Greetings, folks.

We recently aquired an AK model 612. With the exception of the Tonebeam neon indicator, all components are present. Would it be possible to aquire a replacement for this indicator lamp?

Thanks in advance. Feel free to email us at fred@nwedj.com

Very interesting radio design and very interesting beam tube. Personally I have no idea where you could find such a tube. If noone on here comes up with any ideas, you could possibly use certain eye tubes. There are some which display along the side of the glass, not necessarily the way you want. Usually they close in the middle, and don't climb to one end. They are also usually green in color. If you know of any neon shops in your area, there is a possibility that someone could build one for you (not necessarily cheaply). If a neon bulb is treated properly, though, it'll last for 100 years or more, which might make it worth your while.

Thomas

They would have to take a bulb similar in size to the original (perhaps a chemistry test tube would work?). Then all that would be necessary is to know what the original electrodes looked like to some degree and then make these out of scraps of the appropriate metal...they'd have to be inbedded in a glass base (stem/blob of glass with an evacuation tube included) much like how a tube or lightbulb is made. This base would then be fastened to the bulb (bulb cut to proper length). The air would be evacuated through the evacuation tube and a small trace of neon gas would be inserted...the amount necessary for a typical neon light, perhaps. The evacuation tube would then be sealed and the bulb would be ready for use. Mounting would be up to you. I strongly recommend mounting in a radio tube base of your choice (with ample pins...4 seems adequate). If you fastened simply with wires, you'd risk breaking the wires. The tube can be glued into the tube base with J-B Weld (excellent) after the wires are soldered to the base pins.

Thomas

Hi Fred

You might have to make something like Thomas suggests. I can't remember seeing a good Tonebeam. The glass usually has turned black. I did see some for sale on eBay a couple times but they were very expensive.

Norm

:They would have to take a bulb similar in size to the original (perhaps a chemistry test tube would work?). Then all that would be necessary is to know what the original electrodes looked like to some degree and then make these out of scraps of the appropriate metal...they'd have to be inbedded in a glass base (stem/blob of glass with an evacuation tube included) much like how a tube or lightbulb is made. This base would then be fastened to the bulb (bulb cut to proper length). The air would be evacuated through the evacuation tube and a small trace of neon gas would be inserted...the amount necessary for a typical neon light, perhaps. The evacuation tube would then be sealed and the bulb would be ready for use. Mounting would be up to you. I strongly recommend mounting in a radio tube base of your choice (with ample pins...4 seems adequate). If you fastened simply with wires, you'd risk breaking the wires. The tube can be glued into the tube base with J-B Weld (excellent) after the wires are soldered to the base pins.
:
:Thomas

Thanks, guys. :o)

We hadn't planned to bring this set up to full working restoration... just wanted it to be complete for the sake of original appearance. Since the Tonebeam isn't noticeable from the outside I may wait on that.

Full working restoration is a great idea. I highly recommend it. Why not?

Thomas

Greets, Thomas.

Our hope is to get the set working first. I've placed an order for replacement caps (which it badly needs) and we can go from there. To be honest I don't know when we'll have the time to do a full restoration. We would like to have the cab professionally refinished, though.

Well, if you don't get the beam indicator working, I think that the set will be fun otherwise. Remember, too, that until then you can use a magic eye tube. I can't remember the number, but there are a few nine pin miniature tubes with the beam on the side of the glass. There's one for stereo and perhaps one for mono. It wouldn't be that hard to fit one of these into the radio. They don't require much other than the AVC signal.

Thomas

:Well, if you don't get the beam indicator working, I think that the set will be fun otherwise. Remember, too, that until then you can use a magic eye tube. I can't remember the number, but there are a few nine pin miniature tubes with the beam on the side of the glass. There's one for stereo and perhaps one for mono. It wouldn't be that hard to fit one of these into the radio. They don't require much other than the AVC signal.
:
:Thomas

the EM84 is a 9 pin, single side bar that closes in from both ends, 6al7, 6af6, 6ad6 are the octial EM84 are not to expensive.

The schematic on this web page for the EM84 is baffling, as it doesn't show where the target and such are on this tube, and since I don't own this tube personally, I can't tell you what is what. However, from the schematic it does appear that this tube has a control triode built in along with the deflection/target section, so it should be ideal for your radio. Again, the beam won't climb to the top, but rather it'll close towards the middle. However, it may do the trick. If I had the tube I could tell you exact details as to how it would wire to your radio. Perhaps someone else on here can tell you. Basically you'd wire the control triode like a 6U5 tube, though. The grid of this would simply connect to the AVC section of your radio. The triode section of the tube would then control the deflectors, which would deflect the beam (they are usually connected directly to the plate of the control triode, which is fed B+ through a resistor at approximately 1 Megohm). The target of the display and the plate of the control triode would connect to B+ through suitable dropping resistors. No other external circuitry would be necessary, so the addition of this tube would be quite simple....if you wish to do so. It will by no means look like the neon indicator, but if it fits appropriately, it may still add an interesting touch to the radio.

If you are interested in this, ask. You will need to know details on exact resistances and voltages required for the plates. Otherwise it should be simple to wire up.

Thomas

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/tubes/em84.htm

I assume that the elements to the left are that of the control triode, and that pin 7 is the deflector.

Thomas

Greets, Thomas.

Somewhere out there on the prarie is an old DM70 or 1M3 indicator that we had the presence of mind to save from an Eico tuner that was scrapped out. Do you think this would work?

Please bear in mind that I'm no expert on tube technology, LOL. :o)

Not familiar with that indicator. However, by looking at its schematic I can tell that it lacks a control triode. This would necessitate adding another tube for controlling purposes. Perhaps the tube that originally controlled the neon indicator could be modified to control this tube. I am by no means certain.

T.

:Not familiar with that indicator. However, by looking at its schematic I can tell that it lacks a control triode. This would necessitate adding another tube for controlling purposes. Perhaps the tube that originally controlled the neon indicator could be modified to control this tube. I am by no means certain.
:
:T.

Hey Thomas,

If you would like to see pictures of a tonembeam in operation, check out http://radioheaven.homestead.com/Tune_A_Lite.html

Radiodoc

Very interesting. I like the bulb. Doesn't look too hard to replicate, either, though you'd need a neon light expert to do so. I can't imagine it being too expensive to make, though it will be a custom job. There is no glass bending required, which has much to do with the expense of neon lights.

If you are not able to have one replicated, the DM70 might do the trick. I didn't realize that the beam indicator was so small and skinny--it's slimmer that a AA cell. The tube which originally drove the neon indicator would have to be modified so that it could drive the DM70. If at all possible, though, I recommend having a new neon indicator built. It really looks simple. A chemistry test tube will certainly do the trick. The electrodes look to be extremely simple in design. You would have to obtain a base like the original. This is perhaps a bayonet automotive type base? These are readily available. After properly attaching the wires to the base, the bulb can be easily fastened with J-B Weld.

Thomas

In case you haven't found it yet. Here is your schematic:

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/431/M0001431.pdf

:Greetings, folks.
:
:We recently aquired an AK model 612. With the exception of the Tonebeam neon indicator, all components are present. Would it be possible to aquire a replacement for this indicator lamp?
:
:Thanks in advance. Feel free to email us at fred@nwedj.com

Greets, Stephen and thanks.

We have the schematic ~ downloaded it from this site once we got the set. It's been an immense help with identifying component values and voltages. We were hoping to find an aftermarket Tonebeam lamp but have had no luck thus far. Google searches look promising but haven't been of help.

I've placed an order for replacement caps from 2CO.com. Once they arrive I can install 'em under the chassis and go from there. There's a loud 60 Hz hum when the set warms up so we know the speakers work, at least. But the caps will have to be replaced before we can proceed.

Get the November 2003 issue of Popular Communications. This Exerpt of it, talks about just the thing you need:

http://www.popular-communications.com/11Wireless%20.html

:Greets, Stephen and thanks.
:
:We have the schematic ~ downloaded it from this site once we got the set. It's been an immense help with identifying component values and voltages. We were hoping to find an aftermarket Tonebeam lamp but have had no luck thus far. Google searches look promising but haven't been of help.
:
:I've placed an order for replacement caps from 2CO.com. Once they arrive I can install 'em under the chassis and go from there. There's a loud 60 Hz hum when the set warms up so we know the speakers work, at least. But the caps will have to be replaced before we can proceed.

TEST...CYHMN?

??? Nope!

Hey everybody in on the thread:
This tuning indicator seems to be one of the most interesting items that I have seen mentioned lately.
I am well familiar with all of the later green fluorescing tubes within the 6E5-6G5-6U5-6H5-6N5-6AB5-6AF6-6AL7-6EG5-6M1-6ME10-6S5-6T5-1629-2E5-2G5 family , as well into the later , smaller,side viewed tuning tubes like the 6GX8-EM80-EM84 tuning eye slot tubes and even the low voltage filament rated 1M3 and 1N3 exclamation mark tubes.

Referencing all of the sources that I was able to find on the device, it was still hard to finitely confirm the inner structuring of the typical 3 internal electrodes. But it did seem on one close up photo, that the short electrodes were about 1/7 the length of the longer electrode, with the electrodes diameters being in the order of the very largest common metal paper clip wire to be encountered. Definition/detail is still not precise as to the positioning of the two short electrodes, as to their being set aside equidistant to the rear of the long electrode making a triangular placement. Or, the other thought , of them being placed with one to the front and one to the rear of the center electrode. Thomas was thinking of an envelope profile sizing of a common lab test tube, but I would degrade that downward to a junior sizing. Most people would be more familiar with that sizing as being the one utilized when a blood sample is extracted.
One thing readily apparent on a site showing the tube in operation, was the fact that they were so hard driven that an additional yellow coloration of the orange gaseous display had onset. Far too much drive!; no wonder the units rapidly experienced ion burns, metal migration and a dimming of the display. The other thing that the tuning electrode was displaying at two different drive current levels, purportedly, off station and peaked on station conditions, was the minimal change in the length of the illuminated electrode. That is one abysmally small change in length!

I was already busy researching into info that…..Stephen, I think….also later came up with as per Ed’s solution to the like problem that he had with his AK console restoration.
Now if any one goes to the Pop-Com Website , they will merely find that “tickler” excerpt / thumbnail / snippet of information. Hardly enough information to let one know that a common neon lamp type of replacement is involved in the modification.
Now it is also very interesting to know that if I needed that particular article, it would be easier to get it through inter-library-loan information as a Braille article, rather than as an actual Xeroxed copy of the article ! Is any one here adept with Braille schematics?
At any rate, I got all the articles info and transported as a higher definition J-peg format so that even all of the little bits on the DUOVAC tube manufacturers advertisement can even be read. Not so true on the contrast differences experienced on the photos…even so when viewing the articles photos directly within the magazines illustrations..

So here goes on the info download….brace yourself:

FIRST PAGE
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8417/wirelessconnection11uf.jpg

SECOND PAGE
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6780/wirelessconnection29uk.jpg

THIRD PAGE
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8469/wirelessconnection34jc.jpg

FOURTH PAGE
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1341/wirelessconnecton4mod9wb.jpg

(It may take a min unless you have Cable or DSL, but then after the info download , be sure to left mouse click on the right-bottom …MAG logo…..or use a top mouse roll to get upwards to ~200X before pixilation onsets.)

Some related /asides on NE51H lamps:
Déjà vu….but waaay back in 1970……. where it seems like I also had put some NE-51H’s to a novel use at the time when I had built up a GIANT four digit /seven segment digital clock display that was 1 ft high by 4 feet wide.
5 close spaced lamps were laid out in a line on a large sheet of bakelite with their orange lit electrodes oriented to be to the front of the display. Each of the individual seven segments of a digit were laid out in this manner , with their slight slope duplicating the same angles made by a:

Beckman/Sperry ½ inch two digit Panaplex display
http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/numitrons/sp352-2beckman.jpg

which was mounted in the top right center of the last digit to the right to display advancing seconds of time. The larger constructed 4 digits displayed the hours and minutes with a flashing dual set of 4 lamps forming the center colon.. That colon flashed at 1 second intervals.
Twenty pieces of TTL logic performed the counting / timing/ decoding functions with discrete transistor HV interfacing to the neon lamps while the clocks time base was just the AC line frequency divided down. The power company DOES do a good job of timely incremental long term freq corrections.
There was ALSO the matching of firing points of NE-51H’s on that unit on the individual segments, but I had a box of 500 to select from. I also had the tubes pre-biased at a +40 VDC level so that there would be a more distinct hysteresis in on-off segment transition.
The whole framed and wall mounted clock panel was labeled as a Digital Chronometer and it received its share of attention for months.
This was back at the time when the minute seven segments displays with their a molded on magnifying lenses were your displays on TI, Novus,Cannon, Bomar pocket calculators and the larger ½ inch LED seven segments were just coming online. At that time, the largest displays that I knew of was the neon Nixie displays of the New York Stock Exchange with their 2 ¾ inch digits….Giant Nixies..

http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/tubes/361-b-7971-tiny.jpg

On the tuning indicator modification:
The last thing that I was thinking was associated with the utilization of a big 6C4 to be used on the circuit board, I was also thinking towards the use of a miniature pencil tube also, either as a triode or as a tetrode or pentode rewired as a triode, but I do see that he had initially done the very same thing on his prototype. For some reason he did not utilize it, possibly due to the future acquisition of another pencil tube, as compared to a 7 pin mini 6C4 ? I also see that the lateral dispersion of the orange display lighting was enhanced by the utilization of dual lateral strips of shiny aluminum foil to the lamps sides. I think that I also would have placed a strip at the rear of the lamps to direct light forward. With the lamp leads covered in insulation acquired from Kynar wire-wrap wire and then with the lamps leads routed thru micro holes in the foil at their rear.

Just my thoughts.

Duovac:
See the red brick of the old Duovac site area in the foreground, dwarfed by the newer One Brooklyn Bridge Park Condominiums in the background.

73’s de Edd

oooops.....

:Duovac:
:See the red brick of the old Duovac site area in the foreground, dwarfed by the newer One Brooklyn Bridge Park Condominiums in the background.

http://www.jw-media.org/images/ads/index_360furman.jpg
:

:73’s de Edd