Nowadays, the normal convention for toggle switches is: up=ON and down=OFF.

I've noticed that 1920s-era TRF AC-powered sets typically mounted their power switches horizontally: left=OFF and right=ON.

I first encountered this on an Atwater Kent Model 55, and assumed that somebody in the past had carelessly mounted the switch wrong. I then discovered that the physical wiring arrangement would not accept a vertical switch mounting. Since then, I've encountered other sets with the horizontal configuration.

I wonder what prompted the change in convention.

I’d say the AC wall switch eventually set the standard for toggle switch position, since the majority of homes back then with electricity did not have a radio. I only have a few radios with toggle switches, but the only ones that are horizontal mounted are on two battery sets. One of them was made in about 1924 and the other in 1926. I have a 1926 Marti, which is one of the first true AC sets with indirectly heated cathode tubes, and the three toggle switches on the front panel are mounted vertical. Space requirements probably dictated the mounting position in many cases, but a radio with a large production run such as the AK 55 may have saved a good bit of wire.

:Nowadays, the normal convention for toggle switches is: up=ON and down=OFF.
:
:I've noticed that 1920s-era TRF AC-powered sets typically mounted their power switches horizontally: left=OFF and right=ON.
:
:I first encountered this on an Atwater Kent Model 55, and assumed that somebody in the past had carelessly mounted the switch wrong. I then discovered that the physical wiring arrangement would not accept a vertical switch mounting. Since then, I've encountered other sets with the horizontal configuration.
:
:I wonder what prompted the change in convention.

Hi Doug,
Interesting question you raised.

You mention that normal convention for wall toggle switches is up=ON and down=OFF. This is certainly true in the USA, but in Europe (at least on the continent) the reverse is true.

Poston

:Nowadays, the normal convention for toggle switches is: up=ON and down=OFF.
:
:I've noticed that 1920s-era TRF AC-powered sets typically mounted their power switches horizontally: left=OFF and right=ON.
:
:I first encountered this on an Atwater Kent Model 55, and assumed that somebody in the past had carelessly mounted the switch wrong. I then discovered that the physical wiring arrangement would not accept a vertical switch mounting. Since then, I've encountered other sets with the horizontal configuration.
:
:I wonder what prompted the change in convention.

On my Grigsby Grunow Majestic 180, the toggle switch, which is in the upper right hand corner of the radio panel, is down-on, up-off. I don't know why they did this other than so that the wires go down. Usually with those small ball handle over center spring switches, the terminals go out the "on" side. Placing the switch so that up was on would have the wires going up into the top board of the cabinet.

One place where I often find down-on switches is on vacuum cleaners which are equipped with such switches. This actually makes a lot of sense when the switch is mounted on the handle. As you place your hand down over the handle, you move your fingers down the handle. Conveniently you are able to flick the switch on at the same time. As you pull your hands up and off of the handle, you may flick the switch off. I always thought it was weird how my mother's late 1970s Hoover had this. I thought that they wired the switch upside-down. This is when I was young and thought that there was only one right way to everything. Well, more recently, like when I was about 14 or 15, I kind of figured out why they mounted the switch the way they did. Makes sense now. I've seen many other Hoovers like this, and Reginas are often like this (Elektrik Broom....is that spelled with Ks? I think so). On to-day's vacuums you often find a foot switch. I don't know if they mount the switches on the handle in the upside-down position anymore. My mother still owns her wonderful but ugly Hoover, and I own a 1948 Electrolux model XXX canister with a push-button switch, so I haven't had much personal experience with modern vacuums.

Thomas

:On my Grigsby Grunow Majestic 180, the toggle switch, which is in the upper right hand corner of the radio panel, is down-on, up-off. I don't know why they did this other than so that the wires go down. Usually with those small ball handle over center spring switches, the terminals go out the "on" side. Placing the switch so that up was on would have the wires going up into the top board of the cabinet.
:
:One place where I often find down-on switches is on vacuum cleaners which are equipped with such switches. This actually makes a lot of sense when the switch is mounted on the handle. As you place your hand down over the handle, you move your fingers down the handle. Conveniently you are able to flick the switch on at the same time. As you pull your hands up and off of the handle, you may flick the switch off. I always thought it was weird how my mother's late 1970s Hoover had this. I thought that they wired the switch upside-down. This is when I was young and thought that there was only one right way to everything. Well, more recently, like when I was about 14 or 15, I kind of figured out why they mounted the switch the way they did. Makes sense now. I've seen many other Hoovers like this, and Reginas are often like this (Elektrik Broom....is that spelled with Ks? I think so). On to-day's vacuums you often find a foot switch. I don't know if they mount the switches on the handle in the upside-down position anymore. My mother still owns her wonderful but ugly Hoover, and I own a 1948 Electrolux model XXX canister with a push-button switch, so I haven't had much personal experience with modern vacuums.
:
:Thomas

Gee's! how did you guys ever get to the moon! Every one knows that for a toggle switch, down is on and up is off.(please, that was just a joke from me , don't mean any offence!) Like Ponston said, European standards are different. Having been born in the RSA and still having to work (after 39 years!) in the Maritime radio enviroment on Marconi/Eddystone/racal equipment, it is second nature for me to press a toggle switch down to switch something on, especially EHT. imagine how difficult it must be for a European astronaut to rememer,on a US mission, to do the right thing! Sorry Thomas for rambling! Once again guys I was just joking at the start. Merry Xmas.
Regards: Des.

Des, you're a troublemaker!

By the way, there is another confusing U.S. power convention (which doesn't much impact radios).

In the U.S., industrial control systems typically use a green pilot lamp to indicate ON, energized, "system running," "valve open," or "switch closed." A red lamp indicates the opposite.

But electric utilities, power plants, etc., use red to indicate ON, energized, or "switch closed" - and green for the opposite. Supposedly, this comes from the usage of electric linemen to associate red tags with "danger."

Operators who move between industrial and utility jobs are often quite confused.

Interesting. Not that this has anything really to do with industrial controls, but the turn signal indicator in my car is red. By late 1951 it was green. All of the optional turn signal switching units that were sold prior to this time (they clamp onto the steering wheel, should the owner of the car desire turn signals) have red indicators. Also, the bright lights indicator on most old cars prior to sometime in the late 1960s or early 1970s are red. They changed to blue after this time.

I guess I can see how having a red turn signal indicator would be conflicting with the green traffic light. It feels more natural to have green turn signals even though I am perfectly used to my red one. I can feel a slight reduction in tenseness in my brain or whatever, when I drive a car with green turn signals. It really doesn't bother me, though. Perhaps my reduction in tenseness is because most modern cars have seat belts, and this comforts me. My steel dash kind of worries me at times.

Another interesting thing I found out recently is why they color the safety call station lights on my university campus deep purple (each call station is marked by a deep purple lamp, and you can use this station to call the police). Studies were done that found that males are most agitated by this color. Before and after I found out about this I have found that I am agitated by this color even though I like it. Supposedly this deters men from attacking women or whatever they want to attack. Interestingly enough, Volkswagen uses this color to illuminate the numbers on the gauges of their new cars. It does bother me somewhat while I'm driving. It tends to make my heart tense. Green has been scientifically found to relax people, which is why it is the traditional color for instrument panels in automobiles. Martha Stewart seems to agree on the pleasing qualities of the color green.

Sorry to get off in a tangent, but I thought this was interesting.

Thomas

No offense here. I'm the rambler. Usually people complain about my rambling. I never complain about others rambling. I would like to know some logic to the different ways of mounting a switch, though. With the vacuum cleaner, this all makes sense. I'd like to know why the U.S. people like up as on and the Europeans like down as on. One thing that comes to mind with the up idea is that up gives you more of a positive state of mind. We usually refer to happy people as up in spirits, and sad people as down in the dumps. It would make sense that there is some psycological connection to our choice in switching. The light comes on when the switch is moved upward. Moving it down makes the room dark.

Also, another thought more safety minded than psycological, is that gravity would aid the switch down, which would be the default place for it to fall should it malfunction. It would be better that this be the off position than the on position. Still, as we all know, especially with over center spring switches, they fail any way they wish.

I can see, too, with the European method, that it is easier to flop your hand down on the switch in order to turn on the lights than it is to raise your hand. Either way you raise your hand, but gravity assists you in turning on the switch when the switch moves downward for the on position.

It would be interesting to find out the exact reasons (I'm sure that there are many) as to why we all chose our different switch positionings.

Thomas