i,m getting beat up by this one i must admit,must be to tired to think. when i got it the wire-wound resistors in the middle of the chassis were broken but i think i have them figured out.the one next to the chassis is 2 sections,the one on the left connected to 1st 24a cathode is 1.5k, the section to the right connected to the 2nd. 24a cathode,160 ohms.

the other wire-wound is also 2 sections,the section to the left is 20k,the section to the right is 65k. are these values right for wire-wound in an a.k.? sounds high so i probably have it wrong!
of coarse very weak audio and 1 of the 45's is glowing blue,it's not the tube,i switched them and the glow did not follow the tube.
any help appreciated,phil

See if one section of the audio driver transformer is open from the center tap to the grid of each of the 45's.

MRO

:i,m getting beat up by this one i must admit,must be to tired to think. when i got it the wire-wound resistors in the middle of the chassis were broken but i think i have them figured out.the one next to the chassis is 2 sections,the one on the left connected to 1st 24a cathode is 1.5k, the section to the right connected to the 2nd. 24a cathode,160 ohms.
:
:the other wire-wound is also 2 sections,the section to the left is 20k,the section to the right is 65k. are these values right for wire-wound in an a.k.? sounds high so i probably have it wrong!
:of coarse very weak audio and 1 of the 45's is glowing blue,it's not the tube,i switched them and the glow did not follow the tube.
:any help appreciated,phil

Have you checked the voltage at each pin, etc.?

:See if one section of the audio driver transformer is open from the center tap to the grid of each of the 45's.
:
:MRO
:
:
:
:
::i,m getting beat up by this one i must admit,must be to tired to think. when i got it the wire-wound resistors in the middle of the chassis were broken but i think i have them figured out.the one next to the chassis is 2 sections,the one on the left connected to 1st 24a cathode is 1.5k, the section to the right connected to the 2nd. 24a cathode,160 ohms.
::
::the other wire-wound is also 2 sections,the section to the left is 20k,the section to the right is 65k. are these values right for wire-wound in an a.k.? sounds high so i probably have it wrong!
::of coarse very weak audio and 1 of the 45's is glowing blue,it's not the tube,i switched them and the glow did not follow the tube.
::any help appreciated,phil

mark nailed it,one side is open,1 grid is neg.32 the other is pos. 2. is there an easy fix short of cooking it out and finding the open?

:Have you checked the voltage at each pin, etc.?
:
:
::See if one section of the audio driver transformer is open from the center tap to the grid of each of the 45's.
::
::MRO
::
::
::
::
:::i,m getting beat up by this one i must admit,must be to tired to think. when i got it the wire-wound resistors in the middle of the chassis were broken but i think i have them figured out.the one next to the chassis is 2 sections,the one on the left connected to 1st 24a cathode is 1.5k, the section to the right connected to the 2nd. 24a cathode,160 ohms.
:::
:::the other wire-wound is also 2 sections,the section to the left is 20k,the section to the right is 65k. are these values right for wire-wound in an a.k.? sounds high so i probably have it wrong!
:::of coarse very weak audio and 1 of the 45's is glowing blue,it's not the tube,i switched them and the glow did not follow the tube.
:::any help appreciated,phil

You may want to consider buying an push pull audio interstage transformer from Antique Electronic Supply or some other dealer. Tho more complicated, you could copy a tube phase inverter circuit from a more modern set. If you cook it out you may luck out and find the open tranformer wire. Just for kicks try running it with the blue tube removed as it is sucking alot of DC current through the output tranformer. You may see an improvement in the audio output. I have seen on some sets 470K resistors tied to ground in the grid circuit even though the driver transformer is also tied center tap to ground. You may want to add them as a future precaution to prevent the positive swing on the grid if the transformer fails again. I hate to see a good 45 melt down.

MRO

:mark nailed it,one side is open,1 grid is neg.32 the other is pos. 2. is there an easy fix short of cooking it out and finding the open?

thanks mark,what about the two wire-wounds in the center of chassis?there are 2 of them,one is center-tapped,the other is close too center tapped.i have one of them figured out,a 1.5k and 160 ohm.the other appears to be tied to grids of 1st and 2nd r.f. tubes.are these 6k?
thanks,phil

:You may want to consider buying an push pull audio interstage transformer from Antique Electronic Supply or some other dealer. Tho more complicated, you could copy a tube phase inverter circuit from a more modern set. If you cook it out you may luck out and find the open tranformer wire. Just for kicks try running it with the blue tube removed as it is sucking alot of DC current through the output tranformer. You may see an improvement in the audio output. I have seen on some sets 470K resistors tied to ground in the grid circuit even though the driver transformer is also tied center tap to ground. You may want to add them as a future precaution to prevent the positive swing on the grid if the transformer fails again. I hate to see a good 45 melt down.
:
:MRO
:
:
:
::mark nailed it,one side is open,1 grid is neg.32 the other is pos. 2. is there an easy fix short of cooking it out and finding the open?
:

From the schematic: One section should be 20K ohms and the other 65K ohms. The center tap of the resistors goes to the 1st RF screen grid. The 20K section goes to the 2nd and 3rd RF screen grids. The 65K section goes to the B+ line at the 2nd filter choke. The schematic, which is quite clear, is under resources on this site. Some of the other model 60 listings show the location and function of the under the chasis components. I hope this helps.

MRO

:thanks mark,what about the two wire-wounds in the center of chassis?there are 2 of them,one is center-tapped,the other is close too center tapped.i have one of them figured out,a 1.5k and 160 ohm.the other appears to be tied to grids of 1st and 2nd r.f. tubes.are these 6k?
:thanks,phil
:
:

Are you sure that the radio is the early version of model 60c? I just took another look at the different chasis. The later model 60 and 60c chasis have the stacked tapped resistors. The early model does not show it that way. Look at just the model 60 resources and see if it compares with your set.

MRO

:From the schematic: One section should be 20K ohms and the other 65K ohms. The center tap of the resistors goes to the 1st RF screen grid. The 20K section goes to the 2nd and 3rd RF screen grids. The 65K section goes to the B+ line at the 2nd filter choke. The schematic, which is quite clear, is under resources on this site. Some of the other model 60 listings show the location and function of the under the chasis components. I hope this helps.
:
:MRO
:
:
:
:
:
::thanks mark,what about the two wire-wounds in the center of chassis?there are 2 of them,one is center-tapped,the other is close too center tapped.i have one of them figured out,a 1.5k and 160 ohm.the other appears to be tied to grids of 1st and 2nd r.f. tubes.are these 6k?
::thanks,phil
::
::

at this point i'm not sure of what it is.the is confusing/conflicting info on it.it has 4 separate variables with the belts,not the ganged tuning cap.the volume control appears to be the dual version.do you know the value of the stacked resistors?can you point me to a chassis veiw of early 60's?

:Are you sure that the radio is the early version of model 60c? I just took another look at the different chasis. The later model 60 and 60c chasis have the stacked tapped resistors. The early model does not show it that way. Look at just the model 60 resources and see if it compares with your set.
:
:
:MRO
:
:
:
:
::From the schematic: One section should be 20K ohms and the other 65K ohms. The center tap of the resistors goes to the 1st RF screen grid. The 20K section goes to the 2nd and 3rd RF screen grids. The 65K section goes to the B+ line at the 2nd filter choke. The schematic, which is quite clear, is under resources on this site. Some of the other model 60 listings show the location and function of the under the chasis components. I hope this helps.
::
::MRO
::
::
::
::
::
:::thanks mark,what about the two wire-wounds in the center of chassis?there are 2 of them,one is center-tapped,the other is close too center tapped.i have one of them figured out,a 1.5k and 160 ohm.the other appears to be tied to grids of 1st and 2nd r.f. tubes.are these 6k?
:::thanks,phil
:::
:::

Try this and see if it compares: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/421/M0001421.pdf

Or just look in the resources on this site under Atwater Kent model 60 It shows the differences between the late and early models in a chart.

MRO

:at this point i'm not sure of what it is.the is confusing/conflicting info on it.it has 4 separate variables with the belts,not the ganged tuning cap.the volume control appears to be the dual version.do you know the value of the stacked resistors?can you point me to a chassis veiw of early 60's?
:
::Are you sure that the radio is the early version of model 60c? I just took another look at the different chasis. The later model 60 and 60c chasis have the stacked tapped resistors. The early model does not show it that way. Look at just the model 60 resources and see if it compares with your set.
::
::
::MRO
::
::
::
::
:::From the schematic: One section should be 20K ohms and the other 65K ohms. The center tap of the resistors goes to the 1st RF screen grid. The 20K section goes to the 2nd and 3rd RF screen grids. The 65K section goes to the B+ line at the 2nd filter choke. The schematic, which is quite clear, is under resources on this site. Some of the other model 60 listings show the location and function of the under the chasis components. I hope this helps.
:::
:::MRO
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
::::thanks mark,what about the two wire-wounds in the center of chassis?there are 2 of them,one is center-tapped,the other is close too center tapped.i have one of them figured out,a 1.5k and 160 ohm.the other appears to be tied to grids of 1st and 2nd r.f. tubes.are these 6k?
::::thanks,phil
::::
::::

thanks mark,when i get home i'll check and repost.

:Try this and see if it compares: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/421/M0001421.pdf
:
:
:Or just look in the resources on this site under Atwater Kent model 60 It shows the differences between the late and early models in a chart.
:
:
:MRO
:
::at this point i'm not sure of what it is.the is confusing/conflicting info on it.it has 4 separate variables with the belts,not the ganged tuning cap.the volume control appears to be the dual version.do you know the value of the stacked resistors?can you point me to a chassis veiw of early 60's?
::
:::Are you sure that the radio is the early version of model 60c? I just took another look at the different chasis. The later model 60 and 60c chasis have the stacked tapped resistors. The early model does not show it that way. Look at just the model 60 resources and see if it compares with your set.
:::
:::
:::MRO
:::
:::
:::
:::
::::From the schematic: One section should be 20K ohms and the other 65K ohms. The center tap of the resistors goes to the 1st RF screen grid. The 20K section goes to the 2nd and 3rd RF screen grids. The 65K section goes to the B+ line at the 2nd filter choke. The schematic, which is quite clear, is under resources on this site. Some of the other model 60 listings show the location and function of the under the chasis components. I hope this helps.
::::
::::MRO
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
:::::thanks mark,what about the two wire-wounds in the center of chassis?there are 2 of them,one is center-tapped,the other is close too center tapped.i have one of them figured out,a 1.5k and 160 ohm.the other appears to be tied to grids of 1st and 2nd r.f. tubes.are these 6k?
:::::thanks,phil
:::::
:::::

o.k.,i checked the chassis layout again,it looks like the later version but it can't be,has separate variables and the list says late version has 4 rotors mounted on a common shaft,and the wire-wounds appear different but the carbon resistors are layed out like the late version. i took out the 60k and the 20k i had replaced the wire-wounds with and put in 2 3.3k's and i'm back where i started,very low volume and only 1 station,a strong local 1530a.m..
now for the weird stuff. i removed the blue 45 to prevent damage,no change.i then jumped between the speaker plug terminal m2 to the last 27's grid and much improved volume and now more stations.how come?
i know i need to replace/repair transformer but i would like to know why jumping these connections makes thing better,just trying to understand,phil

:thanks mark,when i get home i'll check and repost.
:
:
::Try this and see if it compares: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/421/M0001421.pdf
::
::
::Or just look in the resources on this site under Atwater Kent model 60 It shows the differences between the late and early models in a chart.
::
::
::MRO
::
:::at this point i'm not sure of what it is.the is confusing/conflicting info on it.it has 4 separate variables with the belts,not the ganged tuning cap.the volume control appears to be the dual version.do you know the value of the stacked resistors?can you point me to a chassis veiw of early 60's?
:::
::::Are you sure that the radio is the early version of model 60c? I just took another look at the different chasis. The later model 60 and 60c chasis have the stacked tapped resistors. The early model does not show it that way. Look at just the model 60 resources and see if it compares with your set.
::::
::::
::::MRO
::::
::::
::::
::::
:::::From the schematic: One section should be 20K ohms and the other 65K ohms. The center tap of the resistors goes to the 1st RF screen grid. The 20K section goes to the 2nd and 3rd RF screen grids. The 65K section goes to the B+ line at the 2nd filter choke. The schematic, which is quite clear, is under resources on this site. Some of the other model 60 listings show the location and function of the under the chasis components. I hope this helps.
:::::
:::::MRO
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::::thanks mark,what about the two wire-wounds in the center of chassis?there are 2 of them,one is center-tapped,the other is close too center tapped.i have one of them figured out,a 1.5k and 160 ohm.the other appears to be tied to grids of 1st and 2nd r.f. tubes.are these 6k?
::::::thanks,phil
::::::
::::::

Whoa! Hold on there young feller. You are trying to do too many things at once. Doing more than one thing at a time is more than what the male mind can handle. Put the RF section back the way it was. We don't know yet which radio you have. We do know that your audio section is defective. The RF section may be OK. Fix the audio section first. It is possible that the audio driver transformer on the plate side is also open. You may have inadvertently supplied the driver tube with B+ voltage so it can operate. One caution, don't start connecting things where they don't belong.
A good practice is to handle your troubleshooting a single radio section at a time. For example: power supply, audio, RF. Is this even a model 60. Sometimes the radio cabinet does not always reflect the correct model number. Many Atwaters will fit into many different cabinets. What does the chasis say?

MRO

:o.k.,i checked the chassis layout again,it looks like the later version but it can't be,has separate variables and the list says late version has 4 rotors mounted on a common shaft,and the wire-wounds appear different but the carbon resistors are layed out like the late version. i took out the 60k and the 20k i had replaced the wire-wounds with and put in 2 3.3k's and i'm back where i started,very low volume and only 1 station,a strong local 1530a.m..
:now for the weird stuff. i removed the blue 45 to prevent damage,no change.i then jumped between the speaker plug terminal m2 to the last 27's grid and much improved volume and now more stations.how come?
:i know i need to replace/repair transformer but i would like to know why jumping these connections makes thing better,just trying to understand,phil
:
:
::thanks mark,when i get home i'll check and repost.
::
::
:::Try this and see if it compares: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/421/M0001421.pdf
:::
:::
:::Or just look in the resources on this site under Atwater Kent model 60 It shows the differences between the late and early models in a chart.
:::
:::
:::MRO
:::
::::at this point i'm not sure of what it is.the is confusing/conflicting info on it.it has 4 separate variables with the belts,not the ganged tuning cap.the volume control appears to be the dual version.do you know the value of the stacked resistors?can you point me to a chassis veiw of early 60's?
::::
:::::Are you sure that the radio is the early version of model 60c? I just took another look at the different chasis. The later model 60 and 60c chasis have the stacked tapped resistors. The early model does not show it that way. Look at just the model 60 resources and see if it compares with your set.
:::::
:::::
:::::MRO
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::::From the schematic: One section should be 20K ohms and the other 65K ohms. The center tap of the resistors goes to the 1st RF screen grid. The 20K section goes to the 2nd and 3rd RF screen grids. The 65K section goes to the B+ line at the 2nd filter choke. The schematic, which is quite clear, is under resources on this site. Some of the other model 60 listings show the location and function of the under the chasis components. I hope this helps.
::::::
::::::MRO
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
:::::::thanks mark,what about the two wire-wounds in the center of chassis?there are 2 of them,one is center-tapped,the other is close too center tapped.i have one of them figured out,a 1.5k and 160 ohm.the other appears to be tied to grids of 1st and 2nd r.f. tubes.are these 6k?
:::::::thanks,phil
:::::::
:::::::

hi mark,yeah i tend to do that,jump ahead and all,the chassis plate says 60-c. i figured out why it works better jumpered,i'm feeding audio signal directly to the speaker and bypassing the bad transformer,not jumping b+ to speaker,it's already there.but at least i heard a human voice out of it for the 1st time,that's encouraging! i'm looking for an output trans now,thanks,phil

:Whoa! Hold on there young feller. You are trying to do too many things at once. Doing more than one thing at a time is more than what the male mind can handle. Put the RF section back the way it was. We don't know yet which radio you have. We do know that your audio section is defective. The RF section may be OK. Fix the audio section first. It is possible that the audio driver transformer on the plate side is also open. You may have inadvertently supplied the driver tube with B+ voltage so it can operate. One caution, don't start connecting things where they don't belong.
:A good practice is to handle your troubleshooting a single radio section at a time. For example: power supply, audio, RF. Is this even a model 60. Sometimes the radio cabinet does not always reflect the correct model number. Many Atwaters will fit into many different cabinets. What does the chasis say?
:
:
:MRO
:
:
:
::o.k.,i checked the chassis layout again,it looks like the later version but it can't be,has separate variables and the list says late version has 4 rotors mounted on a common shaft,and the wire-wounds appear different but the carbon resistors are layed out like the late version. i took out the 60k and the 20k i had replaced the wire-wounds with and put in 2 3.3k's and i'm back where i started,very low volume and only 1 station,a strong local 1530a.m..
::now for the weird stuff. i removed the blue 45 to prevent damage,no change.i then jumped between the speaker plug terminal m2 to the last 27's grid and much improved volume and now more stations.how come?
::i know i need to replace/repair transformer but i would like to know why jumping these connections makes thing better,just trying to understand,phil
::
::
:::thanks mark,when i get home i'll check and repost.
:::
:::
::::Try this and see if it compares: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/421/M0001421.pdf
::::
::::
::::Or just look in the resources on this site under Atwater Kent model 60 It shows the differences between the late and early models in a chart.
::::
::::
::::MRO
::::
:::::at this point i'm not sure of what it is.the is confusing/conflicting info on it.it has 4 separate variables with the belts,not the ganged tuning cap.the volume control appears to be the dual version.do you know the value of the stacked resistors?can you point me to a chassis veiw of early 60's?
:::::
::::::Are you sure that the radio is the early version of model 60c? I just took another look at the different chasis. The later model 60 and 60c chasis have the stacked tapped resistors. The early model does not show it that way. Look at just the model 60 resources and see if it compares with your set.
::::::
::::::
::::::MRO
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
:::::::From the schematic: One section should be 20K ohms and the other 65K ohms. The center tap of the resistors goes to the 1st RF screen grid. The 20K section goes to the 2nd and 3rd RF screen grids. The 65K section goes to the B+ line at the 2nd filter choke. The schematic, which is quite clear, is under resources on this site. Some of the other model 60 listings show the location and function of the under the chasis components. I hope this helps.
:::::::
:::::::MRO
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
::::::::thanks mark,what about the two wire-wounds in the center of chassis?there are 2 of them,one is center-tapped,the other is close too center tapped.i have one of them figured out,a 1.5k and 160 ohm.the other appears to be tied to grids of 1st and 2nd r.f. tubes.are these 6k?
::::::::thanks,phil
::::::::
::::::::