Let me try to toss this out to the the rest of you fellas...

I realize this is a bit off Radio topic...I hope no one objects.. but Maybe.... one of you who are more familiar with TV can enlighten me.

I know that the signal from the TV antenna is RF.... right? ...but how about the signal from cable?
Isn't that RF too?... or is it not?

Can it be fed into the same input "ANT" as the regular antenna input?... I thought it could... but apparently... I'm wrong.

When a TV says it is "cable ready" ... what does that mean?
I always thought it was just a separate 75 ohm coax connector path in parallel with the normal 300ohm twin lead ... going to the tuner.

You see...
I just bought a little (8" flat screen head-rest monitor/TV.
http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?model=PLVWT8M
It says it works as a regular TV and has a TV tuner.

So...
I wanted it just to use as a regular TV. I want to keep it on my night table by my bed and set it on TV channel 3. Then feed it video via the output (chan 3 frequency) from my cable box.

But the antenna signal input jack that says "ANT" is a tip/ring type little jack.

Now this thing came with an adaptor that adapts from that small tip/ring jack to a coax cable.

So I figured I'd just put my cable box output coax into that.
But the first problem was that my coax wouldn't quite fit this adaptor because it was European sized.
So.. I had to go get the right sized adaptor at Radio Shack.
Then when I tried it it had very crappy snowy picture.

I called the NYC Pyle distributer and described that all I wanted to do was feed it video on channel 3 from my cable.

They said that perhaps it might have bad tuner and so I sent it in for repair.

BUT...They just sent it right back saying I cannot feed my coax signal into the Antenna input !!!
The return note they sent said:
"The Antenna is for RF only"... ("not digital cable signal")
So that sort of makes me feel stupid because I never tought that the cable signal for channel 3 was not the same as the RF signal for channel 3.

What is it then if not RF?

Anyway to achieve my intent..I ultimately have decided to just run the AV signal from the yellow RCA video-output jack on the cable box into the RCA yellow video-in port on the TV-monitor. ... and this works fine...
But why isn't this "cable ready"... and what is the cable signal if not RF?

Peter,
Welcome to the real world of cable TV. The cable channel line up is totally different from broadcast. Broadcast ch.3 is 60-66mHz, but as I recall, cable channels start at around 150 mHz meaning ch 3 will somewhere in that range. I use to have a copy of the complete cable channel line up, but its buried somewhere. In addition easter and western European cable channels are different from each other and USA standards, unless they've recently standarized on something in common. Remember the old TV advertising phrase "Cable Ready", well that meant that ch.3, along with the others are placed somewhere else in the RF spectrum.

marv

:Let me try to toss this out to the the rest of you fellas...
:
:I realize this is a bit off Radio topic...I hope no one objects.. but Maybe.... one of you who are more familiar with TV can enlighten me.
:
:I know that the signal from the TV antenna is RF.... right? ...but how about the signal from cable?
:Isn't that RF too?... or is it not?
:
:Can it be fed into the same input "ANT" as the regular antenna input?... I thought it could... but apparently... I'm wrong.
:
:When a TV says it is "cable ready" ... what does that mean?
:I always thought it was just a separate 75 ohm coax connector path in parallel with the normal 300ohm twin lead ... going to the tuner.
:
:You see...
:I just bought a little (8" flat screen head-rest monitor/TV.
:http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?model=PLVWT8M
:It says it works as a regular TV and has a TV tuner.
:
:So...
:I wanted it just to use as a regular TV. I want to keep it on my night table by my bed and set it on TV channel 3. Then feed it video via the output (chan 3 frequency) from my cable box.
:
:But the antenna signal input jack that says "ANT" is a tip/ring type little jack.
:
:Now this thing came with an adaptor that adapts from that small tip/ring jack to a coax cable.
:
:So I figured I'd just put my cable box output coax into that.
: But the first problem was that my coax wouldn't quite fit this adaptor because it was European sized.
:So.. I had to go get the right sized adaptor at Radio Shack.
:Then when I tried it it had very crappy snowy picture.
:
:I called the NYC Pyle distributer and described that all I wanted to do was feed it video on channel 3 from my cable.
:
:They said that perhaps it might have bad tuner and so I sent it in for repair.
:
:BUT...They just sent it right back saying I cannot feed my coax signal into the Antenna input !!!
:The return note they sent said:
:"The Antenna is for RF only"... ("not digital cable signal")
:So that sort of makes me feel stupid because I never tought that the cable signal for channel 3 was not the same as the RF signal for channel 3.
:
:What is it then if not RF?
:
:Anyway to achieve my intent..I ultimately have decided to just run the AV signal from the yellow RCA video-output jack on the cable box into the RCA yellow video-in port on the TV-monitor. ... and this works fine...
:But why isn't this "cable ready"... and what is the cable signal if not RF?

Now that confuses me more... lol

The cable box always had a choice for putting out on chan 3 or 4 which ever is otherwise not broadcast in your local area.
That's because (I thought) since the cable channels were mostly new additional programing channels above the standard broadcast (2-13)
now they also include chan 2-13
but I tgink in the early days around here you could still use your antenna for the loacal 2-13 broadcast but if chan 3 was not broadcast in your area you could use that to get the rest from the cable box.

But in any case... it was fed in via channel 3 or 4 which are in the same standard TV rf range no?

According to FCC here they seem to indicate that the cable signal is the same as the RF signal from the regular antenna:
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cableleak.html
Quote:
"Cable television systems use radio frequency (RF) signals transmitted over cables to provide television and data services to customers."
"Cable television systems use many of the same frequencies to transmit programming as licensed over-the-air users. For example, cable systems use TV and radio channels, and aeronautical radio channels, among others. Cable operators are considered the secondary users of these frequencies"

the info here sems to clearly support thr fact that the channel 3 output from the cable box is the same as channel 3 broadcast:
http://www.channelvision.com/pdf/product/instruction/CVT/Attenuators%20&%20Filters/3101-ins.pdf

Channel 3 out of your cable box converter is indeed channel 3 of your television. The signal from the box is RF. The signal into the box is also RF. A television that is cable ready has a tuner that is capable of tuning to cable channel frequencies, since many of them are not the same as those normally tuned by a television. A normal television can pick up some cable channels up to about 13. After that, cable does not use the same UHF frequencies that a regular television uses. If you hook a regular television up to a cable line (no box converter), you'll be able to tune in some channels at the low end, but not much, if anything, at the high end.

Also, if this is a foreign television that you are dealing with, perhaps the tuner is not well matched to our channel 3. The output from your cable box, which you feed into the RF of any other television, is RF, however.

Try feeding a regular antenna into that RF jack and see how well that thing tunes in stations.

T.

thanks.. ok.. this just all confirms my thinking... I am better pepared now on Monday to chat with the tech-guy that sent it back with tha note.

I agree with Thomas, I have two RCA XL-100 sets, one from 1991 and the second one from 1999, both state cable ready. If I set both sets to cable thru the menue (my house is set up with an ant on the roof feeding cable down to the sets), the local stations are all over the place and sometime twice when selecting channels (such as ch 23 (off the air) can be up around ch 77 and 110 for cable). You need to find out what type of cable ready are they talking about - digital or analog, big difference, as many of the earlier sets say cable ready sometimes means using 75 ohm cable from the ant. or the early cable systems that were analog.

David S.

:thanks.. ok.. this just all confirms my thinking... I am better pepared now on Monday to chat with the tech-guy that sent it back with tha note.

Well .. Actually digital or analog cable is not exactly the issue in a way... because I am just taking the channel 3 output rf signal from the cable box output and trying to feed that to the tuner.
If that is RF the tuner should see it properly...no?

Now as far as the cable signal delivered to the house... it is both analog and digital...

up till last week.. I used to just directly connect it to both my two TVs with no cable box at all and eveything (all 78 channels) was "analog" .

But recently, to add certain channels that I wanted which were in the "digital group" ....they delivered and added one "digital" converter cable box to one of my TVs... just last week.

(However if I bypass that "digital" converter box and go directly in...to the main TV I stll get all 78 analog channels.)

Now..The ouput of that box is channel 3 regular RF.... and feeds into the regular VHF ANT input on the main TV..... I just split that and passed it along also to this other new 8" TV and that is where the signal is all snowy.

:Well .. Actually digital or analog cable is not exactly the issue in a way... because I am just taking the channel 3 output rf signal from the cable box output and trying to feed that to the tuner.
:If that is RF the tuner should see it properly...no?
:
:Now as far as the cable signal delivered to the house... it is both analog and digital...
:
:up till last week.. I used to just directly connect it to both my two TVs with no cable box at all and eveything (all 78 channels) was "analog" .
:
:But recently, to add certain channels that I wanted which were in the "digital group" ....they delivered and added one "digital" converter cable box to one of my TVs... just last week.
:
:(However if I bypass that "digital" converter box and go directly in...to the main TV I stll get all 78 analog channels.)
:
: Now..The ouput of that box is channel 3 regular RF.... and feeds into the regular VHF ANT input on the main TV..... I just split that and passed it along also to this other new 8" TV and that is where the signal is all snowy.
:
:When a TV is said to be cable ready, it means that it is capable of tuning in some cable channels. All channels are in groups, called bands. When cable first came out, cable ready meant that it would pick up all the way to channel 36. Now, all sets should be cable ready all the way up to channel 125. ( all sets except the real cheap ones, B&W, etc.) Both the cable signal, and the antenna enter the set in an RF mode. If you have an anolog TV, and you hook up digital cable direct, it wont work. There are 3 types of cable signals out there. The signal is either a off-set frequency to the left, or off-set to the right of the channel frequency, and of course, at the center. This is labled cable norm (center) or the off-sets, HRC and IRC. Down here in Tampa, it is of the norm type. To answer the original question, if the cable is an analog signal, you can watch all channels w/o a cable box up to channel 13. Above that is either UHF, or Various cable bands.
:

Without any cable box at all... I can plug my cable directly into ANY of my other TVs here (vintage late 80s early 90s)
I can plug the cable directly into the cable-ready VHF input. And I can receive all the analog channels from 2 up to about channel 96.
I subscribe to Cablevision cable.

Here's the nub of my Question:
The thing I am tring to get clear about is... If I DO use the cable Box and I take the output signal (channel 3) and I can connect that into the VHF input and get clear and perfect reception into my other two TV's .... why CAN'T I also get a good clear picture when I connect that same (chan 3) signal into the ANT input of this PLVWT8M Pyle 8" TV/monitor?
http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?model=PLVWT8M

:Without any cable box at all... I can plug my cable directly into ANY of my other TVs here (vintage late 80s early 90s)
: I can plug the cable directly into the cable-ready VHF input. And I can receive all the analog channels from 2 up to about channel 96.
:I subscribe to Cablevision cable.
:
:Here's the nub of my Question:
:The thing I am tring to get clear about is... If I DO use the cable Box and I take the output signal (channel 3) and I can connect that into the VHF input and get clear and perfect reception into my other two TV's .... why CAN'T I also get a good clear picture when I connect that same (chan 3) signal into the ANT input of this PLVWT8M Pyle 8" TV/monitor?
:http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?model=PLVWT8M
:
:
You should get a perfect picture. Either there is somethig wrong with your set, or there is a problem with the adaptors you have. Now, I am assuming that your TV has an analog tuner. I have seen where on some cheap TVs, that the "F" connector (cable connector) will not have a ground to it. Just the center connection. I don't know if this is the case with yours, but I have been seeing so much JUNK coming out of China, nothing would surprise me anymore. The problem with this junk, it getting service data, as well as parts when they break down. I would steer clear of these. Do NOT go by the brand name either. RCAs are now being made in China, as well as many of the other so-called American sets. Always check the back of the set to find out where it was manufactured. You may be surprised.

Jim
:
:

Toshiba, Sharp, Panasonic, and Sony have always been very good brands. I'm all about the U.S. brands, but who knows where they're even made anymore. Zenith is no longer Zenith. RCA is junk. I have no idea where Philco comes from, when, in rare circumstances, you can come across it. Emerson is anyone's guess.

T.

Peter, is this a "set to far". In other words are you getting enough signal strength into the house to carry this additional set? May need a small amp. Each splitter and set drops signal. PL

Yes the signal strength is fine.. when the cable guy was here we made sure of that using his DB meter.... in fact we replaced all splitters of an earlier vintage just to be safe with those high quality one manufactured especially for the cable company. He showed me that as the signal goes higher up the spectrum the level tends to fall off easily.... the music channels are way up on channels 800-840 and they won't even play unles the signal is sufficient.
Yes my signal is clear and strong at that point and swapping any other TV at that point proves it works fine on those other sets.

Now I just got off the phone with the Technician who sent the set back telling me it was "meant for regular antenna, not digital cable"... he appologized for his error and admits that if I am using chan 3 out of my cable box that this should work fine. So he agreed to pull another unit from stock and test it then call me back... and if it works fine they will swap it out.
So ... "news at eleven".
But at this point the issue is not paramount as I have since already decided to use the AV RCA video cable instead which does work just fine.