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old 78 RPM records sound quality
6/20/2005 9:47:03 AMBrian
I've noticed some records play better than others when it comes to volume, quality, later vintage more so. Is this due to wear or the actual production of records (e.g. 1930s vs. 1950s production)?
6/20/2005 6:55:33 PMThomas Dermody
Records from about 1927 and prior are acoustically recorded. During this period there is a transition to electrical recording, which sounds better than acoustical recording. By 1930, almost all records are electrically recorded. By the late 1930s, companies such as Columbia and Victor (RCA owned) were putting out records with superb fidelity and surfaces. Decca was pretty good at this point, too, though their surfaces are a bit more noisy. Lesser known brands put out records of every quality. Capitol has always had very good fidelity, buth their surfaces have not always been clean for the finished product, regardless of how clean their original masters were.

In the middle 1940s, Columbia started using a slightly narrower groove and better fidelity, though at times a bit harsh in the treble region. RCA started recording with nitrous-celluloid discs instead of wax, which didn't sound too good at first. Some RCA records during this time sounded gargly and distorted.

In the late 1940s, around 1949, the major labels (RCA, Columbia, Decca, and Capitol) used much quieter surfaces and really pushed the bass and treble. These are the 1950s type 78s that are much louder than the earlier 78s. The push in the treble and bass regions allowed owners of older phonographs to experience some of the high fidelity craze. Played on a high fidelity phonograph these records also sound incredible. Unfortunately the overpush of the volume can cause tracking problems with a stiffer cartridge (poor lateral movement), and can cause distortion.

You must use a proper needle of the highest quality, and a good cartridge, in order to secure good results from any 78. Most of my records, which date from the mid-1930s to the mid-1940s, sound superb. The needle should be saphire or diamond and 3 mil in size. Saphire chips easily, so it should be checked and replaced often, especially when used on records that have been played with steel needles. Diamond does not chip. With laterally recorded records, the cartridge should not respond to any vertical modulation--surface noise. The old twist style set screw cartridges are too stiff, and wear out records prematurely. Some stereo cartridges are good with 78 rpm records, as the two channels can be connected in parallel, which tends to cancel out vertical modulation. I really like the Zenith Cobra cartridge, when fitted with a 3 mil diamond needle. Anything smaller than a 3 mil needle, such as an "all speed" needle, will increase surface noise and wear.

As said before, vertical modulation should not be converted to electrical impulses. However, vertical movement should be good, as otherwise premature record wear will result. Lateral movement of the needle should also be free, so that the needle may follow all movement of the groove.

Thomas

6/20/2005 8:16:27 PMMarv Nuce
Thomas,
I have an AIWA PX-E855 garage sale leftover turntable with 45 and 33 1/3 rpm only, but plan to make a drive wheel to do 78's. I have several 78's going back to the 30's, and even complete, unplayed albums of movie soundtracks. Where can I get the cartridge you specified for this unit?
marv

:Records from about 1927 and prior are acoustically recorded. During this period there is a transition to electrical recording, which sounds better than acoustical recording. By 1930, almost all records are electrically recorded. By the late 1930s, companies such as Columbia and Victor (RCA owned) were putting out records with superb fidelity and surfaces. Decca was pretty good at this point, too, though their surfaces are a bit more noisy. Lesser known brands put out records of every quality. Capitol has always had very good fidelity, buth their surfaces have not always been clean for the finished product, regardless of how clean their original masters were.
:
:In the middle 1940s, Columbia started using a slightly narrower groove and better fidelity, though at times a bit harsh in the treble region. RCA started recording with nitrous-celluloid discs instead of wax, which didn't sound too good at first. Some RCA records during this time sounded gargly and distorted.
:
:In the late 1940s, around 1949, the major labels (RCA, Columbia, Decca, and Capitol) used much quieter surfaces and really pushed the bass and treble. These are the 1950s type 78s that are much louder than the earlier 78s. The push in the treble and bass regions allowed owners of older phonographs to experience some of the high fidelity craze. Played on a high fidelity phonograph these records also sound incredible. Unfortunately the overpush of the volume can cause tracking problems with a stiffer cartridge (poor lateral movement), and can cause distortion.
:
:You must use a proper needle of the highest quality, and a good cartridge, in order to secure good results from any 78. Most of my records, which date from the mid-1930s to the mid-1940s, sound superb. The needle should be saphire or diamond and 3 mil in size. Saphire chips easily, so it should be checked and replaced often, especially when used on records that have been played with steel needles. Diamond does not chip. With laterally recorded records, the cartridge should not respond to any vertical modulation--surface noise. The old twist style set screw cartridges are too stiff, and wear out records prematurely. Some stereo cartridges are good with 78 rpm records, as the two channels can be connected in parallel, which tends to cancel out vertical modulation. I really like the Zenith Cobra cartridge, when fitted with a 3 mil diamond needle. Anything smaller than a 3 mil needle, such as an "all speed" needle, will increase surface noise and wear.
:
:As said before, vertical modulation should not be converted to electrical impulses. However, vertical movement should be good, as otherwise premature record wear will result. Lateral movement of the needle should also be free, so that the needle may follow all movement of the groove.
:
:Thomas

6/23/2005 1:51:58 AMThomas Dermody
Well, I know my records, but I don't know my cartridges. Contact www.west-techservices.com to see if they know. Otherwise what I do when I am confronted with such a problem is I improvize.

Noone sells a new Zenith Cobra cartridge that has the same inner workings as the old ones. The new ones have a metal armature that is one stamped piece. The old ones are a four piece unit that is spot welded together--stylus mount, diaphram, and two suspension ears. The new ones, because of this design difference, are not as stable audio wise. Furthermore, you cannot get one with a good 3 mil needle. They usually have an "all speed" needle, which does not sound good and ruins 78s. What I do is take my original Cobra which also had an "all speed" needle, and I very carefully remove the gem with a razor, wearing an "Optivisor." Then I obtain a 3 mil diamond or saphire stylus of the set-screw flexible shank type, either new or old stock (Recoton, for instance). I remove the gem from this needle and put it in the hole of the flexible shank of the Cobra. I glue it with super glue. The gluing job must be good or the gem will fall out while playing. This is a very tedious job, but I have done it at least 20 times with much success and enjoyment. With a modern phonograph like your's, you do not have to worry about ruining the stylus, as it is more readily available, though it can be expensive. If your cartridge requires very little pressure for proper operation (the DUAL, for instance, requires only about 2.5 grams), your needle should last a long time. Generally, however, for 78s, you want a slightly larger tracking force, say 4 grams. Ideally your cartridge, or the device that plugs into the cartridge in the case of the SHURE magnetic cartridges used in DUAL phonographs, should be designed for 78 rpm use. You should get fine results from a normal LP cartridge, however. 78s tend to have rougher surfaces--ripples and such, so a slightly more rugged cartridge is a plus.

Talk to west-techservices.com and see what they can offer you. I do not know what kind of cartridge your AIWA phonograph currently takes or what it could take for 78 rpm use. If it is of the ceramic variety, then it most likely will be slightly stiffer, which is ideal for 78 rpm use. I know for sure, however, that DUAL made extremely high quality phonographs in the 1970s that had three speeds. Originally you could purchase 3 mil needles for the plug-in SHURE cartridges. You can purchase these phonographs on eBay now for only about $20. One I own myself has difficulty with the speed changing device. It is puck driven. This particular model tends to have a plastic part that breaks, making speed changing a bit more difficult. I still can change speeds with mine, but I have to advance the lever farther than normal for each speed change, and the table must be revolving. This unit also has trouble with the automation device, in that rubber bumpers move the tone arm via friction. They tend to slip now. I roughened up the surfaces which they rub upon, restoring performance. This unit also uses a drop down device that requires no pressure arm. There are three clasps that come out of the spindle, and hold the other records while one drops down. These eat out the holes of the records, and will not work with worn holes. I do not recommend stacking records anyway. It's fun and convenient, but ruins the surfaces. With 78s, small hairline cracks develop as well, which turn into canyons eventually--your record being broken in two.

I have also seen a DUAL that is a single play unit that has three speeds. They are electronically controled via a quartz crystal circuit. Pushing buttons is all you must do to change the speed. An annoying design flaw with this unit, however, is a pre-set time delay that assumes that the motor must get up to speed each time a record is put on, and so the tone arm will not lower until after this pre-set time delay. This slows down record playing, which is very annoying when playing singles. I, myself, like to make the record change as fast as humanly possible (I'm pretty good at changing records by hand at a very fast and accurate pace).

Anyway, if you can't figure out something with your AIWA, or can't find another AIWA that will suit your needs, you can try out DUALs on eBay, as well as other high end phonographs you may come across.

If you are rather handy, you could also fit your AIWA with a Zenith Cobra cartridge. You will have to build the Cobra circuit, however, which requires a special coil, and you will have to find a Cobra cartridge socket.

What you could also do is fit your phonograph with the more modern ceramic Cobra cartridge (www.west-techservices.com needles page, first color picture under Common Popular Available Needles, #712). These were used in thousands of school phonographs and all sorts of portable phonographs. The cartridge is small and long in length. The end holds two styluses, each at almost a 45 degree angle to the crystal. Rotating the socket changes the needle. If you can simply find a phonograph with this socket (rather easy, as noone wants these phonographs and there are still thousands of them...also try West-Tech, as they may have some), you may use the socket on your phonograph if you can figure out how to mount it. Usually the cartridge is a mono unit, which will suit you well. If the cartridge has either a worn out 78 needle, or has no 78 needle (some were fitted with two LP needles, one for early wide groove LPs--2 mil, and the other for stereo groove LPs--1 mil), you may simply push the 78 needle or one of the LP needles out with a sewing needle. They are held in the plastic with glue. Push in a needle from a sacrificial set screw 78 rpm stylus and glue it with super glue. You will know if the cartridge has two LP needles, as both will sound horrible on a 78, and may scratch up the bottom of the groove. This cartridge should use a tracking force of about 7-10 grams. Anything at 14 grams or under is ideal for 78 rpm records.

Remember that though too heavy a force will dig out the grooves, too light a force with too stiff a cartridge will allow the needle to bounce around, also damaging the grooves.

Thomas

6/23/2005 12:53:56 PMMarv Nuce
Thomas,
Thanks for your input. My primary intent was to gauge the quality of these records, in order to sell them. I have over 300 33's, 45's, and 78's. I'm just not into music these days, and would prefer to rid myself of these dust magnets. I was able to create a larger motor pulley, and increase the 45 rpm speed to near 78 rpm, but the audio was really bad. Probably a cheap ebay purchase would be far less effort.
marv

:Well, I know my records, but I don't know my cartridges. Contact www.west-techservices.com to see if they know. Otherwise what I do when I am confronted with such a problem is I improvize.
:
:Noone sells a new Zenith Cobra cartridge that has the same inner workings as the old ones. The new ones have a metal armature that is one stamped piece. The old ones are a four piece unit that is spot welded together--stylus mount, diaphram, and two suspension ears. The new ones, because of this design difference, are not as stable audio wise. Furthermore, you cannot get one with a good 3 mil needle. They usually have an "all speed" needle, which does not sound good and ruins 78s. What I do is take my original Cobra which also had an "all speed" needle, and I very carefully remove the gem with a razor, wearing an "Optivisor." Then I obtain a 3 mil diamond or saphire stylus of the set-screw flexible shank type, either new or old stock (Recoton, for instance). I remove the gem from this needle and put it in the hole of the flexible shank of the Cobra. I glue it with super glue. The gluing job must be good or the gem will fall out while playing. This is a very tedious job, but I have done it at least 20 times with much success and enjoyment. With a modern phonograph like your's, you do not have to worry about ruining the stylus, as it is more readily available, though it can be expensive. If your cartridge requires very little pressure for proper operation (the DUAL, for instance, requires only about 2.5 grams), your needle should last a long time. Generally, however, for 78s, you want a slightly larger tracking force, say 4 grams. Ideally your cartridge, or the device that plugs into the cartridge in the case of the SHURE magnetic cartridges used in DUAL phonographs, should be designed for 78 rpm use. You should get fine results from a normal LP cartridge, however. 78s tend to have rougher surfaces--ripples and such, so a slightly more rugged cartridge is a plus.
:
:Talk to west-techservices.com and see what they can offer you. I do not know what kind of cartridge your AIWA phonograph currently takes or what it could take for 78 rpm use. If it is of the ceramic variety, then it most likely will be slightly stiffer, which is ideal for 78 rpm use. I know for sure, however, that DUAL made extremely high quality phonographs in the 1970s that had three speeds. Originally you could purchase 3 mil needles for the plug-in SHURE cartridges. You can purchase these phonographs on eBay now for only about $20. One I own myself has difficulty with the speed changing device. It is puck driven. This particular model tends to have a plastic part that breaks, making speed changing a bit more difficult. I still can change speeds with mine, but I have to advance the lever farther than normal for each speed change, and the table must be revolving. This unit also has trouble with the automation device, in that rubber bumpers move the tone arm via friction. They tend to slip now. I roughened up the surfaces which they rub upon, restoring performance. This unit also uses a drop down device that requires no pressure arm. There are three clasps that come out of the spindle, and hold the other records while one drops down. These eat out the holes of the records, and will not work with worn holes. I do not recommend stacking records anyway. It's fun and convenient, but ruins the surfaces. With 78s, small hairline cracks develop as well, which turn into canyons eventually--your record being broken in two.
:
:I have also seen a DUAL that is a single play unit that has three speeds. They are electronically controled via a quartz crystal circuit. Pushing buttons is all you must do to change the speed. An annoying design flaw with this unit, however, is a pre-set time delay that assumes that the motor must get up to speed each time a record is put on, and so the tone arm will not lower until after this pre-set time delay. This slows down record playing, which is very annoying when playing singles. I, myself, like to make the record change as fast as humanly possible (I'm pretty good at changing records by hand at a very fast and accurate pace).
:
:Anyway, if you can't figure out something with your AIWA, or can't find another AIWA that will suit your needs, you can try out DUALs on eBay, as well as other high end phonographs you may come across.
:
:If you are rather handy, you could also fit your AIWA with a Zenith Cobra cartridge. You will have to build the Cobra circuit, however, which requires a special coil, and you will have to find a Cobra cartridge socket.
:
:What you could also do is fit your phonograph with the more modern ceramic Cobra cartridge (www.west-techservices.com needles page, first color picture under Common Popular Available Needles, #712). These were used in thousands of school phonographs and all sorts of portable phonographs. The cartridge is small and long in length. The end holds two styluses, each at almost a 45 degree angle to the crystal. Rotating the socket changes the needle. If you can simply find a phonograph with this socket (rather easy, as noone wants these phonographs and there are still thousands of them...also try West-Tech, as they may have some), you may use the socket on your phonograph if you can figure out how to mount it. Usually the cartridge is a mono unit, which will suit you well. If the cartridge has either a worn out 78 needle, or has no 78 needle (some were fitted with two LP needles, one for early wide groove LPs--2 mil, and the other for stereo groove LPs--1 mil), you may simply push the 78 needle or one of the LP needles out with a sewing needle. They are held in the plastic with glue. Push in a needle from a sacrificial set screw 78 rpm stylus and glue it with super glue. You will know if the cartridge has two LP needles, as both will sound horrible on a 78, and may scratch up the bottom of the groove. This cartridge should use a tracking force of about 7-10 grams. Anything at 14 grams or under is ideal for 78 rpm records.
:
:Remember that though too heavy a force will dig out the grooves, too light a force with too stiff a cartridge will allow the needle to bounce around, also damaging the grooves.
:
:Thomas

6/23/2005 3:46:07 PMThomas Dermody
The audio was probably really bad (lots of hiss and very faint music) because you were using the 1 mil LP needle. The 1 mil needle will fall to the bottom of a 3 mil groove. It will bounce around, mostly missing the music, hitting the surface at the bottom of the groove, usually damaging the groove if the pressure is great. I do not recommend this at all for long term, but if you gently push the tone arm so that the needle rests against one side of the groove or the other, you may improve the sound quality a bit. DO NOT DO THIS REPEATEDLY. The very small needle will damage the groove.

Thomas

6/23/2005 4:42:18 PMMarv Nuce
Thomas,
Thanks. Its a newer (1998) player, and undoubtably designed for the microgroove LP's and 45's. A casual look thru my dirty glasses and tired old eyes can hardly distinguish 1mil from 1mm. I only played a few grooves, so any damage is limited, and it was not one of my more cherished 78's anyway.
marv

:The audio was probably really bad (lots of hiss and very faint music) because you were using the 1 mil LP needle. The 1 mil needle will fall to the bottom of a 3 mil groove. It will bounce around, mostly missing the music, hitting the surface at the bottom of the groove, usually damaging the groove if the pressure is great. I do not recommend this at all for long term, but if you gently push the tone arm so that the needle rests against one side of the groove or the other, you may improve the sound quality a bit. DO NOT DO THIS REPEATEDLY. The very small needle will damage the groove.
:
:Thomas

6/24/2005 1:43:48 AMThomas Dermody
You won't likely be able to tell the difference between a 1 mil needle and a 3 mil needle unless you compare the two under a microscope. One scratches your finger nail more easily if gently dragged across the nail. If the needle plays LPs with full clarity, and doesn't skate across the record easily, then it's a 1 mil needle. A 3 mil needle will lack high frequency response, since it cannot fit into the small undulations which occur at the low LP speeds. Remember that as a record slows down, the waves in the groove compress. Furthermore, the 3 mil needle cannot fit properly into the 1 mil needle, further diminishing treble response.

I'm pretty sure that the needle you have now is a 1 mil needle. If the phonograph sounded good with your LPs, then there isn't anything likely to be wrong with it. Just refit the needle with a 3 mil gem, and you should greatly improve the sound quality.

Thomas



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