Hello, I picked up a Philco 610 console radio over the weekend and to my surprise it worked. I slowly powered it up with a variac and all was well, had a good sound. I figured I better not press my luck and turned it off and decided to recap it tonight. I had noticed that someone must have put new electroltic caps in back in the 50's judging by the style they used. It uses 2 8mf and 1 16mf cap. I replaced all the paper caps also. I put it back in the chassis and pluged it back in and heard a hissing pop followed by a cloud of smoke....LOL. Good thing my wife was already asleep. I let things cool down and checked under the chassis and I could not find what smoked...it was a lot of smoke, but no sign of any damage, I looked for 1/2 hour and nothing. I do question one large wire round resistor. I did find an oily residue on it. On the schematic it goes between the 2 8mf eletrolitics. it is about the size of a AA battery and is white in color with no other markings. Here is where the fun begins, according to the schematic it is red gren orange and 25000 ohms. There is also a drawing of it on this web site and things do not jive, would it be oil filed resistor or what is it. I think it is the problem. I have pictures prior to the recaping, send your email to me and I will send pictures.
Thanks
David

:Hello, I picked up a Philco 610 console radio over the weekend and to my surprise it worked. I slowly powered it up with a variac and all was well, had a good sound. I figured I better not press my luck and turned it off and decided to recap it tonight. I had noticed that someone must have put new electroltic caps in back in the 50's judging by the style they used. It uses 2 8mf and 1 16mf cap. I replaced all the paper caps also. I put it back in the chassis and pluged it back in and heard a hissing pop followed by a cloud of smoke....LOL. Good thing my wife was already asleep. I let things cool down and checked under the chassis and I could not find what smoked...it was a lot of smoke, but no sign of any damage, I looked for 1/2 hour and nothing. I do question one large wire round resistor. I did find an oily residue on it. On the schematic it goes between the 2 8mf eletrolitics. it is about the size of a AA battery and is white in color with no other markings. Here is where the fun begins, according to the schematic it is red gren orange and 25000 ohms. There is also a drawing of it on this web site and things do not jive, would it be oil filed resistor or what is it. I think it is the problem. I have pictures prior to the recaping, send your email to me and I will send pictures.
:Thanks
:David

The oil probably came out of the electrolytic cap above the resistor. The resistor would not have been oil filled.
Carl

::Hello, I picked up a Philco 610 console radio over the weekend and to my surprise it worked. I slowly powered it up with a variac and all was well, had a good sound. I figured I better not press my luck and turned it off and decided to recap it tonight. I had noticed that someone must have put new electroltic caps in back in the 50's judging by the style they used. It uses 2 8mf and 1 16mf cap. I replaced all the paper caps also. I put it back in the chassis and pluged it back in and heard a hissing pop followed by a cloud of smoke....LOL. Good thing my wife was already asleep. I let things cool down and checked under the chassis and I could not find what smoked...it was a lot of smoke, but no sign of any damage, I looked for 1/2 hour and nothing. I do question one large wire round resistor. I did find an oily residue on it. On the schematic it goes between the 2 8mf eletrolitics. it is about the size of a AA battery and is white in color with no other markings. Here is where the fun begins, according to the schematic it is red gren orange and 25000 ohms. There is also a drawing of it on this web site and things do not jive, would it be oil filed resistor or what is it. I think it is the problem. I have pictures prior to the recaping, send your email to me and I will send pictures.
::Thanks
::David
:
:The oil probably came out of the electrolytic cap above the resistor. The resistor would not have been oil filled.
:Carl

Dave. I had a similar experience. Read my posting dated 10/25/06 titled "WOW, that was exciting"
Andy

I thought it was a capacitor, but I did not see any damage to the new ones I put in. I used 450v repalcements and 600v for the paper caps. I could not find anything that was hot.
David

David,

Firstly, if repairs have been made previously, don't assume it was done right. Note in the power supply that the input cap's minus does not connect to the chassis but rather to the center tap of the high voltage winding (that is, the CT does not connect directly to the chassis). The resistor(s) from the center tap to chassis produces a minus voltage that is used to bias the output tube(s) and others. You may want to check that the repairs have been done according to the schematic.

Radiodoc

:I thought it was a capacitor, but I did not see any damage to the new ones I put in. I used 450v repalcements and 600v for the paper caps. I could not find anything that was hot.
:David

I agree with you that I should not trust the previous repairs, but they worked and quite well. I just replaced the old caps with new ones just as the had it. the only diffrence is that they still had one of the old cansitor caps still attached to one of the positve leads of the 8 mf replacment ones. I removed the lead off the old cap,but soldered all the connections the same.
David

I am also trying to figure out what the all white large resistor is. Also should I see damage to the new cap?
David

David,

The schematic shows this radio has a electrodynamic speaker, one that has a coil on the rear of it (the coil provides magnatism for the speaker and smooths out the power supply voltage). You stated the big white resistor connected between the two 8 MFD caps. Is this the pluses of the caps. There is a thought that if the speaker has been replaced with a permanent magnet type (one that has a magnet and not a coil on it) that a large resistor could have been added between the pluses of the two caps to replace the field coil in the original speaker.

Radiodoc

:Hello, I picked up a Philco 610 console radio over the weekend and to my surprise it worked. I slowly powered it up with a variac and all was well, had a good sound. I figured I better not press my luck and turned it off and decided to recap it tonight. I had noticed that someone must have put new electroltic caps in back in the 50's judging by the style they used. It uses 2 8mf and 1 16mf cap. I replaced all the paper caps also. I put it back in the chassis and pluged it back in and heard a hissing pop followed by a cloud of smoke....LOL. Good thing my wife was already asleep. I let things cool down and checked under the chassis and I could not find what smoked...it was a lot of smoke, but no sign of any damage, I looked for 1/2 hour and nothing. I do question one large wire round resistor. I did find an oily residue on it. On the schematic it goes between the 2 8mf eletrolitics. it is about the size of a AA battery and is white in color with no other markings. Here is where the fun begins, according to the schematic it is red gren orange and 25000 ohms. There is also a drawing of it on this web site and things do not jive, would it be oil filed resistor or what is it. I think it is the problem. I have pictures prior to the recaping, send your email to me and I will send pictures.
:Thanks
:David

Yes it is between the pluses of the two caps, but the original speaker is still in place. Did you get the not on how they had one of the replacement caps attached to the positive of the old cans. If the old can cap still had some life it would have doubled it, so I disconnected it. Could that have caused the problem.

:Yes it is between the pluses of the two caps, but the original speaker is still in place. Did you get the not on how they had one of the replacement caps attached to the positive of the old cans. If the old can cap still had some life it would have doubled it, so I disconnected it. Could that have caused the problem.

David,

It is always good to completely isolate the old wet caps completely from the circuit when installing new ones. It is possible that old cap may have had a short in it and caused the smoke. It is also possible the speaker in the radio had been replaced sometime with another and the field coil resistance of the replacement was a little too high causing the B+ voltage to be low. So to raise the B+ voltage back to the proper level, a resistor could have been put between the pluses on the caps in parallel with the field coil.

Radiodoc

Thats is why I isolted the new caps, What else can I check? I will puul the theree new electroltic caps that I installed to see which one faled, as there are no visible signs.
Thanks
David

Would it help to email some pictures?
David

David,

That would be very nice.

Radiodoc

:Would it help to email some pictures?
:David

:Would it help to email some pictures?
:David

Hi David,
As I look at the schematic the plus side of #56 8mfd and the plus side of #41 16mfd only go to one side of # 40 25k ohms. One side of the field coil #53 1100 ohms connects to the plus side of #56 8mfd and other side connects to the plus side of #54 8mfd. No 25k ohm resistor has plus side of electrolytics connected to both ends. When the new style electrolytic caps blow they don't always bust wide open. You will find one of your caps with a small slit wherein the smoke and oil like substance spewed out. Post a picture if you need to on a free host site. One more thing, dots on a schematic are connecting points. Also, you should address by schematic number and value when they are available. The field coil is on the speaker unless completely replaced with a PM type in which a resistor or choke of around 1100 ohms has been added in its place.

Bill VA

Thanks...I did see in the schematic on this web site that the numbers have been switched up on the riders update. Any suggestions on posting a picture. I never used a free web picture posting service.
David

:Thanks...I did see in the schematic on this web site that the numbers have been switched up on the riders update. Any suggestions on posting a picture. I never used a free web picture posting service.
:David

Here's some sites just posted in last few days.

http://photobucket.com/
www.flickr.com
www.imageshack.us

They are lots all over the web. Just do a search for free photo hosting.

Bill VA

Try this link
http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/dgrizzy68/?action=invite

David,

I believe you will find the mystery resistor is a 9000 Ohm resistor. Look at the 610 data under resources on this site and look at the second schematic, "2nd type schematic".

Radiodoc

:Try this link
:http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/dgrizzy68/?action=invite

According to the parts list #39 says it is 10000 ohms. Orange Black Brown....how many watts would it be. I also noticed there was an extra factory installed .1 mf paper cap on my chassis that does not show up anywhere.

David,

If you will compare the two schematic diagrams for the 610 on this site, the first shows a 10000 (10K) Ohm resistor and the second ("2nd type schematic") shows a 9000 (9K) Ohm resistor in later production. It would probably be two or three watts.

Radiodoc

:According to the parts list #39 says it is 10000 ohms. Orange Black Brown....how many watts would it be. I also noticed there was an extra factory installed .1 mf paper cap on my chassis that does not show up anywhere.

:According to the parts list #39 says it is 10000 ohms. Orange Black Brown....how many watts would it be. I also noticed there was an extra factory installed .1 mf paper cap on my chassis that does not show up anywhere.

David,
I won't jump back to parts list to check but #39 is 10K ohms, brown, black, orange. Read as "BED", b is body, e is end, and d is dot.

Bill VA

Haste makes me mistakes. #39 has been changed to a 9000 ohm. The white resistor body=9, end=black, dot=red.
Bill

::According to the parts list #39 says it is 10000 ohms. Orange Black Brown....how many watts would it be. I also noticed there was an extra factory installed .1 mf paper cap on my chassis that does not show up anywhere.
:
:David,
:I won't jump back to parts list to check but #39 is 10K ohms, brown, black, orange. Read as "BED", b is body, e is end, and d is dot.
:
:Bill VA

:David,
:
:I believe you will find the mystery resistor is a 9000 Ohm resistor. Look at the 610 data under resources on this site and look at the second schematic, "2nd type schematic".
:
:Radiodoc

Ahhh sooo. Right Doc, his set is more than just a 610. And both ends of the 9000 ohm resistor are not connected to plus sides of electroylics. Am I reading it right? Back and forth gets to me. So David check your connections.

Bill VA
::Try this link
::http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/dgrizzy68/?action=invite

Thanks for helping identify the parts. I guess the bottom line comes to why did I have a melt down. All caps were replaced just as they were found. Polarity stayed the same and I used 450 caps. After revewing the schematics again, everything looks right. It worked well before installing the new caps. Could I have a cold solder joint or something crazylike that.
David

::David,
::
::I believe you will find the mystery resistor is a 9000 Ohm resistor. Look at the 610 data under resources on this site and look at the second schematic, "2nd type schematic".
::
::Radiodoc
:
Bill VA,

The 9K resistor connects (eventually) from the filament (pin 1 or 4) of the rectifier tube to the junction of the 16 MFD cap (41), 32K resistor (42) and 25K resistor (40) as shown on "2nd type schematic". I advised him I was concerned how the input cap was wired in as he stated he replaced it like it was originally (previous repair). I never assume previous repairs were done right. The input cap plus goes to the rectifier filament pin and the minus goes to the centertap of the HV winding.

Radiodoc

:Ahhh sooo. Right Doc, his set is more than just a 610. And both ends of the 9000 ohm resistor are not connected to plus sides of electroylics. Am I reading it right? Back and forth gets to me. So David check your connections.
:
:Bill VA
:::Try this link
:::http://s128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/dgrizzy68/?action=invite

I guess I am confused. So, what worked before i messed with it was wrong, but did not explode...but now with new parts it exploded. What i am understanding is that the 9000 ohm resistor should not be hooked between the 2 positive terminals of the caps like it was. It looks like the schematic has it that way.
David

David,

The 9000 Ohm resistor is probably right, it connects between the plus of cap 55 to the plus of cap 41. Just make sure the resistor measures approximately right value. Also make sure polarity of the caps is correct. The minus on cap 55 goes to the power transformer center tap, the minus on cap 41 goes to the chassis and the minus on cap 54 goes to chassis. A reversed cap can not only cause the cap to go bad but can damage any resistors supplying it. My reference is to the second schematic for the 610.

Radiodoc

:I guess I am confused. So, what worked before i messed with it was wrong, but did not explode...but now with new parts it exploded. What i am understanding is that the 9000 ohm resistor should not be hooked between the 2 positive terminals of the caps like it was. It looks like the schematic has it that way.
:David

OK, I have double checked the polarity of the caps. It has become a mess of ugly solder joints before I even messed with it, I wonder if a bad solder joint is the problem. I will also check or put in a new resistor. I feel like we are getting some where now.
David

:David,
:
:The 9000 Ohm resistor is probably right, it connects between the plus of cap 55 to the plus of cap 41. Just make sure the resistor measures approximately right value. Also make sure polarity of the caps is correct. The minus on cap 55 goes to the power transformer center tap, the minus on cap 41 goes to the chassis and the minus on cap 54 goes to chassis. A reversed cap can not only cause the cap to go bad but can damage any resistors supplying it. My reference is to the second schematic for the 610.
:
:Radiodoc

I got what you were getting at from the gitgo Doc. Thanks. I just carried over my thoughts about the 25K to the 9k and should have paid attention to the connections on the 9k...clear as a bell.
Bill
:
::I guess I am confused. So, what worked before i messed with it was wrong, but did not explode...but now with new parts it exploded. What i am understanding is that the 9000 ohm resistor should not be hooked between the 2 positive terminals of the caps like it was. It looks like the schematic has it that way.
::David

Bill VA,

That's OK. I get off on a tangent sometimes. In an earlier post I was thinking that maybe the speaker had been replaced with one with a higher resistance choke coil and the big white resistor had been added to bring the B+ voltage back up. Finally, I just printed out all the info on the 610 and studied it and it finally became clear the resistor was original.

Radiodoc

::David,
::
::The 9000 Ohm resistor is probably right, it connects between the plus of cap 55 to the plus of cap 41. Just make sure the resistor measures approximately right value. Also make sure polarity of the caps is correct. The minus on cap 55 goes to the power transformer center tap, the minus on cap 41 goes to the chassis and the minus on cap 54 goes to chassis. A reversed cap can not only cause the cap to go bad but can damage any resistors supplying it. My reference is to the second schematic for the 610.
::
::Radiodoc
:
:I got what you were getting at from the gitgo Doc. Thanks. I just carried over my thoughts about the 25K to the 9k and should have paid attention to the connections on the 9k...clear as a bell.
:Bill
::
:::I guess I am confused. So, what worked before i messed with it was wrong, but did not explode...but now with new parts it exploded. What i am understanding is that the 9000 ohm resistor should not be hooked between the 2 positive terminals of the caps like it was. It looks like the schematic has it that way.
:::David

:Bill VA,
:
:That's OK. I get off on a tangent sometimes. In an earlier post I was thinking that maybe the speaker had been replaced with one with a higher resistance choke coil and the big white resistor had been added to bring the B+ voltage back up. Finally, I just printed out all the info on the 610 and studied it and it finally became clear the resistor was original.
:
:Radiodoc

That's the key word, "studied." A good reminder to anyone. I kept trying to get back and forth. When I start on a set I gather, enlarge and print my data and study it over. Get my parts together, etc. Don't want to be needing a high voltage cap half way thru. Got an old Airline to start on tomorrow.

Bill VA
:
:::David,
:::
:::The 9000 Ohm resistor is probably right, it connects between the plus of cap 55 to the plus of cap 41. Just make sure the resistor measures approximately right value. Also make sure polarity of the caps is correct. The minus on cap 55 goes to the power transformer center tap, the minus on cap 41 goes to the chassis and the minus on cap 54 goes to chassis. A reversed cap can not only cause the cap to go bad but can damage any resistors supplying it. My reference is to the second schematic for the 610.
:::
:::Radiodoc
::
::I got what you were getting at from the gitgo Doc. Thanks. I just carried over my thoughts about the 25K to the 9k and should have paid attention to the connections on the 9k...clear as a bell.
::Bill
:::
::::I guess I am confused. So, what worked before i messed with it was wrong, but did not explode...but now with new parts it exploded. What i am understanding is that the 9000 ohm resistor should not be hooked between the 2 positive terminals of the caps like it was. It looks like the schematic has it that way.
::::David

And I'm helping in the confusion. Sorry. The plus from the 16 MFD connects to the side of the 9000 ohm where also the 32k and the 25k appear to be connected in your picture. The plus from #55 8mfd connects to the other side of the 9000 ohm and whatever else connects there. You need to follow the schematic, on the negs also. Still a new cap and have you looked yet, could go. But as Doc says don't assume previous work is correct like one's previous advice (me) is correct especially when the ducks don't line up. I'm still holding out for a bad hookup. I can't see all the connections with your pictures. And one can't assume his own connections are correct when something like this happens. You do have a 16 or more where the 16 goes and not a cap less than 16. Otherwise one of your 8 replacements ended up where the 16 goes. I once got a 10 for an 8 and put it where the 16 should go, unware. Played the set briefly, a Sparton, everything ok. Later on the wife turned it on, oh that's nice, standing there it blew. Scared her. She told me then to slow down. Sometimes I get a litte hyper about working on old sets.

Bill VA

:I guess I am confused. So, what worked before i messed with it was wrong, but did not explode...but now with new parts it exploded. What i am understanding is that the 9000 ohm resistor should not be hooked between the 2 positive terminals of the caps like it was. It looks like the schematic has it that way.
:David

Yes, I am kind of gathering information and greatful for your help. I will check again that I have the correct polarity and the right values where they belong. I hope it is something simple. I could of just had a bad cap, but will repalce them againd and add a new resistor to play it safe. The solder joints are pretty ugly too, I will cut them out and do it right. I wish this was unmesssed with before I got it. If I can not find a 9000 ohm ressistor can I use a more common 10000 ohm in its place like it shows in the earier model?
David

David,

A 10000 Ohm resistor would probably work or you could use a 10,000 Ohm and a 100,000 Ohm resistor in parallel with each other. That will give you approximately 9091 Ohms resistance.

Radiodoc

:Yes, I am kind of gathering information and greatful for your help. I will check again that I have the correct polarity and the right values where they belong. I hope it is something simple. I could of just had a bad cap, but will repalce them againd and add a new resistor to play it safe. The solder joints are pretty ugly too, I will cut them out and do it right. I wish this was unmesssed with before I got it. If I can not find a 9000 ohm ressistor can I use a more common 10000 ohm in its place like it shows in the earier model?
:David

David: I'm jumping in here late and don't know if you solved your problem yet but let me add my two cents worth. You stated that the caps were replaced in the fifties and by that I take it that they are the twist-mount type (three tabs stick through base and you insert can and twist tabs to mount). If this is so, are the mounting bases that attach to the chassis metal or plastic? If metal, as soon as you mount that 8mfd it will ground the negative (can)to chassis where its not supposed to go. If they are plastic (I have a hard time spelling phenol or what ever)make sure that no other ground connection goes to any of the tabs on that 8mfd cap, that the can is spaced away from the chassis on the plastic base and no solder or bare wire is bridging the gap from can to chassis. I'm assuming you are replacing the caps with the twist type and not placing them under the chassis. PL

I was replacing them under the chassis. There is a link in my earlier postings with pictures.
David