additional capacitance is shunted on...or merely monitor the developed output voltage from the power supply, as max will develop as the unit comes ever closer into 120~ resonance.



Reference:






Thassit



73's de Edd