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PHILCO 46-480
2/25/2014 3:03:55 PMMarks
Having issues getting stations on FM. AM and SW work great. Recapped except 2 or 3 mica caps. Removed Band switch replaced all resistors and what a pain. Checked continuity on band switch for FM connections and they seemed fine. Tested all cans for coil resistance before restoring unit and they seem correct. I am not sure about the FM signal route through the unit but would think it would pretty much flows the same route as AM except for the FM OSC tank and detector.
At a loss, any help would be much appreciated. I have a signal generator also Micronta af/rf signal tracer along with other test equipment if that would help.
Thank you
2/25/2014 10:48:43 PMBrianC
OMG...Me and another guy on this forum had similar problems with this model radio and a non-working FM circuit back in August. Here is that thread...http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Forums/Messages/083/M0108083.htm
Bottom line is neither of us ever got the FM working on either set AFAIK.
This set is a repairman's nightmare in hell, with a lot of critical components inaccessible in and under the tuning band selector.
I wish you luck...maybe it is something simple for your set, but don't be surprised if things don't work out easily.
2/26/2014 2:02:16 AMCV
FM has a much higher IF frequency than AM so dual-range IF filters are fitted to this radio. Both IF transformer sets are housed in the same can and are switched in and out by the bandswitch. If one of the FM IF transformers is misadjusted or open it will dead-end the FM signal.

Due to the location of all of the IF transformer peaking cap adjustments on the top of the IF cans, it is easy to get confused and detune the AM IF peaking when you really intended to adjust the FM IF filter, and vice-versa. It may help if you block off the unused cap access holes with tape while aligning either band.

I think that an FM signal generator would be very helpful in troubleshooting this set.

2/26/2014 7:00:56 AMDennis Wess
A question I have to ask: Did the FM band function before you started work on the set ? If so, then you must double check everything you did to the schematic. If not, then unfortunately you must troubleshoot step-by-step.
2/26/2014 1:11:06 PMMarks
Thank you all for replying,
Brian I went back and read the old post and seen there is a service manual for it so I am going to get one and hopefully get more info from it then the riders schematic has.

CV I did what you said and marked the holes to make sure I do not mess with the Am alignment, I did not take the cans apart since they seemed to ohm out ok and hoping the mica caps in the cans were ok. So not sure if I need to take the cans apart and replace or not since the AM and SW are working great.

Dennis I did not power it up when I got it since the cord was cut and dry rotted. I just ohm out the coils and started a restore. So not sure what if anything was working.

I replaced just about everything under the band switch and replaced the 7f8 socket also. In fact I have pulled the band switch twice. I'll get the service manual and go through it all again.

Thank you all for your help.


:Having issues getting stations on FM. AM and SW work great. Recapped except 2 or 3 mica caps. Removed Band switch replaced all resistors and what a pain. Checked continuity on band switch for FM connections and they seemed fine. Tested all cans for coil resistance before restoring unit and they seem correct. I am not sure about the FM signal route through the unit but would think it would pretty much flows the same route as AM except for the FM OSC tank and detector.
:At a loss, any help would be much appreciated. I have a signal generator also Micronta af/rf signal tracer along with other test equipment if that would help.
:Thank you
:

2/26/2014 7:14:33 PMBrianC
Good luck!...Let us know what you find if you ever get it working on FM.
2/27/2014 7:57:19 AMMarks
Well do, I have the service manual on the way so hopefully it will have the magic answer.

:Good luck!...Let us know what you find if you ever get it working on FM.
:

3/6/2014 1:48:51 PMMarkS
Still trying to get the FM working. I removed IF T6/T5 and it ohmed out ok. Question is can the mica cap values be a little off or do they need to be the correct value. One of them is a 1200 pico and I have a 1220 pico. Another is an 18 pico and I have a 20 pico.
Thank you,
Mark


:Thank you all for replying,
:Brian I went back and read the old post and seen there is a service manual for it so I am going to get one and hopefully get more info from it then the riders schematic has.
:
:CV I did what you said and marked the holes to make sure I do not mess with the Am alignment, I did not take the cans apart since they seemed to ohm out ok and hoping the mica caps in the cans were ok. So not sure if I need to take the cans apart and replace or not since the AM and SW are working great.
:
:Dennis I did not power it up when I got it since the cord was cut and dry rotted. I just ohm out the coils and started a restore. So not sure what if anything was working.
:
:I replaced just about everything under the band switch and replaced the 7f8 socket also. In fact I have pulled the band switch twice. I'll get the service manual and go through it all again.
:
:Thank you all for your help.
:
:
:
:
:
:
::Having issues getting stations on FM. AM and SW work great. Recapped except 2 or 3 mica caps. Removed Band switch replaced all resistors and what a pain. Checked continuity on band switch for FM connections and they seemed fine. Tested all cans for coil resistance before restoring unit and they seem correct. I am not sure about the FM signal route through the unit but would think it would pretty much flows the same route as AM except for the FM OSC tank and detector.
::At a loss, any help would be much appreciated. I have a signal generator also Micronta af/rf signal tracer along with other test equipment if that would help.
::Thank you
::
:
:

3/6/2014 4:02:43 PMCV
Generally if cap values are within 10%, the circuit will work fine. Caps used in resonant circuits as is your 18pf cap will need to be "re-tuned" to their coils via the padder cap, but a 20 pF should work there, as well. You will just need to peak up the tuning after you change out the cap, following the IF alignment procedure.

3/6/2014 4:32:30 PMMarkS

Thank you CV, Do you think that a problem with the FM can be in one of the IF? Before I remove the other two. I pretty much check the rest of the unit and works on AM but with my signal generator set to 95mc and the radio tuned to that station I am not getting any tone out. I'm using an eico 324 and I know it is working.

:Generally if cap values are within 10%, the circuit will work fine. Caps used in resonant circuits as is your 18pf cap will need to be "re-tuned" to their coils via the padder cap, but a 20 pF should work there, as well. You will just need to peak up the tuning after you change out the cap, following the IF alignment procedure.
:
:

3/6/2014 6:05:44 PMCV
You will need an FM sig gen to get an audio tone out of the FM section of the radio. Don't think that an EICO 324 has this capability- it is AM only.
3/17/2014 12:09:09 PMMarkS
Ok the FM is now working, I guess someone worked on this and switched the shielded cables going to the 6h6 tube. I switched them and still rcvd nothing but after playing with the fm coils I now have FM radio stations.

I picked up an FM signal generator but the issue I am having is the Alignment said to put a DC meter across the 5MF cap going to pin 3 of the 6h6 tube and adjust for maximum on c31,c30 etc. and approximately 25v to set c32. When I place the meter across I get 0v. If I read from one side or the other the voltage is the same.

All help very much appreciated,
Mark


:Having issues getting stations on FM. AM and SW work great. Recapped except 2 or 3 mica caps. Removed Band switch replaced all resistors and what a pain. Checked continuity on band switch for FM connections and they seemed fine. Tested all cans for coil resistance before restoring unit and they seem correct. I am not sure about the FM signal route through the unit but would think it would pretty much flows the same route as AM except for the FM OSC tank and detector.
:At a loss, any help would be much appreciated. I have a signal generator also Micronta af/rf signal tracer along with other test equipment if that would help.
:Thank you
:

3/17/2014 8:21:55 PMCV
::I picked up an FM signal generator but the issue I am having is the Alignment said to put a DC meter across the 5MF cap going to pin 3 of the 6h6 tube and adjust for maximum on c31,c30 etc. and approximately 25v to set c32. When I place the meter across I get 0v. If I read from one side or the other the voltage is the same.

Are you using a Vacuum Tube Voltmeter (VTVM), as the alignment procedure specifies? An ordinary DC voltmeter has probably too low an impedance to be usable.



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