I am working to bring a Model 60 back to life and need some help. The speaker was shot so I replaced it with a new permanent magnet type and used a 1200 Ohm resistor (10W) in place of the old speaker winding. I also replaced the electrolytic caps in the power supply and a few paper caps elsewhere in the radio. I have tested all tubes and replaced two of them. The radio now can receive (weakly) a strong local station but is otherwise quiet. I measured plate voltage on the tubes and it is about 50 volts low (about 200VDC)on each tube so I wonder if my re-work of the power supply is wrong. I measured the original speaker coil and it is about 1100 Ohms. The new speaker is 8 Ohms and it is hooked up to the output side of the original audio output transformer. I have not replaced any of the "black box" capacitors. I also notice that the volume control (also replaced) does not have much effect on audio level. Does anyone have any ideas?

One more thing...I wonder whether I might see the low plate voltage due to leaky "black box" capacitors where they are used to bypass the B+ lines.

Hi Mike

I would rebuild the block caps. They become leaky and can cause lower voltage and poor or no reception.

Very important that the .015 mf between plate of 75 and grid #1 of your 42 doesn't have leakage. Any leakage and the 42 will draw excessive current lowering voltage.

Norm

:I am working to bring a Model 60 back to life and need some help. The speaker was shot so I replaced it with a new permanent magnet type and used a 1200 Ohm resistor (10W) in place of the old speaker winding. I also replaced the electrolytic caps in the power supply and a few paper caps elsewhere in the radio. I have tested all tubes and replaced two of them. The radio now can receive (weakly) a strong local station but is otherwise quiet. I measured plate voltage on the tubes and it is about 50 volts low (about 200VDC)on each tube so I wonder if my re-work of the power supply is wrong. I measured the original speaker coil and it is about 1100 Ohms. The new speaker is 8 Ohms and it is hooked up to the output side of the original audio output transformer. I have not replaced any of the "black box" capacitors. I also notice that the volume control (also replaced) does not have much effect on audio level. Does anyone have any ideas?

You should also recone the original speaker. Unless the field coil is shot, the speaker should be reconed. Furthermore, speakers in old radios are quite often 3.2 ohms. A 3.2 (or 3.5 or 4) ohm speaker will probably yield more audio than an 8 ohm speaker. When you re-cone the speaker, simply purchase an 8 inch cone from a speaker re-coning shop. Don't let them re-cone the speaker, or they'll mess it up (a lot of speaker shops can't seem to deal with internal spiders). Cut the old cone (what's left of it) around the spider, saving the spider and the voice coil. Remove the spider screw. Unsolder the voice coil wires and remove them from the support spring. Place the assembly over the new cone and through the hole in the center. Glue the new cone in place around its outer edge so that it's somewhat centered. Shim the voice coil appropriately and tighten its screw so that it's centered. Glue the outer edge of the spider to the new cone. Allow to dry. Test for centering and rubbing. Re-center if necessary.

www.philcorepairbench.com has all the info you need for rebuilding the black bakelite condensers. You can melt the tar out or use mineral spirits/gasoline. Soak in the latter. Keep away from sparks. The nickel plated metal box also houses condensers. Replace these. Replacements that will fit within the old containers are either of the metalized film type or ceramics. If you don't want to, don't re-fill the bakelite containers with tar. This isn't necessary. Just insulate your leads well. The tone control also has two condensers built into it. Melt or dillute out the tar to get at these. A shorted or leaky tone condenser will ruin audio and/or destroy your output transformer.

The Philco 60 is a very nice radio when rebuilt. The only thing it lacks is a tuned final stage of IF amplification. Placing a trimmer across the secondary of this stage will not work. The only way you can narrow down the tuning is with a wave trap. A choke of approximately 100 mH and a small trimmer in series will do the trick. Place these between the detector diode and its secondary IF transformer lead. Tune to the IF. Doing this yields more selective tuning. It is by no means necessary.

Thomas

Great advice! Thanks very much. I will refurbish the bakelite caps as you suggest. I hadn't thought of re-coning the speaker. Can you suggest one or two places to buy replacement cones and any website that would have a few photos or diagrams of the process? I didn't even know it was possible but I would like to try it. That would keep the radio more original which is a goal of mine. Thanks for all the ehlp...Mike

Look in your telephone directory for re-coning services (under speaker). You'll probably have better luck if you live near a larger city. If you want an attractive line cord, you can go to www.sundialwire.com. www.tubesandmore.com and www.radiodaze.com sell attractive line cords, too. They typically only sell brown cloth cord, but this is perfect for a Philco 60.

Thomas

When you purchase your cone, try to get an all paper cone. If you can only get a foam surrounded cone, and it's cheap, get it and try it. It may or may not fit. Ideally, you want an all paper cone, though if you can fit a foam mounted cone inside of your speaker, and not have the foam rub on either your speaker frame or the radio, it will probably sound better than the all paper cone.

Also, before you shim the voice coil and attach the assesmbly to the new cone, you should first make sure that the voice coil wires are facing the proper direction (towards the transformer mounting). When you cut the old cone away from the spider, make sure that you don't cut the spider away from the voice coil. The section of cone between the two should be left. Check the joint between the cone and the voice coil. If it is at all loose, gently rub a little bit of Elmer's white glue into the joint and allow it to dry. Don't get glue on the voice coil or it'll rub. If you accidently get a fine film on the coil, this is fine. Also, be careful not to agetate the coil, as it can come loose.

You will probably notice a very thick strap-like wire that winds around by the field coil. You may also remember that this was connected to the voice coil and the secondary of the output transformer. This is a hum bucking coil. It should be connected in series with the voice coil. You may not remember which way it was originally connected. This is alright. Once you get your radio working properly, power it up with the volume control turned down all the way. Take note of the hum. Reverse the hum bucking coil leads. If the hum gets quieter, keep them this way. If it gets louder, put them back to the way they were. Now reverse the voice coil wires. If the hum gets quieter, leave them this way. If it gets louder, put them back to the way they were.

THomas

Thomas...I should receive the new cone today. I ordered a couple since they are cheap. One question, I noticed in your post that you instructed me to "shim the voice coil". What do you mean here? I'm not quite picturing where a shim would be placed or its purpose. Thanks...Mike

:Thomas...I should receive the new cone today. I ordered a couple since they are cheap. One question, I noticed in your post that you instructed me to "shim the voice coil". What do you mean here? I'm not quite picturing where a shim would be placed or its purpose. Thanks...Mike

Mike,

The shims can be strips of postcard, thin plastic or picture film negative that are inserted in 3 or 4 places between the voice coil and the center pole of the speaker magnet to center it while the new cone is installed. This should insure the speaker voice coil does not rub on the center pole. After the new cone is installed, the shims are removed and then the voice coil dust cover is glued on if one is used.

Radiodoc

Your speaker does not use a voice coil dust cover since the spider is in the center. Do not put one on this speaker, either. Unfortunately, without a dust cover, dust can get between the coil and the magnet, but it doesn't happen often. Try to keep the speaker away from dust, and keep it facing down when out of the radio, if in a dusty location. Keep it away from metal filings.

I think that strips of film make the best shims. Take some old negatives and cut strips that are about 1/4 inch wide and about 1.5 to 2 inches long. They can be slightly wider than 1/4 inch if you wish. Use 3 to 4 strips to shim the voice coil and space them evenly. Due to spider construction, you might only be able to use 3 strips. In that case, be sure to make them slightly wider than 1/4 inch, perhaps 1/2 inch if you can. The shims, in any case, will keep the voice coil centered while you glue it to the cone and the cone to the frame. Tighten the spider screw with the shims in place. Tighten it so that it's snug. Don't crank on it or you'll distort the spider. The best way to tighten the screw is with one of those 10-in-1 screwdrivers that have the socket fittings. This will keep the torque to a minimum. Don't use a long handled socket wrench.

If you cannot get your film strips to fit between the voice coil and the magnet, use something slightly thinner. Film negatives seem to work well in most cases, though.

Thomas

Thanks for the speaker info. I get the shim thing now. I will use Elmers glue down at the spider, do you have a suggestion on adhesives for the cone-to-frame attachment? The frame is metal so I kind of doubt Elmers white glue would be the best. Any suggestions?

Elmer's works well. It'll give you enough time to make sure that everything's alligned. First, place the cone in the speaker and place the voice coil-spider assembly over this (thread the wires through the cone hole). Position the wires properly. Shim coil and tighten spider screw. Then, glue the cone first. Don't glue the cone to the voice coil. Glue it to the speaker frame. This will set it level with the rest of the frame and the voice coil. While the glue is wet, move the cone about until the spider seems well centered in the cone. Then, only after it looks centered, glue the spider to the cone with a small bead of glue. Allow to dry. You can speed drying with a hair dryer. Elmer's will stay flexible for quite some time, even after dry. Actually, you kind of want a rigid joint between the cone and the spider-voice coil assembly. This will allow better transfer of high notes. If you are careful, and are absolutely sure that the spider is fairly well centered in the cone, join the two with a small amount of super glue. This will form a much more rigid joint. The joint will also have less mass, which will also contribute to better treble response. DO NOT allow super glue to drip down onto the voice coil. This will freeze the coil in the magnet. Be sparing. Use only enough to join the cone to the spider assembly. If it doesn't completely join, you can touch up later. I have quite successfully used super glue at this point before. However, if you find that eventually the joint fails (I highly doubt that it will), you can always go back and join with Elmer's. Originally cones were joined with hide glue, which is rather rigid. Elmer's may eventually get rigid, but it'll take several years.

Thomas

Thanks Thomas...The speaker is now re-coned and will dry over night. It looks good. In the spirit of keeping originality I opened up the original Philco volume control and cleaned the carbon track and wiper. I also fixed the power switch and took out the new control I had installed in favor of the old pot. This is addicting! Early in this project I replaced the two big electrolytics in the power supply with new parts. I left the two big cans in place and mounted the new parts underneath on a terminal strip. I did the same sort of thing with the 4-condenser "filter bank" box. I'm thinking of trying to better this by mounting the new parts inside the old metal cases. Is this a common thing to do? If so do you have any tips for me?

You know after tuning around the AM broadcast band I feel the need to build an AM modulator to use my own programming. Do you guys do that sort of thing too?

Try 740 AM, Toronto. It has good music. Keeping things original is a great thing to do. What you can do with the electrolytics is cut them open where they are hidden by the cardboard insulators. Remove the original innards. Use the original terminals and connect to new condensers stashed inside. If one or both of the old electrolytics has the terminal insulated by rubber, and the rubber has dried out, remove the terminal and wrap with friction tape. Then re-insert the terminal with the tape and crimp the metal down onto the tape to hold it in place. Put enough tape onto the terminal where it passes through so that there is ample insulation. With the negative lead of your new condenser, you can drill a hole in the hidden part of the original container. Use a flat headed screw and face the screw so that its shank points inward. Wrap the negative lead over the screw. Tighten the nut down over the lead. Be sure that the new condensers' leads are dressed well so that no shorts may occur. If this all sounds confusing, especially the part about the original positive terminals, don't do it. It has to be done well or else it may short out in the future and damage other parts.

Good luck. How does the original potentiometer sound? Did you get it to work well? You don't really want to open the thing a lot because you'll break the little fold-over tabs (although you can solder the unit shut if needed). However, it is wise to place a very thin film of dielectric grease onto the carbon so that it is well lubricated.

Thomas

Mike, about re-building the electrolytics, go to the philcorepairbench.com, Chuck Schwark's site and you will find an article on stuffing the old cans with new caps. Its step by step instructions. PL

Thanks for the tips. Since I've come this far keeping it original I think I will go ahead and rebuild those old electrolytics as well as the block of paper capacitors I removed early on. That way it will look completely original. The re-coning process went really well. The old speaker sounds better than the replacement I had and now I can let the field coil do its job in the power supply as well.

The next major task will be the cabinet. Does anyone have a suggestion on cleaning the grill cloth. It appears to be the original and is in good shape except its pretty dirty. Maybe hand wash in a very mild detergent? The wood is in good shape but the finish is not. The top of the cabinet has turned black, I suppose due to heat from the radio. Are there some websites with info on this part of the process?

:Thanks for the tips. Since I've come this far keeping it original I think I will go ahead and rebuild those old electrolytics as well as the block of paper capacitors I removed early on. That way it will look completely original. The re-coning process went really well. The old speaker sounds better than the replacement I had and now I can let the field coil do its job in the power supply as well.
:
:The next major task will be the cabinet. Does anyone have a suggestion on cleaning the grill cloth. It appears to be the original and is in good shape except its pretty dirty. Maybe hand wash in a very mild detergent? The wood is in good shape but the finish is not. The top of the cabinet has turned black, I suppose due to heat from the radio. Are there some websites with info on this part of the process?

Mike, go to this site you'll find more than you ever wanted to know about finishing wood. http://members.aol.com/woodinfo1/salpage.htm

That web site is a very good one. The wood may be dark because of dirt, rather than tube heat. That cabinet is too large for the heat to build up. Try cleaning the radio with a good furniture soap.

Your original finish is lacquer. Mohawk lacquer toners may help you blend new finish with old. If you strip the radio, use the colored lacquers to refinish the radio. Radios were rarely stained. Staining the wood will give you a very unoriginal look. Color the wood only with colored lacquers. You will notice that the front is two toned. The trim around the bottom is also the darker color. The edge of the front's plies is also darkened to hide the layers.

About the speaker, how's the hum? Is it low? Did you check the hum bucking connections? They probably are already correct if you reconnected the voice coil the same way it was connected originally. Glad it works. I thought that you might be impressed.

Thomas

Thanks guys...I will try to rejuvenate the finish before any stripping is done. I did clean it up with mineral spirits after I got it and that helped some but it's still pretty black on top. Did you guys have any suggestions on cleaning the grill cloth? Mild soap and warm water??

The hum is greatly improved. I'm really pleased with the sound now. Thanks! I'm sure glad I forgot to empty the trash in the basement last week. I was able to retrieve the old speaker and make it right.

Mike, regarding the grill cloth, go to antiqueradios.com under hints & kinks and see article on cleaning. PL

Mike,

I finished a Philco 60 for my in-laws last Christmas, and it's a nice, attractive set.

Before you do anything that will require you to refinish the cabinet, spend 3-4 bucks and pick up a can of GoJo or similar waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice, a pack of 0000 steel wool or a Scothbrite-style scrubbing pad, and a roll of cheap paper towels (all available at your local Wally World auto and paint departments). Rub the cleaner into the wood surface a section at a time with your hand and let it sit for a few minutes, then GENTLY rub it with the steel wool or pad. You're just trying to help the cream penetrate the dirt, not scrubbing it off. Wipe the surface with a paper towel ...the cream comes out of the can white but will come off the color of black coffee and slowly get lighter. Repeat until it comes off the same color as it went on. In a few hours it will haze again as more dirt rises to the surface. Wipe this off and apply a thin coat with just your hand. When it doesn't haze over any more, buff the entire surface with a clean towel to a nice shine. You're then looking at the original finish, although slightly yellowed and darkened by age.

The results can be pretty amazing. The GoJo will float the dirt and grime from the finish, and the lanolin in the cream will rejuvinate the finish to a degree. Just make sure that you buff it enough so that it doesn't look greasy. Otherwise, it will attract dust. Doing it this way can save an original finish, which will retain value that refinishing would remove. Afterward, I usually add a coat of a quality furniture paste wax to protect the finish.

When you're done, if you still feel like you need to refinish the cabinet, you can go with the toning lacquers that were mentioned in another response. If there are a few spots where the finish is gone and the color is different, just use mineral spirits to remove the wax residue that the GoJo leaves behind and you're ready to refinish or touch up what's left.

If there are only a few small spots, I've had success with small stain pens or, for larger finish blemishes, spot application of a Minwax-type stain that matches the color of the original finish around it. Just wipe it on, give it a minute, and buff it off. It does a nice job of blending in scratches and places where the finish is worn away and has a nice, low-gloss sheen. Just don't use it to refinish the set ...that requires toning lacquer.

Good luck!

I have never used the steel wool method. Won't this remove some of the finish as well? I just use a good furniture soap and a soft brush or rag. I prefer a rag. I assume that GoJo will work quite well; probably as well as or possibly better than a furniture soap. I rinse the rag and wipe successive times to remove dirt and soap. Perhaps I should try the steel wool method?? Sounds kind of dangerous to the finish, though. However, I remember back in shop class that we applied paste wax to a lacquer finish with steel wool. It turned out quite well.

Thomas

0000 steel wool is pretty easy going stuff.
After I refinish I like the lok of satin lacquer but I find it's better to use high gloss lacquer as it's a tougher surface... then buff it down lightly with 0000 steel woll till i get the look I like.
Then buff with coase rage then soft rag.
If I want higher smother then I'll use brasso and then buff with soft t-hirt choth... Briliant "piano" like finish
Sometimes I'll apply butchers wax w/the steel wool and then buff out to a nice furniture look.

Thanks for all the re-finishing ideas. After looking at the cabinet again I notice the veneer has a bulge along the curve on one side. Not very noticable but it get a little wavy. Also, the finish in this area seems to have deteriorated down to the bare veneer surface. I wonder if it got wet in this spot. The area covers the whole depth of the side and is about 4 inches wide. The radio was in an outdoor garage at a 160 year old house in upstate New York for many years so it has seen some extremes in humidity and temperature. Maybe this could be reworked with the tinted lacquers. Is it had to blend those with the original finish?

All the replies to my grill cloth question involved spot removal and other chemical treatments. Can't I just wash the cloth in a mild detergent like Woolite?

Mike, if the grill cloth is not stained you can hand wash it in woolite. Check results and watch out for shrinkage. You may want to stretch it out to dry. If that cleans it up to your satisfaction fine. PL

Depending on which model 60 you have, you can also purchase new grill cloth. Both www.radiodaze.com and www.tubesandmore.com sell the exact replica of the original cloth that went on the first (1932) Philco 60. This is the more traditional looking model. The later (approximately 1936 or 1937) Philco 60 has the same cabinet, but the cut-out for the speaker looks more like a high-tech/space age lady bug. Also, somewhere during this time, the radio got new knobs and a new escutcheon. At any rate, the newer radio had at least two different grill cloths, neither of which I believe to be in production to-day. They weren't that attractive, anyway. I find that the newer cabinet does look quite nice with the older style grill cloth, though, so if you cannot repair/clean the original cloth, you can replace it. Give woolite a try, though. Should work.

Also, regarding the bulge in the veneer, what you can do is take regular Elmer's white glue (the stuff that's less water resistant....you don't want the water resistant kind....you'll see why) and rub it into any cracks you can find. Otherwise thin it down slightly with water and inject it with a syringe. You might not have to thin it down. Place a piece of shiny aluminum foil or plastic wrap over the veneer. Place a board over this and a board over the inside of the radio. Use a large C clamp and tighten it well. Once the glue has dried (over night is best), remove the clamp and the wood. Carefully peel away the plastic or foil. Wipe away excess glue film with a damp cloth. If you're imaginative and patient, sometimes you can bring veneered radios back from the dead. You should have no trouble repairing the bulge in your radio.

Thomas

Hmmmmm....I'm finding that there were even more cabinet styles! Here's my latest finding:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Philco-Model-60-Tubed-Cathedral-Radio_W0QQitemZ200035944679QQihZ010QQcategoryZ38034QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Traditional with interesting grill cloth:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Philco-60-Cathedral-Nice-Working-Set-Capped_W0QQitemZ320037085973QQihZ011QQcategoryZ38034QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The space aged lady bug I was talking about, though now I think it looks more like a modernistic jelly fish:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Philco-Model-60-505-Cathedral_W0QQitemZ250039111200QQihZ015QQcategoryZ38034QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

With the last one, I might add, the guy did a terriffic job of re-coning the speaker (or maybe someone else did it for him).

You might even be able to get the grill cloth for the lady bug/jelly fish model, come to think of it. I think that it's one of the cloths that www.tubesandmore.com sells. I switched mine to the 1932 style of cloth simply because I originally purchased the cloth for a 1932 style cabinet, but the cabinet was in pieces, and I wasn't able to rescue it. I later purchased what I thought was going to be the 1932 style cabinet, but instead I got the jelly fish. I'm happy with it, though. It will look nice.

Thomas

Thomas...Mine is the ladybug/jellyfish style. There are at least 3 cabinet styles as you have found. The ladybug radio you found on Ebay has a different finish than mine. Mine has a two-tone effect; basically dark but lighter accents on the front panel. I also found 3 or 4 slightly different schematics. In fact, my radio has a large black ink stamping on the chassis that says "SPECIAL" and it does not exactly match any of the schematics I found. I wonder what that means. Maybe a test run?

Hmmmmmm.....maybe it was spec'd for a celebrity! You are right about the two toning.

Thomas

here's the 8" cones at 49 cents each... great!!

http://www.electronix.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php/keywords/speaker%20cone/sort/1a/page/2

And if they fit, they'll add extra bass to your music. They'll sound really nice. Having the cone suspended as loosely as possible reduces harmonics that would otherwise be set up along a stiff cone.

For those all paper speakers that are rather stiff (those which don't require re-coning), you can rub a little vegetable oil into the flexible outer edge. This works wonders.

Thomas

The bakelite caps have all been melted out and refurbished with new mylar caps. Aftre re-assembly the radio worked great!! All voltage now within spec and it sounds good too. I am inspired to try the re-coning operation and thanks to those who posted help for me. I do notice a little hum in the audio. I wonder if the old speaker coil choke was a better filter than my 1200 Ohm resistor. I would assume so. If I can re-use the old speaker, so much the better. Thanks to everyone for all the advice...Mike

Wire in the field coil and see for yourself. Connect some long, well insulated wires from the field to the power supply (and of course disconnect your resistor). I strongly recommend re-coning the speaker. The speaker also has a hum bucking coil, which greatly helps reduce hum. I use two 20 MFD units in place of the original electrolytics. My 60 has absolutely no hum. After you put in the new cone, see how you like the audio. If necessary, you can increase the bass by placing a 30 MFD condenser across the biasing choke (item screwed to the front of the chassis). Try smaller values and work your way up. The condenser will, of course, eliminate any hum cancellation that this choke may otherwise provide. A negative feedback circuit also works wonders with this radio. A very simple one can be constructed. Also, adding a .5 Meg resistor in series with the 1st AF plate and its original B+ resistor will increase bass. Keep the bypass condenser (one that feeds the audio to the output) on the plate. Don't put resistance between it and the plate.

Thomas