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WURLITZER JUKE BOX PROBS
9/30/2013 8:18:04 PMALLAN
I HAVE A 1940/41 WURLITZER JUKE BOX, MODEL 750E, PLAYS 78RPM RECORDS. THIS MACHINE PLAYS CONTINUOUSLY; PLAYS A DIFFERENT SELECTION EACH TIME, BUT NEVER SHUTS OFF; HAVE TO UN-PLUG; DID WORK AT ONE TIME. I HAVE A MANUAL, BUT IS CONFUSING IN THAT AREA.
ANY IDEAS WILL BE APPRECIATED.
10/1/2013 7:04:30 AMCV
I'm not familiar with this model but what you've described seems like it could be a selectable mode- if you wanted the machine to run continuously at a dance, for example, versus one play for a nickel (or whatever). This selector switch, if it exists, is probably inside the unit where it can only be accessed by the owner, not a customer. The manual should discuss it.


10/1/2013 11:45:25 AMALLAN
THANK YOU CV,
I WILL LOOK FOR THAT SWITCH; THE MANUAL DOES NOT DISCUSS A NORMAL CONTINUOUS OPERATION AND THEREFORE I THINK IT MAY BE A MAL-FUNCTION OF SORTS.
ANY OTHER IDEAS APPRECIATED.
:
:
:

10/1/2013 4:58:45 PMEdd










Sir ALLAN . . . . .




First off, before anyone gets off on you . . . . for your all caps usage . . . . typing format . . . . and chastises you for "SHOUTING" or "FLAMING", let them know that there ARE certain people that initially had their first military typing " learning experience " on a old model 15 of
the Teletype Corp or der inveterate Kleinschmidtttttttttttttt Models TT-4 or TT-76's.


On those units , there were NO " #%$!!!ing " lower case letters . . . . . only CAPS and then, having bare minimal punctuation coverage.

Therefore, with time, you develop on up to your flaming 100 wpm speed.



Now . . . .. you got answers? . . . . I've got questions.


Most informative initially, was your :



THIS MACHINE PLAYS CONTINUOUSLY; PLAYS A DIFFERENT SELECTION EACH TIME




With an option of up to 24 selections, have you checked to see, and I certainly believe, that it is just cycling over JUST all of your previous songs that you had " PUNCHED IN " to play.


Therefore ALL of the units records are not being played in a continous giant repeating cycle, just repeating THOSE specific "preselected" ones..


Now, I don't know just how much you know about "Fertilizer" jukes, and possibly your BEING familiar only with the audio amp, phono cartridge and the units sound aspects.


Heres a quick cumulative rundown from the time right until the nickel ( 5-10-25 cent piece) hits the slot . . . . 'cause youse . . . . " got to get something that's really hot."


Initially the coin chute dumps into the coin selector mechanism where it precisely evaluates coins for their weight, thickness, magnetic susceptibility and a final overall diameter check, to then channel into one of 3 final thin chutes to roll down to, and finally brush across one of three leaf switches to do a solenoid activation of a latching relay.


(See the two "Fertilizer" photos below of the round "Sawtooth" discs, specific to that design of latching relay.)


That type of relay is functioning as the mechanical "credit memory" for the coins that were inserted. A nickel ratchets the relay one step, a dime, twice, and a solid quahtah ratchets it 5 steps.
As record selections are punched off, the relay backsteps sawteeth until all of that previous changes "credit" is used up.


When you press a specific record play button, its switching voltage is being routed to that records specific coil on a selector assembly where it "pulls a pin" on that selector assembly cluster.


That, or any " pulled pin ", then starts up the machine mechanics on a roll to seek out and find and play that selected record.


Over in the selector mechanism portion, it is intelligently doing a fixed sequence search to find that " pulled pin", there is also like mechanics linked to the tray selector for moving up and down between the records stored in their stacked trays.


When the pulled pin is found the mechanism stops its search and then starts a play cycle where that properly selected record starts a swing over in its platter to accept the rising turntable and then play the record. At the end of the record, the lead out groove of the record is then triggering the systems EOR switch and the system turntable drops down and lowers that record into its storage area tray and swings both back to the storage area.


There is also the moving of that records selector "pin" to its disengaged / dormant position and the whole mechanism stops . . . OR . . . it goes on its search, to find any other pulled pins, to stop and play those records.


So o o o o o when all of your play credit is used up and all of the selections have been played and their respective selector pins moved to their off positions, the playing should stop.


Suuuuuure seems like you should now be plugging in the machine and letting it play each selection and logging them in and "speed" playing them by lifting the tone arm up and over to the lead out groove OR by using the systems reject button.


See how many record selections are ACTUALLY being involved and then physically examine the selector unit.

( NO, its NOT that large vertical selection "thermometer" at the rear of the unit).


That unit is showing how many times a selection /favorite has been played.


You will recognize the selector unit by its huge number of coils . . . . one for each record position.Then use a bright light to find the involved pins "in-out" positions / conditions.


On a " Seeburger ", of which I am 1000% more familiar with, you can merely use your fingers to mechanically reposition pins to either their Activated (pulled) /or / Deactivated positions.


Once you get all of the "Fertilizer's" " pins " to their deactivated positions, with no playing then, you play yourself one song and investigate
why and if the pin is not deactivated at the end of that song.


Thassssit . . . .


Awaiting your feedback . . . . . .


"Fertilizer" electro/mechanics photos :










73's de Edd




If having dogs has taught me anything, it's to eat my cookies VERY-VERY
quietly.











:THANK YOU CV,
:I WILL LOOK FOR THAT SWITCH; THE MANUAL DOES NOT DISCUSS A NORMAL CONTINUOUS OPERATION AND THEREFORE I THINK IT MAY BE A MAL-FUNCTION OF SORTS.
:ANY OTHER IDEAS APPRECIATED.
::
::
::
:
:

10/2/2013 11:10:13 AMBill G.
Hi Edd,
You're totally amazing! You really outdid yourself with this one.
Photos of where the problem is! Wow.

Best regards,

Bill Grimm

10/10/2013 1:54:53 PMALLAN AGAIN
:Hi Bill and CV,
Thank you very much, CV, for your very detailed analysis for this Juke-Box; am getting a better understanding of the mechanism. The instrument still continues to make a selection at random and plays on; never shuts off. the selection & registering, canceling ckts. and accumulator mechanism seem to be functioning ok. Note: With all selector rods in off position, the rotating arm is still activated and stops at a random point on the drum,then plays again. Am wondering if we can pin-point prob. from this info. This unit has a plug in magazine switch and am not how it plays into the operation; have unplugged it and prob. persist.
:Thanks for your help, Allan

10/10/2013 4:15:05 PMBrianC
10/12/2013 10:44:31 AMBill G.
::Hi Bill and CV,
:Thank you very much, CV, for your very detailed analysis for this Juke-Box; am getting a better understanding of the mechanism. The instrument still continues to make a selection at random and plays on; never shuts off. the selection & registering, canceling ckts. and accumulator mechanism seem to be functioning ok. Note: With all selector rods in off position, the rotating arm is still activated and stops at a random point on the drum,then plays again. Am wondering if we can pin-point prob. from this info. This unit has a plug in magazine switch and am not how it plays into the operation; have unplugged it and prob. persist.
::Thanks for your help, Allan
:
:
Hi Allen,
I am glad to see you are back at it.
When I was a kid I had one of these. At one point I recall it did this. I am trying to remember back 40 years, but I think it had to do with a cam going too far and it had to be readjusted.

Best regards,

Bill Grimm

10/12/2013 1:43:32 PMEdd













Sir Allan . . . . .


O.K so you finally got back . . . . should you have activated your E-mail addee . . . . . I could have prompted you of my earlier add on .


Since I didn't perceive of CV to have introduced into any involved comment, along with your now having slightly ? spot checked the mentioned functions I touched upon.

Plus you initially said that you ALREADY had its manual.


Now Try This . . . just being in the respect of 1 picture being worth 10,000 words / keystrokes, I'm just gonna' give you 'lebenteen googillions.


I believe that the rote mechanical aspects of your 'ole Fertilizer 750 "grandfather" were basically carried forward thru the infamous "1015" "sons" series just a few years later.


This is some info for you to now look at:

Video Referencing:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htbN7-vxUbg



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM5bA6c7mQo



If you went thru my procedure and confirmed all pins being reset and remaining in their non activated position, then the playing of a single song and seeing if it
played and then cancelled itself at the end of the record.


If it did not stop after playing, next confirm the master cycle switch at the back side of the of the heart shaped cam / starwheel assembly. If its drive rod mechanics has potentially
loosened up with time, and that switch may not QUITE be de-activating to shut down the mechanism.

Thassit . . . .



73's de Edd





I asked my friend “How do you abbreviate Arkansas” ?


He suggested “I don’t know, just start spelling it, and then quit”.








:::Hi Bill and CV,
::Thank you very much, CV, for your very detailed analysis for this Juke-Box; am getting a better understanding of the mechanism. The instrument still continues to make a selection at random and plays on; never shuts off. the selection & registering, canceling ckts. and accumulator mechanism seem to be functioning ok. Note: With all selector rods in off position, the rotating arm is still activated and stops at a random point on the drum,then plays again. Am wondering if we can pin-point prob. from this info. This unit has a plug in magazine switch and am not how it plays into the operation; have unplugged it and prob. persist.
:::Thanks for your help, Allan
::
::
:Hi Allen,
: I am glad to see you are back at it.
: When I was a kid I had one of these. At one point I recall it did this. I am trying to remember back 40 years, but I think it had to do with a cam going too far and it had to be readjusted.
:
:Best regards,
:
:Bill Grimm
:

2/9/2014 1:04:40 PMALLAN AGAIN
:Hello all who responded months ago; I am back at it again after letting the Wurl. sit for the holidays. I found a frozen pivot shaft on the magazine assy, which prevented it from unlatching the accumulator. Now the machine will shut off after last record, but shuts off with tone arm still on record and record still up; starts up again ok. Tone arm does engage the trip wire and unlatches the trip catch, then shuts off. All cams look to be good and secure. Any ideas appreciated. Allan

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:Sir Allan . . . . .
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::
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:
:
:
:
:
:O.K so you finally got back . . . . should you have activated your E-mail addee . . . . . I could have prompted you of my earlier add on .
:
:
:Since I didn't perceive of CV to have introduced into any involved comment, along with your now having slightly ? spot checked the mentioned functions I touched upon.
:
:Plus you initially said that you ALREADY had its manual.
:
:
:Now Try This . . . just being in the respect of 1 picture being worth 10,000 words / keystrokes, I'm just gonna' give you 'lebenteen googillions.
:
:
:I believe that the rote mechanical aspects of your 'ole Fertilizer 750 "grandfather" were basically carried forward thru the infamous "1015" "sons" series just a few years later.
:
:
:This is some info for you to now look at:
:
:
:
:Video Referencing:
:
:
:
:
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htbN7-vxUbg
:
:
:
:
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM5bA6c7mQo
:
:
:
:
:
:If you went thru my procedure and confirmed all pins being reset and remaining in their non activated position, then the playing of a single song and seeing if it
: played and then cancelled itself at the end of the record.
:
:
: If it did not stop after playing, next confirm the master cycle switch at the back side of the of the heart shaped cam / starwheel assembly. If its drive rod mechanics has potentially
: loosened up with time, and that switch may not QUITE be de-activating to shut down the mechanism.
:
:
:
:Thassit . . . .
:
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:73's de Edd

:
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:
:
:I asked my friend “How do you abbreviate Arkansas” ?
:
:
:He suggested “I don’t know, just start spelling it, and then quit”.
:
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:
:
:
:
:
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::::Hi Bill and CV,
:::Thank you very much, CV, for your very detailed analysis for this Juke-Box; am getting a better understanding of the mechanism. The instrument still continues to make a selection at random and plays on; never shuts off. the selection & registering, canceling ckts. and accumulator mechanism seem to be functioning ok. Note: With all selector rods in off position, the rotating arm is still activated and stops at a random point on the drum,then plays again. Am wondering if we can pin-point prob. from this info. This unit has a plug in magazine switch and am not how it plays into the operation; have unplugged it and prob. persist.
::::Thanks for your help, Allan
:::
:::
::Hi Allen,
:: I am glad to see you are back at it.
:: When I was a kid I had one of these. At one point I recall it did this. I am trying to remember back 40 years, but I think it had to do with a cam going too far and it had to be readjusted.
::
::Best regards,
::
::Bill Grimm
::
:
:



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