Hello:

I just finished restoring a Sparton Model 580 and would like to make an antenna that can be mounted inside the cabinet.

The radio has standard Broadcast plus 3 shortwave bands.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Gary

You could wind a loop antenna that would take the place of all of the antenna coils. It would have to match their specifications. Doing the math for that is beyond me.

You are better off just stringing a wire across your yard. The antennas are availabe at Radio Shack or www.tubesandmore.com, or even eBay. You'll be happy with the results. Once the wire tarnishes, noone will know it is there. I have even had fair results with running a wire on one side of the roof of my house. It starts low and goes to the peak, and then runs back down to the other end. The antenna can make a horizontal right angle sometimes (run around corner of house), but this can cause wave cancellation. Running a wire all the way around your house will surely cause wave cancellation. If the wire starts running in one direction, and then runs in the opposite direction so that the two are parallel to eachother, reception will be very poor.

Thomas

Thomas,
So a wire in the horizontal plane wound into a square loop under my garage rafters would not make the optimum AM antenna?
marv

:You could wind a loop antenna that would take the place of all of the antenna coils. It would have to match their specifications. Doing the math for that is beyond me.
:
:You are better off just stringing a wire across your yard. The antennas are availabe at Radio Shack or www.tubesandmore.com, or even eBay. You'll be happy with the results. Once the wire tarnishes, noone will know it is there. I have even had fair results with running a wire on one side of the roof of my house. It starts low and goes to the peak, and then runs back down to the other end. The antenna can make a horizontal right angle sometimes (run around corner of house), but this can cause wave cancellation. Running a wire all the way around your house will surely cause wave cancellation. If the wire starts running in one direction, and then runs in the opposite direction so that the two are parallel to eachother, reception will be very poor.
:
:Thomas

Thomas wrote >
:Once the wire tarnishes, noone will know it is there.

And if you want to be even more inconspicuous. Just leave the wire loosely coiled out in your yard someplace until it does tarnish and then string your antenna.

:Hello:
:
:I just finished restoring a Sparton Model 580 and would like to make an antenna that can be mounted inside the cabinet.
:
:The radio has standard Broadcast plus 3 shortwave bands.
:
:Any suggestions?

:Check out http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/8585/loop.html and also do a goggle search on loop antennas. There's lots on the web Nick
:Thanks,
:Gary

::Hello:
::
::I just finished restoring a Sparton Model 580 and would like to make an antenna that can be mounted inside the cabinet.
::
::The radio has standard Broadcast plus 3 shortwave bands.
::
::Any suggestions?

Here's a suggestion: connect the ground terminal as usual (note that a GOOD ground connection is as important as the aerial) and connect the antenna terminal of your set to either side of the telephone line through an 0.01 mfd @ 600v condenser (capacitor to you Young Squirts) The rf pick up of the telephone lines is astounding. The phone line was not often used for an aerial in the 'twenties and 'thirties because of the Bell System prohibition of "foreign equipment", (and also because the standard 151-AL desk stand and A and B type French Phones with their unbypassed dial contacts were a potent source of QRM) But it works quite well. In southern Michigan I am able to reliably receive WBBM Chicago, WLW Cincinnati, and CKLW Windsor on a good CRYSTAL set , and can receive coast to coast with a one tube "blooper" (winter nights, of course). This should certanly do the trick for your Sparton.

::Check out http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/8585/loop.html and also do a goggle search on loop antennas. There's lots on the web Nick
::Thanks,
::Gary

:::Hello:
:::
:::I just finished restoring a Sparton Model 580 and would like to make an antenna that can be mounted inside the cabinet.
:::
:::The radio has standard Broadcast plus 3 shortwave bands.
:::
:::Any suggestions?
:
:Here's a suggestion: connect the ground terminal as usual (note that a GOOD ground connection is as important as the aerial) and connect the antenna terminal of your set to either side of the telephone line through an 0.01 mfd @ 600v condenser (capacitor to you Young Squirts) The rf pick up of the telephone lines is astounding. The phone line was not often used for an aerial in the 'twenties and 'thirties because of the Bell System prohibition of "foreign equipment", (and also because the standard 151-AL desk stand and A and B type French Phones with their unbypassed dial contacts were a potent source of QRM) But it works quite well. In southern Michigan I am able to reliably receive WBBM Chicago, WLW Cincinnati, and CKLW Windsor on a good CRYSTAL set , and can receive coast to coast with a one tube "blooper" (winter nights, of course). This should certanly do the trick for your Sparton.
:
:::Check out http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/8585/loop.html and also do a goggle search on loop antennas. There's lots on the web Nick
:::Thanks,
:::Gary

hello i built a tuned loop ant. all you need is a tuning cap and some wire there are plans on daves loop antenas

First off I want to say WOW about the telephone line idea. That is awesome. I can see a popping sound happening in my radio every time I dial on a rotary, or when the phone rings, but otherwise this sounds fantastic.

As for the loop antenna, yes you can build a single loop with a tuning condenser, but ideally you want different sized loops for the different bands. To do this many companies used a single loop for the broadcast band with successive taps for the short wave bands (using smaller segments of the loop). Each segment, including the entire loop for broadcast, must match the tuning condenser in order to secure maximum sensitivity over the dial.

As for the horizontal plane antenna, yes, running an antenna wire (not loop antenna) in one direction and then in the opposite direction for an equal length will tend to cancel out certain frequencies and make reception poor. The ideal long wire antenna runs in one direction. A V-Doublet runs in one direction from one side of the antenna coil, and in the other direction from the other side of the antenna coil. At any one time, a signal is entering one side of the V doublet and leaving the other side. Right angles are permissable. I have seen articles by Atwater Kent about zig-zagging an antenna wire back and forth on the inside of the roof of a home. This contradicts what I said. Perhaps it works. Perhpas your square antenna in your garage works well, too. What I am saying is simply from personal experience. Every time I have ever run an antenna one way and then continued it in the exact opposite direction, reception has been poor. Now if the two parallel wires were connected together at the same end that goes to the radio, then they'd just be two parallel antennas, and cancellation would not occur. If the two wires basically form a U, however, and the radio connects to one of the tops of the U, waves striking the bottom of the U will create two opposite currents, one in each leg of the U.

A supreme example of how parallel but out of phase wires cancel radio reception is how the twisted lead of a V doublet (or in my case, flat twin lead television wire, because that's what's available to me) does not allow interference into the signal. Both leads are in the same plane, but at any one instant one wire is flowing into the radio and the other is flowing out of the radio. Because of this, the twisted leads may pass points of interference while going into the home, but the interference is cancelled out. What I mean by "at any one point in time a signal flows in one way and out the other" is --during one point in a radio wave, while it is positive or negative. I realize that radio waves are actually alternating current that flows in both directions.

Experiment for yourself and see what you like. What one person has sworn against another has found to be the best answer. It all depends on the situation and flukes of nature. Sometimes things that aren't supposed to work do (like the bumble bee).

Thomas

Another note on phase cancellation in antennas has been added after my original posting below. Also, if you turn a loop antenna horizontally, its effectiveness is minimalized. I should not have made it seem as though loop antennas are an exception, because they are not. I simply meant that I was referring to a long wire antenna. Also, stating that the V Doublet runs in two different directions, they run 180 degrees apart from eachother. They are on the same plane, and since one is connected to one side of the antenna coil and one is connected to the other, that they create currents of opposing phases is actually good. This circuit works much like the push-pull amplifier circuit.

: ( \/ original posting \/ )
:As for the horizontal plane antenna, yes, running an antenna wire (not loop antenna) in one direction and then in the opposite direction for an equal length will tend to cancel out certain frequencies and make reception poor. The ideal long wire antenna runs in one direction. A V-Doublet runs in one direction from one side of the antenna coil, and in the other direction from the other side of the antenna coil. At any one time, a signal is entering one side of the V doublet and leaving the other side. Right angles are permissable. I have seen articles by Atwater Kent about zig-zagging an antenna wire back and forth on the inside of the roof of a home. This contradicts what I said. Perhaps it works. Perhpas your square antenna in your garage works well, too. What I am saying is simply from personal experience. Every time I have ever run an antenna one way and then continued it in the exact opposite direction, reception has been poor. Now if the two parallel wires were connected together at the same end that goes to the radio, then they'd just be two parallel antennas, and cancellation would not occur. If the two wires basically form a U, however, and the radio connects to one of the tops of the U, waves striking the bottom of the U will create two opposite currents, one in each leg of the U.

****Addition: Also, if waves strike the top of the U (horizontal U, same as above) phase cancellation will occur. At any one time, say a radio wave is traveling from the tops of the legs of the U towards its base, current will be induced in the same direction in each leg. Let's say that current is induced so that it flows from the top of each leg to the base of the U, one top being connected to the radio. The leg connected to the radio will be pulling current away from the radio, while the other leg will be pushing current towards the radio, and the two will cancel.
:
:A supreme example of how parallel but out of phase wires cancel radio reception is how the twisted lead of a V doublet (or in my case, flat twin lead television wire, because that's what's available to me) does not allow interference into the signal. Both leads are in the same plane, but at any one instant one wire is flowing into the radio and the other is flowing out of the radio. Because of this, the twisted leads may pass points of interference while going into the home, but the interference is cancelled out. What I mean by "at any one point in time a signal flows in one way and out the other" is --during one point in a radio wave, while it is positive or negative. I realize that radio waves are actually alternating current that flows in both directions.

****Another addition: interference induced into the twisted lead-in wires would actually induce current flowing in the same direction in both wires, since they are both parallel. Since one connects to one side of the antenna coil and one connects to the other, both sides would either be pushing or pulling interference from the coil, and so the interference would cancel out. The radio waves are the only waves that enter one wire and leave another wire of a V-Doublet lead-in.

To better visualize all of this, draw a picture for yourself. If I have thoroughly confused you, I will rewrite all that I have said in one posting. This time I will put the corrections into the posting where they belong and I will omit errors.

Thomas,
Thanks for the disclaimer, but it came too late. Severed my horizontal garage loop. Just a single wire now, with nearly equal lengths of wire, at a 90 degree angle, without completing a loop. I'll give it a try today.
marv

:Another note on phase cancellation in antennas has been added after my original posting below. Also, if you turn a loop antenna horizontally, its effectiveness is minimalized. I should not have made it seem as though loop antennas are an exception, because they are not. I simply meant that I was referring to a long wire antenna. Also, stating that the V Doublet runs in two different directions, they run 180 degrees apart from eachother. They are on the same plane, and since one is connected to one side of the antenna coil and one is connected to the other, that they create currents of opposing phases is actually good. This circuit works much like the push-pull amplifier circuit.
:
:: ( \/ original posting \/ )
::As for the horizontal plane antenna, yes, running an antenna wire (not loop antenna) in one direction and then in the opposite direction for an equal length will tend to cancel out certain frequencies and make reception poor. The ideal long wire antenna runs in one direction. A V-Doublet runs in one direction from one side of the antenna coil, and in the other direction from the other side of the antenna coil. At any one time, a signal is entering one side of the V doublet and leaving the other side. Right angles are permissable. I have seen articles by Atwater Kent about zig-zagging an antenna wire back and forth on the inside of the roof of a home. This contradicts what I said. Perhaps it works. Perhpas your square antenna in your garage works well, too. What I am saying is simply from personal experience. Every time I have ever run an antenna one way and then continued it in the exact opposite direction, reception has been poor. Now if the two parallel wires were connected together at the same end that goes to the radio, then they'd just be two parallel antennas, and cancellation would not occur. If the two wires basically form a U, however, and the radio connects to one of the tops of the U, waves striking the bottom of the U will create two opposite currents, one in each leg of the U.
:
:****Addition: Also, if waves strike the top of the U (horizontal U, same as above) phase cancellation will occur. At any one time, say a radio wave is traveling from the tops of the legs of the U towards its base, current will be induced in the same direction in each leg. Let's say that current is induced so that it flows from the top of each leg to the base of the U, one top being connected to the radio. The leg connected to the radio will be pulling current away from the radio, while the other leg will be pushing current towards the radio, and the two will cancel.
::
::A supreme example of how parallel but out of phase wires cancel radio reception is how the twisted lead of a V doublet (or in my case, flat twin lead television wire, because that's what's available to me) does not allow interference into the signal. Both leads are in the same plane, but at any one instant one wire is flowing into the radio and the other is flowing out of the radio. Because of this, the twisted leads may pass points of interference while going into the home, but the interference is cancelled out. What I mean by "at any one point in time a signal flows in one way and out the other" is --during one point in a radio wave, while it is positive or negative. I realize that radio waves are actually alternating current that flows in both directions.
:
:****Another addition: interference induced into the twisted lead-in wires would actually induce current flowing in the same direction in both wires, since they are both parallel. Since one connects to one side of the antenna coil and one connects to the other, both sides would either be pushing or pulling interference from the coil, and so the interference would cancel out. The radio waves are the only waves that enter one wire and leave another wire of a V-Doublet lead-in.
:
:To better visualize all of this, draw a picture for yourself. If I have thoroughly confused you, I will rewrite all that I have said in one posting. This time I will put the corrections into the posting where they belong and I will omit errors.
:
:

Thomas,
Sorry, no film at 11. Followed your suggestions and found 1 de-energized computer, 3 power strips with de-energized TV, video, game and audio equip attached to be the offenders of AM radio here. Also included a couple of shop lights, 2 screw-in flourescent bulbs and other unknown outside sources. No conclusive data was collected on the looped horizontal plane garage antenna, but results after my mod were acceptable. Day reception (before 6 PM) was compared to night reception (after 6 PM), with far more day stations on the air or the E-layer effect on more local stations.
marv

:Thomas,
:Thanks for the disclaimer, but it came too late. Severed my horizontal garage loop. Just a single wire now, with nearly equal lengths of wire, at a 90 degree angle, without completing a loop. I'll give it a try today.
:marv
:
::Another note on phase cancellation in antennas has been added after my original posting below. Also, if you turn a loop antenna horizontally, its effectiveness is minimalized. I should not have made it seem as though loop antennas are an exception, because they are not. I simply meant that I was referring to a long wire antenna. Also, stating that the V Doublet runs in two different directions, they run 180 degrees apart from eachother. They are on the same plane, and since one is connected to one side of the antenna coil and one is connected to the other, that they create currents of opposing phases is actually good. This circuit works much like the push-pull amplifier circuit.
::
::: ( \/ original posting \/ )
:::As for the horizontal plane antenna, yes, running an antenna wire (not loop antenna) in one direction and then in the opposite direction for an equal length will tend to cancel out certain frequencies and make reception poor. The ideal long wire antenna runs in one direction. A V-Doublet runs in one direction from one side of the antenna coil, and in the other direction from the other side of the antenna coil. At any one time, a signal is entering one side of the V doublet and leaving the other side. Right angles are permissable. I have seen articles by Atwater Kent about zig-zagging an antenna wire back and forth on the inside of the roof of a home. This contradicts what I said. Perhaps it works. Perhpas your square antenna in your garage works well, too. What I am saying is simply from personal experience. Every time I have ever run an antenna one way and then continued it in the exact opposite direction, reception has been poor. Now if the two parallel wires were connected together at the same end that goes to the radio, then they'd just be two parallel antennas, and cancellation would not occur. If the two wires basically form a U, however, and the radio connects to one of the tops of the U, waves striking the bottom of the U will create two opposite currents, one in each leg of the U.
::
::****Addition: Also, if waves strike the top of the U (horizontal U, same as above) phase cancellation will occur. At any one time, say a radio wave is traveling from the tops of the legs of the U towards its base, current will be induced in the same direction in each leg. Let's say that current is induced so that it flows from the top of each leg to the base of the U, one top being connected to the radio. The leg connected to the radio will be pulling current away from the radio, while the other leg will be pushing current towards the radio, and the two will cancel.
:::
:::A supreme example of how parallel but out of phase wires cancel radio reception is how the twisted lead of a V doublet (or in my case, flat twin lead television wire, because that's what's available to me) does not allow interference into the signal. Both leads are in the same plane, but at any one instant one wire is flowing into the radio and the other is flowing out of the radio. Because of this, the twisted leads may pass points of interference while going into the home, but the interference is cancelled out. What I mean by "at any one point in time a signal flows in one way and out the other" is --during one point in a radio wave, while it is positive or negative. I realize that radio waves are actually alternating current that flows in both directions.
::
::****Another addition: interference induced into the twisted lead-in wires would actually induce current flowing in the same direction in both wires, since they are both parallel. Since one connects to one side of the antenna coil and one connects to the other, both sides would either be pushing or pulling interference from the coil, and so the interference would cancel out. The radio waves are the only waves that enter one wire and leave another wire of a V-Doublet lead-in.
::
::To better visualize all of this, draw a picture for yourself. If I have thoroughly confused you, I will rewrite all that I have said in one posting. This time I will put the corrections into the posting where they belong and I will omit errors.
::
::

Gary: Another consideration is to use an "Active Antenna" that covers the broadcast band plus shortwave frequencies. Many models are available on the web for reasonable cost. They have a preselector control to peak the desired frequency and a pre-amp. Most use a small telescoping whip. Some use a battery, and others use a wall-wart power supply. Reception is quite good considering its small size and everything is indoors.
Steve

:Hello:
:
:I just finished restoring a Sparton Model 580 and would like to make an antenna that can be mounted inside the cabinet.
:
:The radio has standard Broadcast plus 3 shortwave bands.
:
:Any suggestions?
:
:Thanks,
:Gary