Hello again. This time I'm wondering about the response and tonal differences between crystal phono cartirdges and ceramic cartidges.

The general impression I've gotten is that (all other things being equal) crystal carts are less reliable and have inferior tone compared to ceramic carts.

It has also been pointed out that crystal carts will fail in extreme temperatures, and that ceramic carts are not susceptable to heat failure.

As a youth in the early 1950's, our family owned an RCA model A-108 console record player that utilized what I believe must have been crystal cartredges (I could be wrong here) and the sound was just fine.
Plenty of bass; rich and warm.

My questions are: (again, all things being equal)

a. are ceramics tonally superior to crystals?
(do ceramics sound better?)
b. is ceramic physically more stable that crystal?
(do ceramics last longer?)

If anybody has answers to these questions or opinions, I'd love to hear about it. And if you have any other relevant info to add to the crystal/ceramic folklore, I'd be glad to hear that too.

I'm pondering having several cartridges 'rebuilt' and I've been offered a choice in materials. But I'm also interested in this subject simply from a historical perspective.

THANK YOU.............

: Hello again. This time I'm wondering about the response and tonal differences between crystal phono cartirdges and ceramic cartidges.

: The general impression I've gotten is that (all other things being equal) crystal carts are less reliable and have inferior tone compared to ceramic carts.

: It has also been pointed out that crystal carts will fail in extreme temperatures, and that ceramic carts are not susceptable to heat failure.

: As a youth in the early 1950's, our family owned an RCA model A-108 console record player that utilized what I believe must have been crystal cartredges (I could be wrong here) and the sound was just fine.
: Plenty of bass; rich and warm.

: My questions are: (again, all things being equal)

: a. are ceramics tonally superior to crystals?
: (do ceramics sound better?)
: b. is ceramic physically more stable that crystal?
: (do ceramics last longer?)

: If anybody has answers to these questions or opinions, I'd love to hear about it. And if you have any other relevant info to add to the crystal/ceramic folklore, I'd be glad to hear that too.

: I'm pondering having several cartridges 'rebuilt' and I've been offered a choice in materials. But I'm also interested in this subject simply from a historical perspective.

: THANK YOU.............

hello again David..
All of the phonos with crystal cartridges that have passed my way were dead, so it's pretty much true they will age to destruction...
as for comparing the two under similar ideal conditions, i'm sure the ceramic will come out the clear winner..
One thing, though, the crystal carts are a LOT more heavy duty.. Those old players were'nt exactly easy on either stylus or record..
as for fidelity, most of that will depend on many variables, such as the type and power of the amplifer, the speaker size, the output tx quality, condition of the components,,, etc, etc...
All these things will conspire to limit it to X,no matter what you do up front..

I've had my crystal carts restored because quite simply from a purist perspective,,,that's what was there,,that's what people listened to,,that's all there is, and wasnt meant to be anything more..besides,
the cheap sound, pops and scratches are what makes it so endearing anyway..!
This is just my opinion, but when i put on a 78, i want it to be the same as it was heard in 1938.., that way, for 3 mins, it's the closest thing to a time machine..

Hi dave p. ~~~
Thanks for your response. I understand what you said and I appreciate it. My situation differs from yours in the sense that, whereas you restored a crystal cart for 1938 78's, I am restoring my little RCA 45 player for 1950's 45's. I know that crystal and ceramic carts from any era do not compare to modern magnetic gear. On the other hand, the tone arm on my player is actually very light and the 'microgrooves' on the 45's are essentially the same grooves that followed for the next 30 years or so.
I like the idea of keeping things original; but I want to squeeze the most fidelity I possibly can outta this baby! *smile*
TTYL.....Dave
PS ~ sorry, I called you Pete in one of my previous posts.. dunno where that came from...bye

: : Hello again. This time I'm wondering about the response and tonal differences between crystal phono cartirdges and ceramic cartidges.

: : The general impression I've gotten is that (all other things being equal) crystal carts are less reliable and have inferior tone compared to ceramic carts.

: : It has also been pointed out that crystal carts will fail in extreme temperatures, and that ceramic carts are not susceptable to heat failure.

: : As a youth in the early 1950's, our family owned an RCA model A-108 console record player that utilized what I believe must have been crystal cartredges (I could be wrong here) and the sound was just fine.

: : Plenty of bass; rich and warm.

: : My questions are: (again, all things being equal)

: : a. are ceramics tonally superior to crystals?

: : (do ceramics sound better?)

: : b. is ceramic physically more stable that crystal?

: : (do ceramics last longer?)

: : If anybody has answers to these questions or opinions, I'd love to hear about it. And if you have any other relevant info to add to the crystal/ceramic folklore, I'd be glad to hear that too.

: : I'm pondering having several cartridges 'rebuilt' and I've been offered a choice in materials. But I'm also interested in this subject simply from a historical perspective.

: : THANK YOU.............

You guys are on the right track. The first RCA 45 players of l949 came out with metal tone arms and crystal cartridges. They would also change a record in less than one second! They "progressed" through the fifties and changed the tone arm to plastic

and incorporated a ceramic cartridge supplied by Sonotone. These cartridges had better frequency response and would track at a lighter weight than the older crystal units. The ceramic is by far the better choice. Beware of attempting to put a magnetic cartridge

in the old RCA 45 players. They had 2 pole motors that produced a fierce magnetic flux field that induced quite a healty hum into

the tracking area of the tone arm. I sold and serviced literally thousands of these units.

Good Luck,

Tom S.

: hello again David..

: All of the phonos with crystal cartridges that have passed my way were dead, so it's pretty much true they will age to destruction...

: as for comparing the two under similar ideal conditions, i'm sure the ceramic will come out the clear winner..

: One thing, though, the crystal carts are a LOT more heavy duty.. Those old players were'nt exactly easy on either stylus or record..

: as for fidelity, most of that will depend on many variables, such as the type and power of the amplifer, the speaker size, the output tx quality, condition of the components,,, etc, etc...

: All these things will conspire to limit it to X,no matter what you do up front..

: I've had my crystal carts restored because quite simply from a purist perspective,,,that's what was there,,that's what people listened to,,that's all there is, and wasnt meant to be anything more..besides,

: the cheap sound, pops and scratches are what makes it so endearing anyway..!

: This is just my opinion, but when i put on a 78, i want it to be the same as it was heard in 1938.., that way, for 3 mins, it's the closest thing to a time machine..

Hi David,
Crystal and Ceramic cartriges utilise the piezo electric effect whereby certain materials distort (move) when a voltage is applied across them and they also produce a voltage when strained (bent). The stylus is attached to a piece of the material and the vibrations from the record produce an output signal. The original material used was natural Quartz Crystal, the same material used in crystals for frequency control in oscillators etc. As you mentioned this material is sensitive to temperature and humidity and man made ceramic piezo materials were developed to replace it. These ceramics are more stable and moisture resistant and can be made with characteristics to suit the application without having to select and cut the natural crystal, a real art form. The resulting cartriges are both capable of good results, it depends on the particular design whether one is better than another. Ceramic are likely to be more modern design, they are all often called "crystal" as a class to separate them from magnetic cartriges. Piezo cartiges are equivalent to a voltage source in series with a small capacitor and their bass response (apart from mechanical design) depends on the load resistance they feed into, they require a high resistance, up to several Meg ohms for full bass. Some crystal/ceramic cartriges have resonances that cause a peaky response, this is because of the particular design, there were some very good versions made. The best HiFi cartriges are all magnetic but these are more expensive to make and need more amplification and equalization. Don Black.
: Hello again. This time I'm wondering about the response and tonal differences between crystal phono cartirdges and ceramic cartidges.

: The general impression I've gotten is that (all other things being equal) crystal carts are less reliable and have inferior tone compared to ceramic carts.

: It has also been pointed out that crystal carts will fail in extreme temperatures, and that ceramic carts are not susceptable to heat failure.

: As a youth in the early 1950's, our family owned an RCA model A-108 console record player that utilized what I believe must have been crystal cartredges (I could be wrong here) and the sound was just fine.
: Plenty of bass; rich and warm.

: My questions are: (again, all things being equal)

: a. are ceramics tonally superior to crystals?
: (do ceramics sound better?)
: b. is ceramic physically more stable that crystal?
: (do ceramics last longer?)

: If anybody has answers to these questions or opinions, I'd love to hear about it. And if you have any other relevant info to add to the crystal/ceramic folklore, I'd be glad to hear that too.

: I'm pondering having several cartridges 'rebuilt' and I've been offered a choice in materials. But I'm also interested in this subject simply from a historical perspective.

: THANK YOU.............

Don ~ thanks for the words...some of which I knew. Most of which I didn't.

Naturally, I don't want a peaky sounding record-player. The gentleman at West Tech Services was not completely clear on what my rebuild options were. He indicated two main things.

1. Any given cartridge might have been manufactured well in one factory, and (!) poorly in another!

2. Any cartridge I send him could be rebuilt with either crystal or ceramic materials.

I have three vintage cartridges and two choices: I can

a. Send all of them to be rebuilt, then test in my player to find the best one. (an expensive proposition) or
select one of the three, send it & hope for the best.

b. Rebuild with crystal or ceramic?? This is tough. All I really want is for my player to sound rich and full
like it did when it was new from RCA.

For anyone reading:
My player is an RCA 45-EY-2 with amp and speaker.
The three cartidges I have are:

RCA 74625 (listed for player 9-EY-32 RP-168)
Astatic 408 (replaces RCA 76318)
Astatic 62-1 (also replaces RCA 76318)
note: RCA 76318 listed for player 6-EY-3A

All three of these cartridges look exactly the same except for the 408 which is bronze colored, not silver.

Thanks again...DAVE

I used to use Astatic cartridges that were crystal. They, as far as I can remember sounded pretty nice, sorta mellow if you will. I know one person who might be able to help you. He sells broadcast equipment and is pretty sharp on cartridges, old and new. His name is George Riggins and he's in Long Beach, CA. His phone number is 1-562-598-7007. I hope he can help you. He's helped me in locating a lot of "stranges".

Burt Weiner, K6OQK

: Don ~ thanks for the words...some of which I knew. Most of which I didn't.

: Naturally, I don't want a peaky sounding record-player. The gentleman at West Tech Services was not completely clear on what my rebuild options were. He indicated two main things.

: 1. Any given cartridge might have been manufactured well in one factory, and (!) poorly in another!

: 2. Any cartridge I send him could be rebuilt with either crystal or ceramic materials.

: I have three vintage cartridges and two choices: I can

: a. Send all of them to be rebuilt, then test in my player to find the best one. (an expensive proposition) or
: select one of the three, send it & hope for the best.

: b. Rebuild with crystal or ceramic?? This is tough. All I really want is for my player to sound rich and full
: like it did when it was new from RCA.

: For anyone reading:
: My player is an RCA 45-EY-2 with amp and speaker.
: The three cartidges I have are:

: RCA 74625 (listed for player 9-EY-32 RP-168)
: Astatic 408 (replaces RCA 76318)
: Astatic 62-1 (also replaces RCA 76318)
: note: RCA 76318 listed for player 6-EY-3A

: All three of these cartridges look exactly the same except for the 408 which is bronze colored, not silver.

: Thanks again...DAVE

: I used to use Astatic cartridges that were crystal. They, as far as I can remember sounded pretty nice, sorta mellow if you will. I know one person who might be able to help you. He sells broadcast equipment and is pretty sharp on cartridges, old and new. His name is George Riggins and he's in Long Beach, CA. His phone number is 1-562-598-7007. I hope he can help you. He's helped me in locating a lot of "stranges".

: Burt Weiner, K6OQK

: : Don ~ thanks for the words...some of which I knew. Most of which I didn't.

: : Naturally, I don't want a peaky sounding record-player. The gentleman at West Tech Services was not completely clear on what my rebuild options were. He indicated two main things.

: : 1. Any given cartridge might have been manufactured well in one factory, and (!) poorly in another!

: : 2. Any cartridge I send him could be rebuilt with either crystal or ceramic materials.

: : I have three vintage cartridges and two choices: I can

: : a. Send all of them to be rebuilt, then test in my player to find the best one. (an expensive proposition) or
: : select one of the three, send it & hope for the best.

: : b. Rebuild with crystal or ceramic?? This is tough. All I really want is for my player to sound rich and full
: : like it did when it was new from RCA.

: : For anyone reading:
: : My player is an RCA 45-EY-2 with amp and speaker.
: : The three cartidges I have are:

: : RCA 74625 (listed for player 9-EY-32 RP-168)
: : Astatic 408 (replaces RCA 76318)
: : Astatic 62-1 (also replaces RCA 76318)
: : note: RCA 76318 listed for player 6-EY-3A

: : All three of these cartridges look exactly the same except for the 408 which is bronze colored, not silver.

: : Thanks again...DAVE

: I used to use Astatic cartridges that were crystal. They, as far as I can remember sounded pretty nice, sorta mellow if you will. I know one person who might be able to help you. He sells broadcast equipment and is pretty sharp on cartridges, old and new. His name is George Riggins and he's in Long Beach, CA. His phone number is 1-562-598-7007. I hope he can help you. He's helped me in locating a lot of "stranges".

: Burt Weiner, K6OQK

: : Don ~ thanks for the words...some of which I knew. Most of which I didn't.

: : Naturally, I don't want a peaky sounding record-player. The gentleman at West Tech Services was not completely clear on what my rebuild options were. He indicated two main things.

: : 1. Any given cartridge might have been manufactured well in one factory, and (!) poorly in another!

: : 2. Any cartridge I send him could be rebuilt with either crystal or ceramic materials.

: : I have three vintage cartridges and two choices: I can

: : a. Send all of them to be rebuilt, then test in my player to find the best one. (an expensive proposition) or
: : select one of the three, send it & hope for the best.

: : b. Rebuild with crystal or ceramic?? This is tough. All I really want is for my player to sound rich and full
: : like it did when it was new from RCA.

: : For anyone reading:
: : My player is an RCA 45-EY-2 with amp and speaker.
: : The three cartidges I have are:

: : RCA 74625 (listed for player 9-EY-32 RP-168)
: : Astatic 408 (replaces RCA 76318)
: : Astatic 62-1 (also replaces RCA 76318)
: : note: RCA 76318 listed for player 6-EY-3A

: : All three of these cartridges look exactly the same except for the 408 which is bronze colored, not silver.

: : Thanks again...DAVE

Hi Friend:
I am eagerly looking for a Crystal or ceramic Phono head. This i use to experiment with EVP using extreeme
sensitive diaphragms as a vibratory element. It will be very much appreciated as to be kind enough to let me know the address where I can obtain one please or if you can sell me one as a second-hand one.

Thanks

Raphael