Hi All,
I have a Zenith 8H832. It is AM/FM. More than that it has the archaic 7 meter FM on it, too.
All the dating information on the 8H832 points to it having been made in 1948. I have a chassis from the previous Zenith design of this kind of set, the 8H032 (Gargoyle). The Gargoyle is clearly of earlier design. It had all Octal tubes, where the 8H832 has mostly 9 and 7 pin miniatures. The capacitors look older and larger. They smell stronger, too.
Here is the enigma, the 7 meter FM band went obsolete in the summer 1945, explaining why the Gargoyle still had it. It looks like the 8H832 is a redesign of the Gargoyle. The share size, dimensions, tube layout, and features. The enigma is why Zenith invested all that design work in the 8H832 around 1947, but retained the now dead FM band. The 7 meter FM band does not go out of this series of Zeniths until the 1949 model year.

I was wondering if there was some kind of story here, like Armstrong was suing to get the 7 meters back, or something like that. Does anyone have the low down on this?

All the Best,

Bill Grimm
Avorex design

Bill, here's the schematic: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/431/M0025431.pdf

According to the schematic, this set has three bands: AM plus two FM bands. This set must have been designed during the transistion from the old to the modern FM band, so they put both bands on it.

But, yes, there was a battle over abandonment of the old FM band for use by TV, and Armstrong was involved. In retrospect, it would seem that moving FM was questionable -- the old band is pretty much silent today.

:Hi All,
: I have a Zenith 8H832. It is AM/FM. More than that it has the archaic 7 meter FM on it, too.
: All the dating information on the 8H832 points to it having been made in 1948. I have a chassis from the previous Zenith design of this kind of set, the 8H032 (Gargoyle). The Gargoyle is clearly of earlier design. It had all Octal tubes, where the 8H832 has mostly 9 and 7 pin miniatures. The capacitors look older and larger. They smell stronger, too.
: Here is the enigma, the 7 meter FM band went obsolete in the summer 1945, explaining why the Gargoyle still had it. It looks like the 8H832 is a redesign of the Gargoyle. The share size, dimensions, tube layout, and features. The enigma is why Zenith invested all that design work in the 8H832 around 1947, but retained the now dead FM band. The 7 meter FM band does not go out of this series of Zeniths until the 1949 model year.
:
: I was wondering if there was some kind of story here, like Armstrong was suing to get the 7 meters back, or something like that. Does anyone have the low down on this?
:
:All the Best,
:
:Bill Grimm
:Avorex design

:Bill, here's the schematic: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/431/M0025431.pdf
:
:According to the schematic, this set has three bands: AM plus two FM bands. This set must have been designed during the transistion from the old to the modern FM band, so they put both bands on it.
:
:But, yes, there was a battle over abandonment of the old FM band for use by TV, and Armstrong was involved. In retrospect, it would seem that moving FM was questionable -- the old band is pretty much silent today.
:
::Hi All,
:: I have a Zenith 8H832. It is AM/FM. More than that it has the archaic 7 meter FM on it, too.
:: All the dating information on the 8H832 points to it having been made in 1948. I have a chassis from the previous Zenith design of this kind of set, the 8H032 (Gargoyle). The Gargoyle is clearly of earlier design. It had all Octal tubes, where the 8H832 has mostly 9 and 7 pin miniatures. The capacitors look older and larger. They smell stronger, too.
:: Here is the enigma, the 7 meter FM band went obsolete in the summer 1945, explaining why the Gargoyle still had it. It looks like the 8H832 is a redesign of the Gargoyle. The share size, dimensions, tube layout, and features. The enigma is why Zenith invested all that design work in the 8H832 around 1947, but retained the now dead FM band. The 7 meter FM band does not go out of this series of Zeniths until the 1949 model year.
::
:: I was wondering if there was some kind of story here, like Armstrong was suing to get the 7 meters back, or something like that. Does anyone have the low down on this?
::
::All the Best,
::
::Bill Grimm
::Avorex design

Hi Doug,
I tune in the 7 meter band occasionally to see if Armstrong's ghost is there.
I understand that some radio enthusiasts in New Jersey were going to do transmissions on that band. Does anyone know if anything came of that?

Best Regards,

Bill

I believe that they got a temporary broadcast permit for just a few days, maybe a weekend?

:
:Hi Doug,
: I tune in the 7 meter band occasionally to see if Armstrong's ghost is there.
: I understand that some radio enthusiasts in New Jersey were going to do transmissions on that band. Does anyone know if anything came of that?
:
:Best Regards,
:
:Bill

Bill G.

I have a "Gargoyle" Zenith 8H032 that is missing some parts and is suffering from a serious substandard repair attempt. If your 8H032 chassis is complete, would you be interested in parting with it?

David R

:Bill G.
:
:I have a "Gargoyle" Zenith 8H032 that is missing some parts and is suffering from a serious substandard repair attempt. If your 8H032 chassis is complete, would you be interested in parting with it?
:
:David R

Hi David,
Yes I would part with it. Let me describe the condition. It has quite a bit of surface rust and is dirty. It does not have water damage, however. This particular chassis is the 8C21, from a console, not the 8C20 which is in the Gargoyle. It differs in that it has a cable that goes to a record player. Disconnect the cable and you have an 8C20.
The dial screen is damaged. It has the radio organ buttons attached. Four of the radio organ buttons work, two are broken. It is missing four tubes, 6K6GT, 5Y3GT, 6SG7 and 6SB7Y. The last two may be a little hard to find, but I think I have a 6SG7 and 6SB7Y. Also, the 6S8GT is bad, with the heater to cathode short that gets them all, AES sells them cheap because few radios use them.
I have not tried to power this chassis. All I did was check the tubes that were present.
BE WARNED! The Gargoyle looks to be the most challenging electrical restoration project in vintage radio, outdoing the Transoceanic. The chassis as you know is just stuffed full of paper wax capacitors. It has more than double the IFs of an AM/SW set. The FM IFs are tuned to 8.3 MHz, not the modern 10.7. The IFs are susceptable to silver mica disease. In the service information it describes problems that this set can have, that were known when they were new, such as the audio vibrating the RF section and placing it out of tune. They specified placing foam in one spot and my chassis indeed has this foam. This radio is revision 1.0 of modern FM, like software released with the bugs
Once you have it restored, though, you will know you have tangled with the worst and won! You will also have the ultimate Gothic FM radio, the oldest radio that can receive modern FM without an external tuner! Is it worth it? I don't know because I haven't done a Gargoyle yet, but I do have the 8H832. After three years of on and off again picking at it I finally have it. It is fantastic!
If you are up for it I will send the chassis for $15 plus shipping which will be around $10. I monitor the forum so you can ask questions, too.

All the Best,

Bill Grimm

Well at least someone else out there in "radio land" thinks this set is a PITA to restore. I have pulled my hair out trying to figure out this set. I'm not even sure I have the right schematic. I will have to pass on your set, you said it is missing a 5Y3G tube which means it has a transformer, mine is a transformerless set and some of the parts I think I need are in the power supply. I'm really stumped with this one, but I'll keep pluggnig away and maybe someday I'll have it working!! Thanks for your response.

David R

:Well at least someone else out there in "radio land" thinks this set is a PITA to restore. I have pulled my hair out trying to figure out this set. I'm not even sure I have the right schematic. I will have to pass on your set, you said it is missing a 5Y3G tube which means it has a transformer, mine is a transformerless set and some of the parts I think I need are in the power supply. I'm really stumped with this one, but I'll keep pluggnig away and maybe someday I'll have it working!! Thanks for your response.
:
:David R

Hi David,
Is your rectifier a 25Z6GT? If so you may have an 8H034. That model number is most often associated with the Zenith Boomerang. You may also want to look at 8H023. That may be the transformerless chassis that goes in the Gargoyle cabinet.
If your rectifier is 25Z6GT and the output tube is 6K6GT you may want to consider that this unit blew out its transformer and someone made an half baked attempt to convert it to a transformerless set, EEEK!
These radios were known to blow out transformers. My 8H832 has had the transformer replaced. I also have an 8H832 chassis where the transformer was removed and a half baked attempt was made to convert it to a transformerless radio, so the scenerio has precident.
Let me know what you find. I am curious. Someday when the kids are older, I hope to restore a Gargoyle.

All the Best,

Bill

In my 1948 Zenith Cobramatic and Armstrong FM, "Twin Triumps in Tone!" advertisement, Zenith advertised their FM as having two bands, so that the set owner could feel at ease against any future change in FM wavelengths. I never did have this set, but I did have a 1951 Zenith Cobramatic consol that also had the round television. I only got the chassis, and someone else kept the rest. However, the radio performed well. It was very elaborate underneath, but wasn't too difficult to work on. Like a typical Zenith, reception was exceptional, and every extra component had a purpose. The IF transformers were tuned to 10.7 MC, however. Also, the thing had like 5 FM IFs and 3 or 4 AM IFs. As I said a while ago, AM reception was almost as nice as FM. The fidelidy was incredible.

Thomas

:In my 1948 Zenith Cobramatic and Armstrong FM, "Twin Triumps in Tone!" advertisement, Zenith advertised their FM as having two bands, so that the set owner could feel at ease against any future change in FM wavelengths. I never did have this set, but I did have a 1951 Zenith Cobramatic consol that also had the round television. I only got the chassis, and someone else kept the rest. However, the radio performed well. It was very elaborate underneath, but wasn't too difficult to work on. Like a typical Zenith, reception was exceptional, and every extra component had a purpose. The IF transformers were tuned to 10.7 MC, however. Also, the thing had like 5 FM IFs and 3 or 4 AM IFs. As I said a while ago, AM reception was almost as nice as FM. The fidelidy was incredible.
:
:Thomas

Hi Thomas,
I think you have it. The marketing folks asked that it be there. It makes perfect sense!

All the Best,

Bill

I should have typed "Twin Triumphs," not "Twin Triumps."

T.

:In my 1948 Zenith Cobramatic and Armstrong FM, "Twin Triumps in Tone!" advertisement, Zenith advertised their FM as having two bands, so that the set owner could feel at ease against any future change in FM wavelengths. I never did have this set, but I did have a 1951 Zenith Cobramatic consol that also had the round television. I only got the chassis, and someone else kept the rest. However, the radio performed well. It was very elaborate underneath, but wasn't too difficult to work on. Like a typical Zenith, reception was exceptional, and every extra component had a purpose. The IF transformers were tuned to 10.7 MC, however. Also, the thing had like 5 FM IFs and 3 or 4 AM IFs. As I said a while ago, AM reception was almost as nice as FM. The fidelidy was incredible.
:
:Thomas

Hi Thomas,
Can a copy of the ad be viewed on line?

Bill G.

I will try to scan it and e-mail it to you.

T.

::Well at least someone else out there in "radio land" thinks this set is a PITA to restore. I have pulled my hair out trying to figure out this set. I'm not even sure I have the right schematic. I will have to pass on your set, you said it is missing a 5Y3G tube which means it has a transformer, mine is a transformerless set and some of the parts I think I need are in the power supply. I'm really stumped with this one, but I'll keep pluggnig away and maybe someday I'll have it working!! Thanks for your response.
::
::David R
:
:Hi David,
: Is your rectifier a 25Z6GT? If so you may have an 8H034. That model number is most often associated with the Zenith Boomerang. You may also want to look at 8H023. That may be the transformerless chassis that goes in the Gargoyle cabinet.
: If your rectifier is 25Z6GT and the output tube is 6K6GT you may want to consider that this unit blew out its transformer and someone made an half baked attempt to convert it to a transformerless set, EEEK!
: These radios were known to blow out transformers. My 8H832 has had the transformer replaced. I also have an 8H832 chassis where the transformer was removed and a half baked attempt was made to convert it to a transformerless radio, so the scenerio has precident.
: Let me know what you find. I am curious. Someday when the kids are older, I hope to restore a Gargoyle.
:
:All the Best,
:
:Bill

Bill,

I have an 8H023 the little bakelite table model which uses the same 8C01 chassis as the 8H034 which looks identical to my 8H023 except it has the wooden cabinet. If someone would "loan" me a working unmolested 8H023 to look at, take pictures and return to them, I would be forever grateful. This 8H023 is a tangled mess and yes it does use a 25Z6GT rectifier. It does not look like a transformer was ever mounted to the chassis, so I'm doubtful anyone ever tried to convert it to a transformerless set, but they certainly had masochism on their mind when they started working on this set. I doubt it ever worked after the hack job, but I'm eager to get started on this set, but I need a little motovation to get going!

:Hi All,
: I have a Zenith 8H832. It is AM/FM. More than that it has the archaic 7 meter FM on it, too.
: All the dating information on the 8H832 points to it having been made in 1948. I have a chassis from the previous Zenith design of this kind of set, the 8H032 (Gargoyle). The Gargoyle is clearly of earlier design. It had all Octal tubes, where the 8H832 has mostly 9 and 7 pin miniatures. The capacitors look older and larger. They smell stronger, too.
: Here is the enigma, the 7 meter FM band went obsolete in the summer 1945, explaining why the Gargoyle still had it. It looks like the 8H832 is a redesign of the Gargoyle. The share size, dimensions, tube layout, and features. The enigma is why Zenith invested all that design work in the 8H832 around 1947, but retained the now dead FM band. The 7 meter FM band does not go out of this series of Zeniths until the 1949 model year.
:
: I was wondering if there was some kind of story here, like Armstrong was suing to get the 7 meters back, or something like that. Does anyone have the low down on this?
:
:All the Best,
:
:Bill Grimm
:Avorex design

::Hi All,
:: I have a Zenith 8H832. It is AM/FM. More than that it has the archaic 7 meter FM on it, too.
:: All the dating information on the 8H832 points to it having been made in 1948. I have a chassis from the previous Zenith design of this kind of set, the 8H032 (Gargoyle). The Gargoyle is clearly of earlier design. It had all Octal tubes, where the 8H832 has mostly 9 and 7 pin miniatures. The capacitors look older and larger. They smell stronger, too.
:: Here is the enigma, the 7 meter FM band went obsolete in the summer 1945, explaining why the Gargoyle still had it. It looks like the 8H832 is a redesign of the Gargoyle. The share size, dimensions, tube layout, and features. The enigma is why Zenith invested all that design work in the 8H832 around 1947, but retained the now dead FM band. The 7 meter FM band does not go out of this series of Zeniths until the 1949 model year.
::
:: I was wondering if there was some kind of story here, like Armstrong was suing to get the 7 meters back, or something like that. Does anyone have the low down on this?
::
::All the Best,
::
::Bill Grimm
::Avorex design
:
Armstrong was still fighting for his 7 meter band with RCA in the early 1950's but it drained him both financially and mentally. 'Empire of the Air, the Men Who Made Radio' by Tom Lewis has a good account of it. Nick