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Fellow Stone Age Man
6/18/2014 11:48:49 AMDan
While I agree that us old farts had the benefits of hanging out at the radio shop, building Knightkit signal generators, making cap sub boxes etc, tube tech is pretty much "dead" knowledge these days. (Remember staying up at night to tune in distant radio stations, and writing to them to get QSL postcards?) I learned tube theory in college; transistors were just becoming available. However, Mr. Stone Age, libraries don't have much available anymore on tube theory; nobody teaches it, and those knowledgeable of it are a dying (literally) breed. The internet is indeed full of junk info as well, as I'm sure you know. This is why forums like these are a valuable resource, both for newbies and folks like me who forgot a bunch of stuff, and no longer have our college (or tradeschool) textbooks to refer to. Your criticism is akin to scolding my grandkids for not being proficient with a slide rule. . .
6/18/2014 4:14:21 PMStone Age Man
Well, I had decided to give up but this post brings up something that had been referred to in a couple of whiner posts.

The complaint was something to the effect that libraries don't have many books on radio repairs and tubes. That may be true depending on the library but basic engineering knowledge is applicable to any repair or restoration. Ohms law works every time as do the mathematical formulas for impedance. Want to know the impedance of a capacitor at a given frequency? How about an inductor? Or the resonant frequency of a coil and capacitor? How to figure the impedance of an output transformer? It's all there in the books.

Now how about something radio related, like how a superhetrodyne radio works? That too. The principle design of converter, IF, det, af, and audio out is the same for transistor or tube radios. Once you learn the principles you'll be able to apply them to any set. You'll also find information on TRF and regenerative sets. Just look it up.

Now, if you can't get to a real library or find one that has the technical data you want, All this data is available on the internet if you take the time to look for it and then take more time to study and learn it.

Yes some of us did indeed learn some tricks from guys at the local TV shop, but that tended to be more "how" than "why". The real learning always came from books. I found my first "electrical" books in the school library when I was in grade school. Then I looked in all the school and public libraries I came across. I subscribed to electronics hobby magazines. I had almost no tube theory in college, what there was concerned modeling, much the same as the "h" parameters for transistors.

The key idea is reading, studying, and learning. That takes some work. Yes work, but it won't seem like work when it leads to being able to fix anything that comes across your bench.

Now as to being mean to the young folks, the truth is that if they are too lazy to learn then they'll never be any good at this hobby or much of anything else.

A monkey can be taught to change parts until the set works. Hey, if you just change all of them it has to work.

6/18/2014 8:31:49 PMBrianC
All these points made here about the radio hobby will be mute in a few years, once the generation with the iPhones sewn into their right hand takes over as our generation fades. There will be nothing left to repair, since we have moved to the 'throw it away and buy another' phase of quickly obsolete products. The newer generation has no use for an old AM or FM radio. The people designing the new equipment will be the only ones who need to learn the theory behind it's workings. The repair man has gone the way of the milkman.
6/19/2014 12:46:14 PMCV
That's a rather pessimistic view of the human urge to collect... things. The passing of a given technology from the mainstream economy doesn't mandate the generational end of that technology. There are many steam-engine enthusiasts in the world today, long after the last commercial steam engine was sold. Likewise with mechanical timepieces and early gasoline-powered agriculture equipment- as long as someone has an amateur's interest in these complex, mass-produced things, and can acquire by any means the knowledge to support and maintain them, they will linger on in the world, objects of fascination to a select few.

One reason that tube radios still enjoy a relatively high number of devotees is that such a huge number of them were produced in the pre-WW2 decade. The thousands of contemporary electronics hobbyists who value these items enough to conserve and preserve them ensure that they will be around as collector objects for many, many decades to come, even though the first generation of people who bought and used these radios new has long since passed away.

6/19/2014 8:52:23 PMBrianC
Granted, there will be some future interest in old radios mostly due to their styling. I had a young (25 year old) girl buy a non-working early '30's RCA small cathedral off me as a room décor object. No interest in a working one.
I was more responding to StoneAgeMan's comments on how the young generation are too lazy to learn how to fix radios..I feel since the current young generation has no personal history with them and AM/SW broadcasts, they will have no interest in them on any level but possibly as theme room decor. With a desolate AM band, there will be no reason to repair them. I met a young antique dealer recently that had a 1940's console for sale..He wants to convert it to be a large iPod player.
6/20/2014 12:45:01 AMJohn K
:Granted, there will be some future interest in old radios mostly due to their styling. I had a young (25 year old) girl buy a non-working early '30's RCA small cathedral off me as a room décor object. No interest in a working one.
:I was more responding to StoneAgeMan's comments on how the young generation are too lazy to learn how to fix radios..I feel since the current young generation has no personal history with them and AM/SW broadcasts, they will have no interest in them on any level but possibly as theme room decor. With a desolate AM band, there will be no reason to repair them. I met a young antique dealer recently that had a 1940's console for sale..He wants to convert it to be a large iPod player.
:

My son, age 29, has a 1933 Airline radio in his dining room. There is not a single AM station worth listening to in his area. Naturally, he uses the iPod, or get this ... he streams radio into the Airline from his cellphone.

The younger generation appreciates the workmanship and quality of the sound from the big speakers, granted it is mono. No they are not likely to need to learn the theory behind what makes it all work. If it's broke, Dad will fix it. Integrated circuits can't be fixed with a soldering iron.

6/20/2014 10:24:11 AMCH
::Granted, there will be some future interest in old radios mostly due to their styling. I had a young (25 year old) girl buy a non-working early '30's RCA small cathedral off me as a room décor object. No interest in a working one.
::I was more responding to StoneAgeMan's comments on how the young generation are too lazy to learn how to fix radios..I feel since the current young generation has no personal history with them and AM/SW broadcasts, they will have no interest in them on any level but possibly as theme room decor. With a desolate AM band, there will be no reason to repair them. I met a young antique dealer recently that had a 1940's console for sale..He wants to convert it to be a large iPod player.
::
:
:My son, age 29, has a 1933 Airline radio in his dining room. There is not a single AM station worth listening to in his area. Naturally, he uses the iPod, or get this ... he streams radio into the Airline from his cellphone.
:
:The younger generation appreciates the workmanship and quality of the sound from the big speakers, granted it is mono. No they are not likely to need to learn the theory behind what makes it all work. If it's broke, Dad will fix it. Integrated circuits can't be fixed with a soldering iron.

I have a houseful of restored antique radios. My son from Seattle area visited us in SF bay area last Sept. He, both his daughters and his son in law went nuts over the radios. I am giving them seven of them. They will be here in July to truck them up to Seattle area. The interest is still there like steam engines.
CH

6/25/2014 1:29:02 AMTim
:Well, I had decided to give up but this post brings up something that had been referred to in a couple of whiner posts.
:
:The complaint was something to the effect that libraries don't have many books on radio repairs and tubes. That may be true depending on the library but basic engineering knowledge is applicable to any repair or restoration. Ohms law works every time as do the mathematical formulas for impedance. Want to know the impedance of a capacitor at a given frequency? How about an inductor? Or the resonant frequency of a coil and capacitor? How to figure the impedance of an output transformer? It's all there in the books.
:
:Now how about something radio related, like how a superhetrodyne radio works? That too. The principle design of converter, IF, det, af, and audio out is the same for transistor or tube radios. Once you learn the principles you'll be able to apply them to any set. You'll also find information on TRF and regenerative sets. Just look it up.
:
:Now, if you can't get to a real library or find one that has the technical data you want, All this data is available on the internet if you take the time to look for it and then take more time to study and learn it.
:
:Yes some of us did indeed learn some tricks from guys at the local TV shop, but that tended to be more "how" than "why". The real learning always came from books. I found my first "electrical" books in the school library when I was in grade school. Then I looked in all the school and public libraries I came across. I subscribed to electronics hobby magazines. I had almost no tube theory in college, what there was concerned modeling, much the same as the "h" parameters for transistors.
:
:The key idea is reading, studying, and learning. That takes some work. Yes work, but it won't seem like work when it leads to being able to fix anything that comes across your bench.
:
:Now as to being mean to the young folks, the truth is that if they are too lazy to learn then they'll never be any good at this hobby or much of anything else.
:
:A monkey can be taught to change parts until the set works. Hey, if you just change all of them it has to work.
:
:
I dont know why this hasnt been brought up before, but most people including me join a radio club to insure that the investment in money and time wasn't wasted because of ignorance. Not to mention piddling with live chassis's capable of pushing 400 volts. These clubs offer classes on basic radio operation, oscilloscope training, and bestest of all, other people with the same lack of skoolin. In one session I saved many hours of stress, lots of money, and fewer hours meddling with a very fragile and rickety radio that cannot tolerate being handled without breaking something else.


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