I see alot of questions about these this month , I too have a collection of players with dead cartridges, I thought about experimenting to repair them, what kind of salt crystal was used at the time or can you convert to a piezo electric? if they can be rebuilt there must be supplies out there to do it ???

Salt crystal bimorphs are piezo electric crystals. Any type of crystal cut the right way (and I forgot what this way is), with two electrodes attached to it, that can be twisted to generate electricity, is a piezo electric crystal. The science of piezo electricity is the study of and experimentation with this strange phenomenon. Your modern day cigarette lighters that use a little static spark (not the old flint ones with the wheel) to light use a piezo electric crystal, though it is not a salt crystal. The snapping of the mechanism jars the crystal and causes it to generate that massive voltage.

I think the type of salt used in those old cartridges is called Rochelle salt. Not sure if that's the correct word. It's something like that. What kind of salt this is? I am clueless. You will find out if you do searches on the internet or read a lot of literature about this type of cartridge (old Astatic and Shure brochures, etc.). You may try converting the cartridges to a different type of piezo electric element, as you talked about trying. That would work, and you wouldn't have to worry about humidity and heat so much. You can also contact www.west-techservices.com and have them rebuild the cartridges for a really small price, considering what they are doing.

Good luck,

Thomas

:I see alot of questions about these this month , I too have a collection of players with dead cartridges, I thought about experimenting to repair them, what kind of salt crystal was used at the time or can you convert to a piezo electric? if they can be rebuilt there must be supplies out there to do it ???

Thomas , I have contacted them and they are inexpensive they only charge 25 bucks , but I thought would be a neat thing to try and see if was possible if you can come up with the proper materials, but that is probably a trade secret....
:Salt crystal bimorphs are piezo electric crystals. Any type of crystal cut the right way (and I forgot what this way is), with two electrodes attached to it, that can be twisted to generate electricity, is a piezo electric crystal. The science of piezo electricity is the study of and experimentation with this strange phenomenon. Your modern day cigarette lighters that use a little static spark (not the old flint ones with the wheel) to light use a piezo electric crystal, though it is not a salt crystal. The snapping of the mechanism jars the crystal and causes it to generate that massive voltage.
:
:I think the type of salt used in those old cartridges is called Rochelle salt. Not sure if that's the correct word. It's something like that. What kind of salt this is? I am clueless. You will find out if you do searches on the internet or read a lot of literature about this type of cartridge (old Astatic and Shure brochures, etc.). You may try converting the cartridges to a different type of piezo electric element, as you talked about trying. That would work, and you wouldn't have to worry about humidity and heat so much. You can also contact www.west-techservices.com and have them rebuild the cartridges for a really small price, considering what they are doing.
:
:Good luck,
:
:Thomas
:
::I see alot of questions about these this month , I too have a collection of players with dead cartridges, I thought about experimenting to repair them, what kind of salt crystal was used at the time or can you convert to a piezo electric? if they can be rebuilt there must be supplies out there to do it ???

When I have the time, I will try to find some literature for you. When you read the literature and after you are thoroughly confused with all the weird stuff they talk about, you probably won't want to try it yourself anymore. You can, though, if you want. There's all this technical stuff that they talk about that makes my head spin because I don't understand crystals anyway. It has to do with cutting the crystals the correct way. Unless you have the proper equipment, it will be next to impossible to perform this anyway. They talk about a crystal having an X, Y, and Z axis and some other stuff, and you have to cut the crystal across this axis and that axis and etcetera. If you just form a flat crystal wafer, it will not work. I guess you expose certain grains of the crystal when you cut it a certain way. Anyway, if you want to fool around with that stuff it would be a fun experiment at any rate, so when I get the time and am able to look through all my books, I'll see what I come up with. I'll see if my scanning program is even capable of transferring pictures to an e-mailable form. I used to use Paperport, which almost noone else has, so noone could download my pictures. Now I have a new program and a new scanner, so hopefully I can simply copy the pictures and put them on an e-mail. The computer is my parents', anyway, and I don't even pretend to be knowledgable about all the aspects of using a computer. We'll see what happens.

It'll be a fun experiment for you at any rate, and if it doesn't work, you can have the cartridges rebuilt by West-Tech. I think it's pretty cool that these new people purchased all of the stuff from that old guy. I think that's what happened at any rate. They don't seem to be thoroughly knowledgable on the subject, but seem to be working with it quite well. Whatever trade secrets he had I guess they were able to obtain, because they seem to know quite a bit about crystal rebuilding, and are able to do the job quite successfully. I can tell, though, that they are still learning all the little secrets. There are some comments that they made on their site that were a little too general considering all the aspects you must look at with all the different cartridges available, but perhaps they just thinned down the technical info for the average reader. It's so wonderful, though, that these people were brave enough to take over his buisness after he passed away, because otherwise it would have been lost for all of us. There aren't many crystal rebuilding places, even across this big continent.

I have an absolutely fascinating book written by G.A. Briggs, called Sound Reproduction. It's amazing because it goes into such technical detail about records and styluses, speakers, sound reproduction, fidelity, and so many other aspects of it all. After reading this book, you will be a master with your phonograph! It is simply unbelievable. I'll have to scan some of the pages, though I don't feel like scanning the whole book. Perhaps I could, and then it could be posted on this site for everyone. Maybe I can find a source. It is no longer in print, though. It's from 1949/1950. It does mention RCA's electron tube cartridge, which is an amazing unit that is actually an electron tube with a moving member that extends into the tube. This member is attached to the needle, and when it is moved, it changes operation of the tube and gives you your audio signal. Sadly, though, there is no mention what-so-ever of Zenith's Cobra system, which I think is a wonder in phonograph reproduction.

Well, we'll see what I come up with. Good luck!

T.

:Thomas , I have contacted them and they are inexpensive they only charge 25 bucks , but I thought would be a neat thing to try and see if was possible if you can come up with the proper materials, but that is probably a trade secret....
::Salt crystal bimorphs are piezo electric crystals. Any type of crystal cut the right way (and I forgot what this way is), with two electrodes attached to it, that can be twisted to generate electricity, is a piezo electric crystal. The science of piezo electricity is the study of and experimentation with this strange phenomenon. Your modern day cigarette lighters that use a little static spark (not the old flint ones with the wheel) to light use a piezo electric crystal, though it is not a salt crystal. The snapping of the mechanism jars the crystal and causes it to generate that massive voltage.
::
::I think the type of salt used in those old cartridges is called Rochelle salt. Not sure if that's the correct word. It's something like that. What kind of salt this is? I am clueless. You will find out if you do searches on the internet or read a lot of literature about this type of cartridge (old Astatic and Shure brochures, etc.). You may try converting the cartridges to a different type of piezo electric element, as you talked about trying. That would work, and you wouldn't have to worry about humidity and heat so much. You can also contact www.west-techservices.com and have them rebuild the cartridges for a really small price, considering what they are doing.
::
::Good luck,
::
::Thomas
::
:::I see alot of questions about these this month , I too have a collection of players with dead cartridges, I thought about experimenting to repair them, what kind of salt crystal was used at the time or can you convert to a piezo electric? if they can be rebuilt there must be supplies out there to do it ???