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Motorola diagnosis
7/2/2014 8:50:03 AMMike
1940s Motorola does not pass signal from 12SK7 if amp to 12SQ7 detector. What are the possible problems? Maybe bad if can? Anything simpler? Model is 61X14. Thanks for your thoughts.
7/2/2014 10:09:54 AMCV
Most likely the IF Transformer that feeds the detector tube is bad. Use an ohmmeter to determine if the primary and secondary windings each have continuity. Most likely failure mode is for the primary winding to open up, since it is the one that couples the IF amp tube's plate to B+.
7/2/2014 10:12:01 AMCV
Above comment assumes that the tubes have been tested and exonerated. Tubes are always the most likely suspects.
7/2/2014 11:30:25 AMEdd






Sir Mike. . . . .





Some additional possibilities:


While ohmming out the IF transformers also check out the cathode resistor and then move on to a powering up of the set
and confirm ~65-85VDC on the plate and screen of the IF amp.


Now, is all of the AF sectino OK ?


Quick check . . . other than the wetted finger to the 1st grid of the 'Q7 is using two jumper wires with their clip ends


and connect a ~.01---.1 ufd cap between pin 7 and 4 of the 'Q7 and gradually run the volume up and be expecting a


progressively louder "HUMMMMMMMMM" up to a threshold of the thorough cleaning of cob webs from the speaker.


That confirmation is a clean bill of health of all of the AF system from the detctor diodes thru to the speaker.



If the IF- RF- Mixer stages had their Bee Pluss-es-es Voltages-es-es being present . . . . then try this.


Give the push buttons M-U-L-T-I-P-L-E workout punches . . . to clean any oxides off its switches and finally leave


in the manual tuning position.


Confirm that your external loop is present and plugged in.


Take one of the . . . now semi retired . . . previous test leads w/ end clips and leave it clipped onto that pin 4 det


plate of the 'Q7 and take its other end and clip to a short length of insulated hook up wire .


That wire end is being bared of insulation, just enough to clip onto and make connection.


The balance of the insulated wire is to be multiple turn wound around the 1st IF transformers BLUE lead wire that routes to the 'SA7 mixer toobie.


(You are accomplishing low picofarads of coupling capacitance with that "gimmick" construction.)


SHOULD you be so fortunate as to actually have a 10-20 or so pf capacitor in stock, use that for direct interconnect.


(I 'm usually catering to a possibility that the requestor of info . . . quasi servicee . . hasn't a pot to pee in . . .figuratively
. . . as per parts availability on hand . . . . or more importantly . .any test equipment. )


Next, use the other unused "jomping -jimminy ! " clip set to short across the primary of the 2nd IF transformer . . . .we
certainly dont wants no interstage "ossifrying"/feed back ocurring there !


NOW . . . .AND NOW . . . . fire up your 'ole At-water-less Kent . .(WANNABE !) . . . and just see if some of your stronger


stations are coming in as you cruise across the dial scale tuning on that ole' Rota-mola !




Standing by . . . . . .






73's de Edd







The first 90 percent of an involved task takes 90 percent of the time, with the last troublesome 10 percent taking the other 90 percent.





:Above comment assumes that the tubes have been tested and exonerated. Tubes are always the most likely suspects.
:

7/10/2014 8:48:34 AMMike
:
:

:
:OK, finally was able to make some checks. I learned that the IF transformer is OK. The cathode resistor is OK. Voltage on the 6sk7 plate is 89 and same on the screen grid. I noticed that the grid is measuring -0. I punched all the buttons several times and cleaned the one for the tuner. I do hear unmodulated whistle-like sounds where I believe stations would be. Still stuck. Any more thoughts are appreciated.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Mike. . . . .
:
:
:
:
:
:Some additional possibilities:
:
:
:While ohmming out the IF transformers also check out the cathode resistor and then move on to a powering up of the set
: and confirm ~65-85VDC on the plate and screen of the IF amp.
:
:
:Now, is all of the AF sectino OK ?
:
:
:Quick check . . . other than the wetted finger to the 1st grid of the 'Q7 is using two jumper wires with their clip ends
:
:
:and connect a ~.01---.1 ufd cap between pin 7 and 4 of the 'Q7 and gradually run the volume up and be expecting a
:
:
:progressively louder "HUMMMMMMMMM" up to a threshold of the thorough cleaning of cob webs from the speaker.
:
:
:That confirmation is a clean bill of health of all of the AF system from the detctor diodes thru to the speaker.
:
:
:
:If the IF- RF- Mixer stages had their Bee Pluss-es-es Voltages-es-es being present . . . . then try this.
:
:
:Give the push buttons M-U-L-T-I-P-L-E workout punches . . . to clean any oxides off its switches and finally leave
:
:
:in the manual tuning position.
:
:
:Confirm that your external loop is present and plugged in.
:
:
:Take one of the . . . now semi retired . . . previous test leads w/ end clips and leave it clipped onto that pin 4 det
:
:
:plate of the 'Q7 and take its other end and clip to a short length of insulated hook up wire .
:
:
:That wire end is being bared of insulation, just enough to clip onto and make connection.
:
:
:The balance of the insulated wire is to be multiple turn wound around the 1st IF transformers BLUE lead wire that routes to the 'SA7 mixer toobie.
:
:
:(You are accomplishing low picofarads of coupling capacitance with that "gimmick" construction.)
:
:
:SHOULD you be so fortunate as to actually have a 10-20 or so pf capacitor in stock, use that for direct interconnect.
:
:
:(I 'm usually catering to a possibility that the requestor of info . . . quasi servicee . . hasn't a pot to pee in . . .figuratively
: . . . as per parts availability on hand . . . . or more importantly . .any test equipment. )
:
:
:Next, use the other unused "jomping -jimminy ! " clip set to short across the primary of the 2nd IF transformer . . . .we
:certainly dont wants no interstage "ossifrying"/feed back ocurring there !
:
:
:NOW . . . .AND NOW . . . . fire up your 'ole At-water-less Kent . .(WANNABE !) . . . and just see if some of your stronger
:
:
:stations are coming in as you cruise across the dial scale tuning on that ole' Rota-mola !
:
:
:
:
:Standing by . . . . . .
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd

:
:
:


:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:The first 90 percent of an involved task takes 90 percent of the time, with the last troublesome 10 percent taking the other 90 percent.
:
:
:
:
::
:

:
:
:
::Above comment assumes that the tubes have been tested and exonerated. Tubes are always the most likely suspects.
::
:
:

7/10/2014 9:07:23 AMMike
::
::

::
::OK, finally was able to make some checks. I learned that the IF transformer is OK. The cathode resistor is OK. Voltage on the 6sk7 plate is 89 and same on the screen grid. I noticed that the grid is measuring -0. I punched all the buttons several times and cleaned the one for the tuner. I do hear unmodulated whistle-like sounds where I believe stations would be. Still stuck. Any more thoughts are appreciated.
::Also: now see that the plate voltage on the 6sq7 seems out of whack. It measures about -50 volts measured against B-.
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Mike. . . . .
::
::
::
::
::
::Some additional possibilities:
::
::
::While ohmming out the IF transformers also check out the cathode resistor and then move on to a powering up of the set
:: and confirm ~65-85VDC on the plate and screen of the IF amp.
::
::
::Now, is all of the AF sectino OK ?
::
::
::Quick check . . . other than the wetted finger to the 1st grid of the 'Q7 is using two jumper wires with their clip ends
::
::
::and connect a ~.01---.1 ufd cap between pin 7 and 4 of the 'Q7 and gradually run the volume up and be expecting a
::
::
::progressively louder "HUMMMMMMMMM" up to a threshold of the thorough cleaning of cob webs from the speaker.
::
::
::That confirmation is a clean bill of health of all of the AF system from the detctor diodes thru to the speaker.
::
::
::
::If the IF- RF- Mixer stages had their Bee Pluss-es-es Voltages-es-es being present . . . . then try this.
::
::
::Give the push buttons M-U-L-T-I-P-L-E workout punches . . . to clean any oxides off its switches and finally leave
::
::
::in the manual tuning position.
::
::
::Confirm that your external loop is present and plugged in.
::
::
::Take one of the . . . now semi retired . . . previous test leads w/ end clips and leave it clipped onto that pin 4 det
::
::
::plate of the 'Q7 and take its other end and clip to a short length of insulated hook up wire .
::
::
::That wire end is being bared of insulation, just enough to clip onto and make connection.
::
::
::The balance of the insulated wire is to be multiple turn wound around the 1st IF transformers BLUE lead wire that routes to the 'SA7 mixer toobie.
::
::
::(You are accomplishing low picofarads of coupling capacitance with that "gimmick" construction.)
::
::
::SHOULD you be so fortunate as to actually have a 10-20 or so pf capacitor in stock, use that for direct interconnect.
::
::
::(I 'm usually catering to a possibility that the requestor of info . . . quasi servicee . . hasn't a pot to pee in . . .figuratively
:: . . . as per parts availability on hand . . . . or more importantly . .any test equipment. )
::
::
::Next, use the other unused "jomping -jimminy ! " clip set to short across the primary of the 2nd IF transformer . . . .we
::certainly dont wants no interstage "ossifrying"/feed back ocurring there !
::
::
::NOW . . . .AND NOW . . . . fire up your 'ole At-water-less Kent . .(WANNABE !) . . . and just see if some of your stronger
::
::
::stations are coming in as you cruise across the dial scale tuning on that ole' Rota-mola !
::
::
::
::
::Standing by . . . . . .
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd

::
::
::


::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::The first 90 percent of an involved task takes 90 percent of the time, with the last troublesome 10 percent taking the other 90 percent.
::
::
::
::
::::
::

::
::
::
:::Above comment assumes that the tubes have been tested and exonerated. Tubes are always the most likely suspects.
:::
::
::
:
:

7/19/2014 3:27:54 PMMike
:
:

:
:
:I hear faint and garbled stations when I make this coupling, Edd. What sort of problem does this suggest?
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Mike. . . . .
:
:
:
:
:
:Some additional possibilities:
:
:
:While ohmming out the IF transformers also check out the cathode resistor and then move on to a powering up of the set
: and confirm ~65-85VDC on the plate and screen of the IF amp.
:
:
:Now, is all of the AF sectino OK ?
:
:
:Quick check . . . other than the wetted finger to the 1st grid of the 'Q7 is using two jumper wires with their clip ends
:
:
:and connect a ~.01---.1 ufd cap between pin 7 and 4 of the 'Q7 and gradually run the volume up and be expecting a
:
:
:progressively louder "HUMMMMMMMMM" up to a threshold of the thorough cleaning of cob webs from the speaker.
:
:
:That confirmation is a clean bill of health of all of the AF system from the detctor diodes thru to the speaker.
:
:
:
:If the IF- RF- Mixer stages had their Bee Pluss-es-es Voltages-es-es being present . . . . then try this.
:
:
:Give the push buttons M-U-L-T-I-P-L-E workout punches . . . to clean any oxides off its switches and finally leave
:
:
:in the manual tuning position.
:
:
:Confirm that your external loop is present and plugged in.
:
:
:Take one of the . . . now semi retired . . . previous test leads w/ end clips and leave it clipped onto that pin 4 det
:
:
:plate of the 'Q7 and take its other end and clip to a short length of insulated hook up wire .
:
:
:That wire end is being bared of insulation, just enough to clip onto and make connection.
:
:
:The balance of the insulated wire is to be multiple turn wound around the 1st IF transformers BLUE lead wire that routes to the 'SA7 mixer toobie.
:
:
:(You are accomplishing low picofarads of coupling capacitance with that "gimmick" construction.)
:
:
:SHOULD you be so fortunate as to actually have a 10-20 or so pf capacitor in stock, use that for direct interconnect.
:
:
:(I 'm usually catering to a possibility that the requestor of info . . . quasi servicee . . hasn't a pot to pee in . . .figuratively
: . . . as per parts availability on hand . . . . or more importantly . .any test equipment. )
:
:
:Next, use the other unused "jomping -jimminy ! " clip set to short across the primary of the 2nd IF transformer . . . .we
:certainly dont wants no interstage "ossifrying"/feed back ocurring there !
:
:
:NOW . . . .AND NOW . . . . fire up your 'ole At-water-less Kent . .(WANNABE !) . . . and just see if some of your stronger
:
:
:stations are coming in as you cruise across the dial scale tuning on that ole' Rota-mola !
:
:
:
:
:Standing by . . . . . .
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd

:
:
:


:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:The first 90 percent of an involved task takes 90 percent of the time, with the last troublesome 10 percent taking the other 90 percent.
:
:
:
:
::
:

:
:
:
::Above comment assumes that the tubes have been tested and exonerated. Tubes are always the most likely suspects.
::
:
:

7/20/2014 3:56:00 AMEdd







Sir Mike. . . . .



I now see that the plate voltage on the 6sq7 seems out of whack.


It measures about -50 volts measured against B-.






AAAAAhhhhhhhh Haaaaaaaa . . . .
With that enlightening info . . . . . me now thinks that you have a bad whack . . possibly even two !


Go back to that 'Q7 And measure it again the same way as before, but follow your measurement by dropping your DC probe tip on down

to the 470K resistor which is supplying that stages B+.


Make measurement on the complete other lead of that resistor to see if has that full ~89 VDC is being present ?


With the wierd voltage being up on its lead that feeds the 'Q7 plate.


If so, then your problem must be the .01 ufd coupling capacitor that feeds from the plate of the 'Q7 to the Firstus Gridamus of the 'L6 GT


AF output tube .


With it probably being very DC leaky.


Clip loose, the lead of the .01 cap that is feeding from the 'Q7 plate close to its solder joint and that should then get the plate voltage back

at the plate of the 'Q7 to then be normal, when doing yet another retesting.


If not, then that 470 K resistor must have opened up or has drifted way on up into the decades of megohms.




Standing by . . . . . .






73's de Edd







Sometimes I text and drive . . . . . now I know that is dangerous . . . . but I just do stupid things when I'm drunk !





::
::

::
::
::I hear faint and garbled stations when I make this coupling, Edd. What sort of problem does this suggest?
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Mike. . . . .
::
::
::
::
::
::Some additional possibilities:
::
::
::While ohmming out the IF transformers also check out the cathode resistor and then move on to a powering up of the set
:: and confirm ~65-85VDC on the plate and screen of the IF amp.
::
::
::Now, is all of the AF sectino OK ?
::
::
::Quick check . . . other than the wetted finger to the 1st grid of the 'Q7 is using two jumper wires with their clip ends
::
::
::and connect a ~.01---.1 ufd cap between pin 7 and 4 of the 'Q7 and gradually run the volume up and be expecting a
::
::
::progressively louder "HUMMMMMMMMM" up to a threshold of the thorough cleaning of cob webs from the speaker.
::
::
::That confirmation is a clean bill of health of all of the AF system from the detctor diodes thru to the speaker.
::
::
::
::If the IF- RF- Mixer stages had their Bee Pluss-es-es Voltages-es-es being present . . . . then try this.
::
::
::Give the push buttons M-U-L-T-I-P-L-E workout punches . . . to clean any oxides off its switches and finally leave
::
::
::in the manual tuning position.
::
::
::Confirm that your external loop is present and plugged in.
::
::
::Take one of the . . . now semi retired . . . previous test leads w/ end clips and leave it clipped onto that pin 4 det
::
::
::plate of the 'Q7 and take its other end and clip to a short length of insulated hook up wire .
::
::
::That wire end is being bared of insulation, just enough to clip onto and make connection.
::
::
::The balance of the insulated wire is to be multiple turn wound around the 1st IF transformers BLUE lead wire that routes to the 'SA7 mixer toobie.
::
::
::(You are accomplishing low picofarads of coupling capacitance with that "gimmick" construction.)
::
::
::SHOULD you be so fortunate as to actually have a 10-20 or so pf capacitor in stock, use that for direct interconnect.
::
::
::(I 'm usually catering to a possibility that the requestor of info . . . quasi servicee . . hasn't a pot to pee in . . .figuratively
:: . . . as per parts availability on hand . . . . or more importantly . .any test equipment. )
::
::
::Next, use the other unused "jomping -jimminy ! " clip set to short across the primary of the 2nd IF transformer . . . .we
::certainly dont wants no interstage "ossifrying"/feed back ocurring there !
::
::
::NOW . . . .AND NOW . . . . fire up your 'ole At-water-less Kent . .(WANNABE !) . . . and just see if some of your stronger
::
::
::stations are coming in as you cruise across the dial scale tuning on that ole' Rota-mola !
::
::
::
::
::Standing by . . . . . .
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd

::
::
::


::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::The first 90 percent of an involved task takes 90 percent of the time, with the last troublesome 10 percent taking the other 90 percent.
::
::
::
::
::::
::

::
::
::
:::Above comment assumes that the tubes have been tested and exonerated. Tubes are always the most likely suspects.
:::
::
::
:
:



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