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Fonovox FM Alignment
2/5/2013 2:18:12 PMJohnny
I'm asking everyone else so I might as well ask the experts here too.

I'm trying to perform an alignment of the FM on a Fonovox 7060. It says on the alignment procedure to set the dial at the "Point of non-interference". What does that mean?

And when it says to "Adjust A18 for "maximum deflection" well, I'm working with a negative voltage. I can adjust A18 from a -5Vdc all the way to about -13.5Vdc and if I go beyond that point I start bringing the voltage back to a higher neg voltage of -5Vdc. So is the -13.5Vdc the maximum deflection?

Thanks folks,
Johnny

2/5/2013 2:28:51 PMWarren
FM can be a little funny when doing alignment. The Non-Interference point means a dead spot on the FM dial. This is so you don't get interference from Frequency modulation. The Maximum deflection is Referring to your swing meter. (VTVM) The most voltage.

2/5/2013 3:44:18 PMJohnny
:FM can be a little funny when doing alignment. The Non-Interference point means a dead spot on the FM dial. This is so you don't get interference from Frequency modulation. The Maximum deflection is Referring to your swing meter. (VTVM) The most voltage.
:
:Okay with no dipole hooked up the whole dial is dead so that cures that. And you mean that if I have a maximum negative voltage of -13.5Vdc, that's where I want to be. Correct?

Johnny

2/5/2013 4:14:38 PMWarren
Yes. Even when doing an alignment on an AM radio, you could use the AVC line for the maximum negative voltage.
2/5/2013 5:53:38 PMJohnny
:Yes. Even when doing an alignment on an AM radio, you could use the AVC line for the maximum negative voltage.
:
:AM is aligned and working great. Thanks for the FM knowledge Warren!

Johnny

2/7/2013 10:32:40 AMJohnny
:Yes. Even when doing an alignment on an AM radio, you could use the AVC line for the maximum negative voltage.
:
:Well I've got bigger fish to fry now. FM alignment was going fine until this. One of the adjustments (coil with a dual slug in it that adjusts from top and bottom of the radio) is broken. I think. I just know that one end won't turn with what I consider enough torque. Any more and something will break. When I pull my screwdriver out of the hole there's little shavings of some kind of magnetic material on it or my small tool is magnetized but it's definitely metal shavings.

Are these coils available anywhere? And I'm sure there's got to be some kind of spec to order it by. They all can't be the same. I do know that it's a 10.7mHz coil by the paperwork.

Johnny

2/7/2013 12:32:03 PMWarren
First of all do not use a metal tool. By doing so the tool itself becomes part of the ferrite slug. This makes an error in the alignment. Use the plastic hex tool of plastic tip screw driver. The ferrite is powder iron. Your tool may be magnetic. See if you tool can pick up a small screw. A stuck slug sometimes can be freed with a little heat from a hair dryer. Of a shot of freeze mist. Be sure the slug is dry from the freeze mist be doing the alignment.
2/7/2013 12:36:53 PMWarren / PS
The slug can be replaced from another old IF can. Or leave it as is it's most likely very close in tune anyway. But do use plastic tools ! You are making a false alignment with a metal tool.
2/7/2013 2:36:35 PMJohnny
:The slug can be replaced from another old IF can. Or leave it as is it's most likely very close in tune anyway. But do use plastic tools ! You are making a false alignment with a metal tool.
:
:Yeah I've got plastic tools but they wouldn't turn this thing so I tried to get more torque on it with a small screwdriver to free it. All of the sealed wax has been tampered with on these adjustments so I know someone has fooled around in there. Only a few of the slugs are still sealed and those I won't touch.

This one that's stuck is not in spec. Alignment procedure has me adjust it for 0 volts. Supposedly I can turn it and see the voltage change from +V to -V and right now it's stuck at +2.5Vdc so I need to get it to 0 volts.

Johnny

2/7/2013 2:38:24 PMJohnny P.S.
::The slug can be replaced from another old IF can. Or leave it as is it's most likely very close in tune anyway. But do use plastic tools ! You are making a false alignment with a metal tool.
::
::Yeah I've got plastic tools but they wouldn't turn this thing so I tried to get more torque on it with a small screwdriver to free it. All of the sealed wax has been tampered with on these adjustments so I know someone has fooled around in there. Only a few of the slugs are still sealed and those I won't touch.
:
:This one that's stuck is not in spec. Alignment procedure has me adjust it for 0 volts. Supposedly I can turn it and see the voltage change from +V to -V and right now it's stuck at +2.5Vdc so I need to get it to 0 volts.
:
:Johnny
:
:P.S. What is "freeze mist" and where do I get it?
2/7/2013 2:54:30 PMWarren
Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.

2/7/2013 4:21:28 PMJohnny
:Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
:
:Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.

A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.

Johnny

Johnny

2/7/2013 4:51:00 PMEdd
::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
::
::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
:
:A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
:
:Johnny
:
:Johnny
:









Sir Johnny . . . .


Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.


REFERENCING:




http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm


Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm



Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.


With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.

That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.


With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !


A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.


What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.


In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.


The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .


The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".


Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.


A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.


If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.


I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.


If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.


If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.


This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.


And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.


Thassittt . . .


73's de Edd




The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.








2/7/2013 5:48:16 PMEdd . . .deux
:::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
:::
:::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
::
::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
::
::Johnny
::
::Johnny
::
:
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Johnny . . . .
:
:
:Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
:
:
:REFERENCING:
:
:
:
:
:http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
:
:
:
:http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
:
:
:With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
:SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
:
:
:
:That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
:
:
:With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
:
:
:A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
:
:
:What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
:
:
:
:
:In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
:
:
:The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
:
:
:The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
:
:
:Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
:
:
:A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
:
:
:If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
:
:
:I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
:
:
:If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
:
:
:If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
:
:
:This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
:
:
:And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
:
:
:Thassittt . . .
:
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd
:
:
:
:
:
:The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:
html>








Sir Johnny . . . .

ADDENDA:

Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.


The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.


Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?


Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?


A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.


Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.

At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.


Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.




This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.


This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.

It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.


To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)


73's de Edd




Budget: A method for going broke methodically.








2/7/2013 8:34:50 PMJohnny


::::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
::::
::::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
:::
:::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
:::
:::Johnny
:::
:::Johnny
:::
::
::

::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Johnny . . . .
::
::
::Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
::
::
::REFERENCING:
::
::
::
::
::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
::
::
::
::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
::
::
::With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
::SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
::
::
::
::That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
::
::
::With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
::
::
::A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
::
::
::What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
::
::
::
::
::In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
::
::
::The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
::
::
::The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
::
::
::Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
::
::
::A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
::
::
::If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
::
::
::I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
::
::
::If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
::
::
::If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
::
::
::This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
::
::
::And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
::
::
::Thassittt . . .
::
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd
::
::
::
::
::
::The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::

::
::
::
:html>
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Johnny . . . .
:
:
:
:ADDENDA:
:
:
:
:Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.
:
:
:Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
:NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?
:
:
:Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?
:
:
:A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.
:
:
:Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.
:
:
:
:At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.
:
:
:Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
:AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.
:
:
:
:
:This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.
:
:It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.
:
:
:To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)
:
:
:73's de Edd
:
:
:
:
:
:Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:
: Absolutely the same radio Edd. Been a bear but I'm getting there.

C3 has been replaced with a new cap. Along with a bunck of others.

You're also correct on the 3/4 crappy sound.

The slug is of the molded threaded powered iron composition with a rectangular slot in it for adjustment. I tried the heat and mist idea but not a budge. Here's a pic of my set.

Johnny

2/8/2013 12:58:29 AMWarren
It's your lucky day Johnny. I just happen to have a Kuba Arosa parts radio. It has the exact match duel IF can assembly. Best of all you can have it Free. Just pay shipping. I can remove this part over the weekend for you. Get it to UPS Monday.
2/8/2013 10:23:23 AMWarren / PS
If you post your E-Mail address I can send you a picture of this IF can with the top removed like yours. My address is posted in this reply.
2/8/2013 10:45:34 AMJohnny
:If you post your E-Mail address I can send you a picture of this IF can with the top removed like yours. My address is posted in this reply.
:
:Email sent Warren. Thanks!

Johnny

2/15/2013 3:09:43 PMJohnny
I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts. Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.

I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem. I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3. Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem. May be wrong.

So lets talk antennas. I'm hooked up to my home made dipole in the attic above my shop. Works great for all other FM radios and without it this set gets nothing. I've heard it mentioned that these radios are sensitive to their own foil antenna in the cabinet and won't work correctly with anything else.

So I don't know where to go frm here except to haul it upstairs to the room where its cabinet is. Just don't think that's the problem.

Ideas?

Johnny

2/8/2013 7:22:02 PMJohnny
:Wanted to say thanks Edd. Warren sent me a picture of a can that is a perfect match. But stay tuned. I still have a ways to go.

Johnny

::::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
::::
::::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
:::
:::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
:::
:::Johnny
:::
:::Johnny
:::
::
::

::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Johnny . . . .
::
::
::Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
::
::
::REFERENCING:
::
::
::
::
::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
::
::
::
::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
::
::
::With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
::SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
::
::
::
::That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
::
::
::With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
::
::
::A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
::
::
::What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
::
::
::
::
::In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
::
::
::The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
::
::
::The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
::
::
::Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
::
::
::A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
::
::
::If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
::
::
::I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
::
::
::If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
::
::
::If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
::
::
::This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
::
::
::And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
::
::
::Thassittt . . .
::
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd
::
::
::
::
::
::The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::

::
::
::
:html>
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Johnny . . . .
:
:
:
:ADDENDA:
:
:
:
:Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.
:
:
:Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
:NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?
:
:
:Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?
:
:
:A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.
:
:
:Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.
:
:
:
:At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.
:
:
:Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
:AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.
:
:
:
:
:This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.
:
:It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.
:
:
:To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)
:
:
:73's de Edd
:
:
:
:
:
:Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:

2/9/2013 11:25:36 AMEdd
::Wanted to say thanks Edd. Warren sent me a picture of a can that is a perfect match. But stay tuned. I still have a ways to go.
:
:Johnny
:
:
:
:::::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
:::::
:::::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
::::
::::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
::::
::::Johnny
::::
::::Johnny
::::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Sir Johnny . . . .
:::
:::
:::Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
:::
:::
:::REFERENCING:
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
:::
:::
:::
:::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
:::
:::
:::With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
:::SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
:::
:::
:::
:::That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
:::
:::
:::With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
:::
:::
:::A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
:::
:::
:::What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
:::
:::
:::The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
:::
:::
:::The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
:::
:::
:::Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
:::
:::
:::A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
:::
:::
:::If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
:::
:::
:::I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
:::
:::
:::If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
:::
:::
:::If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
:::
:::
:::This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
:::
:::
:::And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
:::
:::
:::Thassittt . . .
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::73's de Edd
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::
::html>
::

::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Johnny . . . .
::
::
::
::ADDENDA:
::
::
::
::Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.
::
::
::Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
::NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?
::
::
::Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?
::
::
::A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.
::
::
::Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.
::
::
::
::At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.
::
::
::Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
::AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.
::
::
::
::
::This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.
::
::It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.
::
::
::To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)
::
::
::73's de Edd
::
::
::
::
::
::Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::

::
::
::
:
:









Sir Johnny. . . .


Hoooooookey . . . .then, with it not being the internally hollow hex hole, and utilizing the threaded slug with the molded end slots.

Boooooy . . . the whole top of that IF transformer is a breeze to expose, with those two twist tabs.


Alas, you need to pull the whole unit . . . en masse . . . in order to perform the bad bottom slug extraction.


You should be able to use a BRITE lite and magnifier and then put a tool in the end slot and rotationally flex a bit to confirm if the slug is split lenthgwise and then any splits expose themselves.


My procedure on that situation is then to to be able to locate the fractile seam(s) in the slug and then use a Dremel tool with either of these burrs as your grinding medium to grind another seam ~ 1/4 slug diameter over to the side of a split.


(Forget the HARD tungsten carbide burrs . . .as they just absolutely . . . ." Can't touch this !" . . .a la . . .MC Hammer. )


I also intermittently streamed in cooling water with an insulin syringe.


Examples:





OR:

<   >



Check the Internet for other sources of diamond encrusted burrs, I see Amazon has an assortmenrt as "cheep" as one Dremel unit.

If you grind out a seam length, isolating about a 1/4 of the diameter of the slug, all the way to the coil form, after it frees up, a heavy sewing needle can wedge in and pry it out.


The other 1/4 slug length and the 1/2 slug length will then almost fall out.


Then you find another slug to replace the now missing one with.




Thassittt . . .





73's de Edd




To vacillate or not to vacillate - that is the question . . . or is it?








2/10/2013 11:32:27 AMJohnny
:::Wanted to say thanks Edd. Warren sent me a picture of a can that is a perfect match. But stay tuned. I still have a ways to go.
::
::Johnny
::
::
::
::::::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
::::::
::::::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
:::::
:::::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
:::::
:::::Johnny
:::::
:::::Johnny
:::::
::::
::::

::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Sir Johnny . . . .
::::
::::
::::Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
::::
::::
::::REFERENCING:
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
::::
::::
::::
::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
::::
::::
::::With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
::::SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
::::
::::
::::
::::That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
::::
::::
::::With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
::::
::::
::::A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
::::
::::
::::What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
::::
::::
::::The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
::::
::::
::::The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
::::
::::
::::Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
::::
::::
::::A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
::::
::::
::::If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
::::
::::
::::I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
::::
::::
::::If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
::::
::::
::::If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
::::
::::
::::This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
::::
::::
::::And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
::::
::::
::::Thassittt . . .
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::73's de Edd
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::

::::
::::
::::
:::html>
:::

:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Sir Johnny . . . .
:::
:::
:::
:::ADDENDA:
:::
:::
:::
:::Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.
:::
:::
:::Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
:::NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?
:::
:::
:::Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?
:::
:::
:::A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.
:::
:::
:::Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.
:::
:::
:::
:::At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.
:::
:::
:::Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
:::AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.
:::
:::It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.
:::
:::
:::To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)
:::
:::
:::73's de Edd
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Johnny. . . .
:
:
:Hoooooookey . . . .then, with it not being the internally hollow hex hole, and utilizing the threaded slug with the molded end slots.
:
:
:
:Boooooy . . . the whole top of that IF transformer is a breeze to expose, with those two twist tabs.
:
:
:Alas, you need to pull the whole unit . . . en masse . . . in order to perform the bad bottom slug extraction.
:
:
:You should be able to use a BRITE lite and magnifier and then put a tool in the end slot and rotationally flex a bit to confirm if the slug is split lenthgwise and then any splits expose themselves.
:
:
:My procedure on that situation is then to to be able to locate the fractile seam(s) in the slug and then use a Dremel tool with either of these burrs as your grinding medium to grind another seam ~ 1/4 slug diameter over to the side of a split.
:
:
:(Forget the HARD tungsten carbide burrs . . .as they just absolutely . . . ." Can't touch this !" . . .a la . . .MC Hammer. )
:
:
:I also intermittently streamed in cooling water with an insulin syringe.
:
:
:Examples:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:OR:
:
:<   >
:
:
:
:Check the Internet for other sources of diamond encrusted burrs, I see Amazon has an assortmenrt as "cheep" as one Dremel unit.
:
:
:
:If you grind out a seam length, isolating about a 1/4 of the diameter of the slug, all the way to the coil form, after it frees up, a heavy sewing needle can wedge in and pry it out.
:
:
:The other 1/4 slug length and the 1/2 slug length will then almost fall out.
:
:
:Then you find another slug to replace the now missing one with.
:
:
:
:
:Thassittt . . .
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd
:
:
:
:
:
:To vacillate or not to vacillate - that is the question . . . or is it?
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:
:Give it a try Edd. Nothing else is working. I have those Dremel bits.

Tanx,
Johnny

2/16/2013 5:24:53 PMJohnny
Wanted to bring this to the top. I'm really stuck at this point and need more help. Here's a copy/paste of where I'm at.

I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts. Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.

I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem. I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3. Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem. May be wrong.

So lets talk antennas. I'm hooked up to my home made dipole in the attic above my shop. Works great for all other FM radios and without it this set gets nothing. I've heard it mentioned that these radios are sensitive to their own foil antenna in the cabinet and won't work correctly with anything else.

So I don't know where to go from here except to haul it upstairs to the room where its cabinet is. Just don't think that's the problem.

Ideas?

Johnny

:::Wanted to say thanks Edd. Warren sent me a picture of a can that is a perfect match. But stay tuned. I still have a ways to go.
::
::Johnny
::
::
::
::::::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
::::::
::::::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
:::::
:::::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
:::::
:::::Johnny
:::::
:::::Johnny
:::::
::::
::::

::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Sir Johnny . . . .
::::
::::
::::Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
::::
::::
::::REFERENCING:
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
::::
::::
::::
::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
::::
::::
::::With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
::::SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
::::
::::
::::
::::That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
::::
::::
::::With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
::::
::::
::::A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
::::
::::
::::What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
::::
::::
::::The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
::::
::::
::::The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
::::
::::
::::Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
::::
::::
::::A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
::::
::::
::::If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
::::
::::
::::I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
::::
::::
::::If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
::::
::::
::::If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
::::
::::
::::This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
::::
::::
::::And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
::::
::::
::::Thassittt . . .
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::73's de Edd
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::

::::
::::
::::
:::html>
:::

:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Sir Johnny . . . .
:::
:::
:::
:::ADDENDA:
:::
:::
:::
:::Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.
:::
:::
:::Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
:::NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?
:::
:::
:::Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?
:::
:::
:::A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.
:::
:::
:::Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.
:::
:::
:::
:::At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.
:::
:::
:::Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
:::AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.
:::
:::It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.
:::
:::
:::To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)
:::
:::
:::73's de Edd
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Johnny. . . .
:
:
:Hoooooookey . . . .then, with it not being the internally hollow hex hole, and utilizing the threaded slug with the molded end slots.
:
:
:
:Boooooy . . . the whole top of that IF transformer is a breeze to expose, with those two twist tabs.
:
:
:Alas, you need to pull the whole unit . . . en masse . . . in order to perform the bad bottom slug extraction.
:
:
:You should be able to use a BRITE lite and magnifier and then put a tool in the end slot and rotationally flex a bit to confirm if the slug is split lenthgwise and then any splits expose themselves.
:
:
:My procedure on that situation is then to to be able to locate the fractile seam(s) in the slug and then use a Dremel tool with either of these burrs as your grinding medium to grind another seam ~ 1/4 slug diameter over to the side of a split.
:
:
:(Forget the HARD tungsten carbide burrs . . .as they just absolutely . . . ." Can't touch this !" . . .a la . . .MC Hammer. )
:
:
:I also intermittently streamed in cooling water with an insulin syringe.
:
:
:Examples:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:OR:
:
:<   >
:
:
:
:Check the Internet for other sources of diamond encrusted burrs, I see Amazon has an assortmenrt as "cheep" as one Dremel unit.
:
:
:
:If you grind out a seam length, isolating about a 1/4 of the diameter of the slug, all the way to the coil form, after it frees up, a heavy sewing needle can wedge in and pry it out.
:
:
:The other 1/4 slug length and the 1/2 slug length will then almost fall out.
:
:
:Then you find another slug to replace the now missing one with.
:
:
:
:
:Thassittt . . .
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd
:
:
:
:
:
:To vacillate or not to vacillate - that is the question . . . or is it?
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:

2/18/2013 11:28:24 AMEdd









Sir Johnny . . . .


I believe that this is the LAST info sent.



I Wanted to bring this to the top. I'm really stuck at this point and need more help. Here's a copy/paste of where I'm at.


I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the
alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts.
Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.
I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem.
I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3.
Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem.

May be wrong.


You will be JUST FINE on the ratio det balancing out, aligning as you are currently . . . no scope is needed.

Your current problem is being the improper "tracking" of the FM oscillator.


You have the high end of the band set with your 106.3 falling in place as is PRINCIPALLY accomplished, with the setting of the trimmer capacitor on the FM oscillator stage.


You ALSO have an inductance adjustment associated with the FM oscillator coil.
This is MAINLY used to make the LOW end of the FM dial scale agree with its logging..


Your figures tell us that the FM oscillator is operating at too high of a frequency at the low end of the FM band..


Therefore you need more inductance coming from that oscillator coil.




Now try this:



Place the tuning of the set, slightly off the station, just to the LOWER frequency side of that ersatz 97.3 / 89.5 received station.


Adjust your osc coil inductance until the station just peaks and comes in clearly again on that station.


Do that procedure again until you are about "a quarter " away from achieving that dial scale logging to frequency agreement.


At that time, go back to the 106 station and see how much it is now deviated from its dial scale logging.


Use the FM trimmer capacitor to bring it into coincident alignment again.


Now go back and check on your 89.5 station again and finally retune inductance to get it down to being coincident with the dial scale logging.

This whole FM adjustment procedure is used to either s t r e t c h or squeeze the oscillators tracking frequency to correspond with dial scale logging . .as best as it can.

Basically . . varying the osc coil inductance . . . governs the LOW FREQUENCY end if the FM dial.


While varying the shunting trimmer capacitor of the FM tuning condenser oscillator section governs the HIGH FREQUENCY end if the FM dial.


When they are coincident you have dial scale tracking.

Thasssit . . . .



73's de Edd




As you climb the ladder of success, DO check occasionally, to make sure it is leaning against the right wall.






:Wanted to bring this to the top. I'm really stuck at this point and need more help. Here's a copy/paste of where I'm at.
:
:I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts. Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.
:
:I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem. I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3. Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem. May be wrong.
:
:So lets talk antennas. I'm hooked up to my home made dipole in the attic above my shop. Works great for all other FM radios and without it this set gets nothing. I've heard it mentioned that these radios are sensitive to their own foil antenna in the cabinet and won't work correctly with anything else.
:
:So I don't know where to go from here except to haul it upstairs to the room where its cabinet is. Just don't think that's the problem.
:
:Ideas?
:
:Johnny
:
:
:
::::Wanted to say thanks Edd. Warren sent me a picture of a can that is a perfect match. But stay tuned. I still have a ways to go.
:::
:::Johnny
:::
:::
:::
:::::::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
:::::::
:::::::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
::::::
::::::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
::::::
::::::Johnny
::::::
::::::Johnny
::::::
:::::
:::::

:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::Sir Johnny . . . .
:::::
:::::
:::::Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
:::::
:::::
:::::REFERENCING:
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
:::::
:::::
:::::With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
:::::SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
:::::
:::::
:::::With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
:::::
:::::
:::::A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
:::::
:::::
:::::What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
:::::
:::::
:::::The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
:::::
:::::
:::::The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
:::::
:::::
:::::Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
:::::
:::::
:::::A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
:::::
:::::
:::::If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
:::::
:::::
:::::I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
:::::
:::::
:::::If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
:::::
:::::
:::::If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
:::::
:::::
:::::This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
:::::
:::::
:::::And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
:::::
:::::
:::::Thassittt . . .
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::73's de Edd
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::

:::::
:::::
:::::
::::html>
::::

::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Sir Johnny . . . .
::::
::::
::::
::::ADDENDA:
::::
::::
::::
::::Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.
::::
::::
::::Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
::::NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?
::::
::::
::::Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?
::::
::::
::::A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.
::::
::::
::::Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.
::::
::::
::::
::::At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.
::::
::::
::::Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
::::AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.
::::
::::It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.
::::
::::
::::To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)
::::
::::
::::73's de Edd
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::

::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
::
::

::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Johnny. . . .
::
::
::Hoooooookey . . . .then, with it not being the internally hollow hex hole, and utilizing the threaded slug with the molded end slots.
::
::
::
::Boooooy . . . the whole top of that IF transformer is a breeze to expose, with those two twist tabs.
::
::
::Alas, you need to pull the whole unit . . . en masse . . . in order to perform the bad bottom slug extraction.
::
::
::You should be able to use a BRITE lite and magnifier and then put a tool in the end slot and rotationally flex a bit to confirm if the slug is split lenthgwise and then any splits expose themselves.
::
::
::My procedure on that situation is then to to be able to locate the fractile seam(s) in the slug and then use a Dremel tool with either of these burrs as your grinding medium to grind another seam ~ 1/4 slug diameter over to the side of a split.
::
::
::(Forget the HARD tungsten carbide burrs . . .as they just absolutely . . . ." Can't touch this !" . . .a la . . .MC Hammer. )
::
::
::I also intermittently streamed in cooling water with an insulin syringe.
::
::
::Examples:
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::OR:
::
::<   >
::
::
::
::Check the Internet for other sources of diamond encrusted burrs, I see Amazon has an assortmenrt as "cheep" as one Dremel unit.
::
::
::
::If you grind out a seam length, isolating about a 1/4 of the diameter of the slug, all the way to the coil form, after it frees up, a heavy sewing needle can wedge in and pry it out.
::
::
::The other 1/4 slug length and the 1/2 slug length will then almost fall out.
::
::
::Then you find another slug to replace the now missing one with.
::
::
::
::
::Thassittt . . .
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd
::
::
::
::
::
::To vacillate or not to vacillate - that is the question . . . or is it?
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::

::
::
::
:
:

2/19/2013 4:11:22 PMJohnny
Hi Edd,
I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific. I've looked over this schematic and just too many adjustments. Which one adjusts the "Oscillator Coil Inductance? Which one is the "FM Trimmer Capacitor?

I understand your instructions and what we're trying to do, I just don't know what to tweaky.

Obviously my first FM set and German to top it off.

Thanks,
Johnny

:
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Johnny . . . .
:
:
:I believe that this is the LAST info sent.
:
:
:
:I Wanted to bring this to the top. I'm really stuck at this point and need more help. Here's a copy/paste of where I'm at.
:
:
:I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the
:alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts.
:Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.
:I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem.
: I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3.
:Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem.
:
: May be wrong.
:
:
:
:
:You will be JUST FINE on the ratio det balancing out, aligning as you are currently . . . no scope is needed.
:
:
:
:Your current problem is being the improper "tracking" of the FM oscillator.
:
:
:You have the high end of the band set with your 106.3 falling in place as is PRINCIPALLY accomplished, with the setting of the trimmer capacitor on the FM oscillator stage.
:
:
:You ALSO have an inductance adjustment associated with the FM oscillator coil.
:This is MAINLY used to make the LOW end of the FM dial scale agree with its logging..
:
:
:Your figures tell us that the FM oscillator is operating at too high of a frequency at the low end of the FM band..
:
:
:Therefore you need more inductance coming from that oscillator coil.
:
:
:
:
:Now try this:
:
:
:
:
:
:Place the tuning of the set, slightly off the station, just to the LOWER frequency side of that ersatz 97.3 / 89.5 received station.
:
:
:Adjust your osc coil inductance until the station just peaks and comes in clearly again on that station.
:
:
: Do that procedure again until you are about "a quarter " away from achieving that dial scale logging to frequency agreement.
:
:
:At that time, go back to the 106 station and see how much it is now deviated from its dial scale logging.
:
:
:Use the FM trimmer capacitor to bring it into coincident alignment again.
:
:
:Now go back and check on your 89.5 station again and finally retune inductance to get it down to being coincident with the dial scale logging.
:
:
:
:This whole FM adjustment procedure is used to either s t r e t c h or squeeze the oscillators tracking frequency to correspond with dial scale logging . .as best as it can.
:
:
:
:Basically . . varying the osc coil inductance . . . governs the LOW FREQUENCY end if the FM dial.
:
:
:While varying the shunting trimmer capacitor of the FM tuning condenser oscillator section governs the HIGH FREQUENCY end if the FM dial.
:
:
:When they are coincident you have dial scale tracking.
:
:
:
:Thasssit . . . .
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd
:
:
:
:
:
:As you climb the ladder of success, DO check occasionally, to make sure it is leaning against the right wall.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
::Wanted to bring this to the top. I'm really stuck at this point and need more help. Here's a copy/paste of where I'm at.
::
::I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts. Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.
::
::I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem. I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3. Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem. May be wrong.
::
::So lets talk antennas. I'm hooked up to my home made dipole in the attic above my shop. Works great for all other FM radios and without it this set gets nothing. I've heard it mentioned that these radios are sensitive to their own foil antenna in the cabinet and won't work correctly with anything else.
::
::So I don't know where to go from here except to haul it upstairs to the room where its cabinet is. Just don't think that's the problem.
::
::Ideas?
::
::Johnny
::
::
::
:::::Wanted to say thanks Edd. Warren sent me a picture of a can that is a perfect match. But stay tuned. I still have a ways to go.
::::
::::Johnny
::::
::::
::::
::::::::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
::::::::
::::::::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
:::::::
:::::::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
:::::::
:::::::Johnny
:::::::
:::::::Johnny
:::::::
::::::
::::::

::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::Sir Johnny . . . .
::::::
::::::
::::::Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
::::::
::::::
::::::REFERENCING:
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
::::::
::::::
::::::With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
::::::SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
::::::
::::::
::::::With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
::::::
::::::
::::::A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
::::::
::::::
::::::What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
::::::
::::::
::::::The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
::::::
::::::
::::::The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
::::::
::::::
::::::Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
::::::
::::::
::::::A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
::::::
::::::
::::::If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
::::::
::::::
::::::I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
::::::
::::::
::::::If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
::::::
::::::
::::::If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
::::::
::::::
::::::This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
::::::
::::::
::::::And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
::::::
::::::
::::::Thassittt . . .
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::73's de Edd
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::

::::::
::::::
::::::
:::::html>
:::::

:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::Sir Johnny . . . .
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::ADDENDA:
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.
:::::
:::::
:::::Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
:::::NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?
:::::
:::::
:::::Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?
:::::
:::::
:::::A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.
:::::
:::::
:::::Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.
:::::
:::::
:::::Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
:::::AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.
:::::
:::::It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.
:::::
:::::
:::::To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)
:::::
:::::
:::::73's de Edd
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::

:::::
:::::
:::::
::::
::::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Sir Johnny. . . .
:::
:::
:::Hoooooookey . . . .then, with it not being the internally hollow hex hole, and utilizing the threaded slug with the molded end slots.
:::
:::
:::
:::Boooooy . . . the whole top of that IF transformer is a breeze to expose, with those two twist tabs.
:::
:::
:::Alas, you need to pull the whole unit . . . en masse . . . in order to perform the bad bottom slug extraction.
:::
:::
:::You should be able to use a BRITE lite and magnifier and then put a tool in the end slot and rotationally flex a bit to confirm if the slug is split lenthgwise and then any splits expose themselves.
:::
:::
:::My procedure on that situation is then to to be able to locate the fractile seam(s) in the slug and then use a Dremel tool with either of these burrs as your grinding medium to grind another seam ~ 1/4 slug diameter over to the side of a split.
:::
:::
:::(Forget the HARD tungsten carbide burrs . . .as they just absolutely . . . ." Can't touch this !" . . .a la . . .MC Hammer. )
:::
:::
:::I also intermittently streamed in cooling water with an insulin syringe.
:::
:::
:::Examples:
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::OR:
:::
:::<   >
:::
:::
:::
:::Check the Internet for other sources of diamond encrusted burrs, I see Amazon has an assortmenrt as "cheep" as one Dremel unit.
:::
:::
:::
:::If you grind out a seam length, isolating about a 1/4 of the diameter of the slug, all the way to the coil form, after it frees up, a heavy sewing needle can wedge in and pry it out.
:::
:::
:::The other 1/4 slug length and the 1/2 slug length will then almost fall out.
:::
:::
:::Then you find another slug to replace the now missing one with.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Thassittt . . .
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::73's de Edd
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::To vacillate or not to vacillate - that is the question . . . or is it?
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

2/19/2013 9:42:34 PMEdd









Sir Johnny . . . .


Why 'soitanly . . . . .


Make your referencing to the big schematic of the unit:


(Which I have placed at the very end of the post . . . . . due to its width.)



Here is the sets FM signal flow, with the initial V1A 6AQ8 section serving as a very BROAD tuned WIDE and thats HEAVEE on the WIDE band FM amplifier that outputs at C11.


RF then feeds down to the L7 FM RF coil and its companion resonating mate, the bottom section of the dual M8 FM variable tuning condenser.


This RF circuitry is also having an inductance and capacitance trimming capability in the form of the varable tuning slug (Adjustment 30) within L7 and the series arranged C13 trimmer (Adjustment 26) and C12, which effectively only gives just skosh of adjustment range at the 97 Meg freq area (hi FM band), while the L7 RF slug works with optimizing the 87 Meg freq area (lo FM band).


NOW . . . .for viewing our area of PRIME interest, that being the L8 FM oscillator and its companion, the top section of the dual M8 FM variable tuning condenser.


There is the Adjustment 29 slug of the L8 oscillator coil which is responsible for the 87 Meg freq area (lo FM band) tracking accuracy.


There is the C15 (Adjustment 25) trimming capacitor that shunts across the M80 variable tuning condenser and which is responsible for the 97 Meg freq area (hi FM band) tracking accuracy.


With the osc areas now pointed out re-read and then fulfill my prior given procedure.


To PHYSICALLY locate L8, find pin 6 of V1B and trace down to C20 and its connection into L8.
If you get on the other side of C20 and have the set tuned into an FM station, and touch that lead of C2 with the blade of a finger held screwdriver, it should skew off the station tuning, with that then further confirming the physical identity of L8.


One you get dial scale tracking, then doing the mentioned RF adjustments 26 and 30 optimizes received FM sensitivity.

Thassssit . . . fer now . . . .

73's de Edd




I'm still not sure if I fully understand ambiguity.










Fonovox Schematic:









:Hi Edd,
:I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific. I've looked over this schematic and just too many adjustments. Which one adjusts the "Oscillator Coil Inductance? Which one is the "FM Trimmer Capacitor?
:
:I understand your instructions and what we're trying to do, I just don't know what to tweaky.
:
:Obviously my first FM set and German to top it off.
:
:Thanks,
:Johnny
:
::
::

::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::Sir Johnny . . . .
::
::
::I believe that this is the LAST info sent.
::
::
::
::I Wanted to bring this to the top. I'm really stuck at this point and need more help. Here's a copy/paste of where I'm at.
::
::
::I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the
::alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts.
::Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.
::I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem.
:: I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3.
::Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem.
::
:: May be wrong.
::
::
::
::
::You will be JUST FINE on the ratio det balancing out, aligning as you are currently . . . no scope is needed.
::
::
::
::Your current problem is being the improper "tracking" of the FM oscillator.
::
::
::You have the high end of the band set with your 106.3 falling in place as is PRINCIPALLY accomplished, with the setting of the trimmer capacitor on the FM oscillator stage.
::
::
::You ALSO have an inductance adjustment associated with the FM oscillator coil.
::This is MAINLY used to make the LOW end of the FM dial scale agree with its logging..
::
::
::Your figures tell us that the FM oscillator is operating at too high of a frequency at the low end of the FM band..
::
::
::Therefore you need more inductance coming from that oscillator coil.
::
::
::
::
::Now try this:
::
::
::
::
::
::Place the tuning of the set, slightly off the station, just to the LOWER frequency side of that ersatz 97.3 / 89.5 received station.
::
::
::Adjust your osc coil inductance until the station just peaks and comes in clearly again on that station.
::
::
:: Do that procedure again until you are about "a quarter " away from achieving that dial scale logging to frequency agreement.
::
::
::At that time, go back to the 106 station and see how much it is now deviated from its dial scale logging.
::
::
::Use the FM trimmer capacitor to bring it into coincident alignment again.
::
::
::Now go back and check on your 89.5 station again and finally retune inductance to get it down to being coincident with the dial scale logging.
::
::
::
::This whole FM adjustment procedure is used to either s t r e t c h or squeeze the oscillators tracking frequency to correspond with dial scale logging . .as best as it can.
::
::
::
::Basically . . varying the osc coil inductance . . . governs the LOW FREQUENCY end if the FM dial.
::
::
::While varying the shunting trimmer capacitor of the FM tuning condenser oscillator section governs the HIGH FREQUENCY end if the FM dial.
::
::
::When they are coincident you have dial scale tracking.
::
::
::
::Thasssit . . . .
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd
::
::
::
::
::
::As you climb the ladder of success, DO check occasionally, to make sure it is leaning against the right wall.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::

::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
:::Wanted to bring this to the top. I'm really stuck at this point and need more help. Here's a copy/paste of where I'm at.
:::
:::I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts. Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.
:::
:::I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem. I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3. Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem. May be wrong.
:::
:::So lets talk antennas. I'm hooked up to my home made dipole in the attic above my shop. Works great for all other FM radios and without it this set gets nothing. I've heard it mentioned that these radios are sensitive to their own foil antenna in the cabinet and won't work correctly with anything else.
:::
:::So I don't know where to go from here except to haul it upstairs to the room where its cabinet is. Just don't think that's the problem.
:::
:::Ideas?
:::
:::Johnny
:::
:::
:::
::::::Wanted to say thanks Edd. Warren sent me a picture of a can that is a perfect match. But stay tuned. I still have a ways to go.
:::::
:::::Johnny
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::::::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
:::::::::
:::::::::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
::::::::
::::::::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
::::::::
::::::::Johnny
::::::::
::::::::Johnny
::::::::
:::::::
:::::::

:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::Sir Johnny . . . .
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::REFERENCING:
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
:::::::SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::Thassittt . . .
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::73's de Edd
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
:::::::

:::::::
:::::::
:::::::
::::::html>
::::::

::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::Sir Johnny . . . .
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::ADDENDA:
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.
::::::
::::::
::::::Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
::::::NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?
::::::
::::::
::::::Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?
::::::
::::::
::::::A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.
::::::
::::::
::::::Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.
::::::
::::::
::::::Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
::::::AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.
::::::
::::::It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.
::::::
::::::
::::::To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)
::::::
::::::
::::::73's de Edd
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::
::::::

::::::
::::::
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::
::::

::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Sir Johnny. . . .
::::
::::
::::Hoooooookey . . . .then, with it not being the internally hollow hex hole, and utilizing the threaded slug with the molded end slots.
::::
::::
::::
::::Boooooy . . . the whole top of that IF transformer is a breeze to expose, with those two twist tabs.
::::
::::
::::Alas, you need to pull the whole unit . . . en masse . . . in order to perform the bad bottom slug extraction.
::::
::::
::::You should be able to use a BRITE lite and magnifier and then put a tool in the end slot and rotationally flex a bit to confirm if the slug is split lenthgwise and then any splits expose themselves.
::::
::::
::::My procedure on that situation is then to to be able to locate the fractile seam(s) in the slug and then use a Dremel tool with either of these burrs as your grinding medium to grind another seam ~ 1/4 slug diameter over to the side of a split.
::::
::::
::::(Forget the HARD tungsten carbide burrs . . .as they just absolutely . . . ." Can't touch this !" . . .a la . . .MC Hammer. )
::::
::::
::::I also intermittently streamed in cooling water with an insulin syringe.
::::
::::
::::Examples:
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::OR:
::::
::::<   >
::::
::::
::::
::::Check the Internet for other sources of diamond encrusted burrs, I see Amazon has an assortmenrt as "cheep" as one Dremel unit.
::::
::::
::::
::::If you grind out a seam length, isolating about a 1/4 of the diameter of the slug, all the way to the coil form, after it frees up, a heavy sewing needle can wedge in and pry it out.
::::
::::
::::The other 1/4 slug length and the 1/2 slug length will then almost fall out.
::::
::::
::::Then you find another slug to replace the now missing one with.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::Thassittt . . .
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::73's de Edd
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::To vacillate or not to vacillate - that is the question . . . or is it?
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::

::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

2/20/2013 4:54:13 PMJohnny
Well thank ya Edd! Spent all day today tweaking that slug and the trimmer and finally got to the point of "When they are coincident you have dial scale tracking". I know I couldn't have done it without ya.

Thanks a bunch!
Johnny


:
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:Sir Johnny . . . .
:
:
:Why 'soitanly . . . . .
:
:
:Make your referencing to the big schematic of the unit:
:
:
:(Which I have placed at the very end of the post . . . . . due to its width.)
:
:
:
:Here is the sets FM signal flow, with the initial V1A 6AQ8 section serving as a very BROAD tuned WIDE and thats HEAVEE on the WIDE band FM amplifier that outputs at C11.
:
:
:RF then feeds down to the L7 FM RF coil and its companion resonating mate, the bottom section of the dual M8 FM variable tuning condenser.
:
:
:This RF circuitry is also having an inductance and capacitance trimming capability in the form of the varable tuning slug (Adjustment 30) within L7 and the series arranged C13 trimmer (Adjustment 26) and C12, which effectively only gives just skosh of adjustment range at the 97 Meg freq area (hi FM band), while the L7 RF slug works with optimizing the 87 Meg freq area (lo FM band).
:
:
:NOW . . . .for viewing our area of PRIME interest, that being the L8 FM oscillator and its companion, the top section of the dual M8 FM variable tuning condenser.
:
:
:There is the Adjustment 29 slug of the L8 oscillator coil which is responsible for the 87 Meg freq area (lo FM band) tracking accuracy.
:
:
:There is the C15 (Adjustment 25) trimming capacitor that shunts across the M80 variable tuning condenser and which is responsible for the 97 Meg freq area (hi FM band) tracking accuracy.
:
:
:With the osc areas now pointed out re-read and then fulfill my prior given procedure.
:
:
:To PHYSICALLY locate L8, find pin 6 of V1B and trace down to C20 and its connection into L8.
:If you get on the other side of C20 and have the set tuned into an FM station, and touch that lead of C2 with the blade of a finger held screwdriver, it should skew off the station tuning, with that then further confirming the physical identity of L8.
:
:
:One you get dial scale tracking, then doing the mentioned RF adjustments 26 and 30 optimizes received FM sensitivity.
:
:
:
:Thassssit . . . fer now . . . .
:
:
:
:73's de Edd
:
:
:
:
:
:I'm still not sure if I fully understand ambiguity.
:
:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:
: Fonovox Schematic:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
::Hi Edd,
::I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific. I've looked over this schematic and just too many adjustments. Which one adjusts the "Oscillator Coil Inductance? Which one is the "FM Trimmer Capacitor?
::
::I understand your instructions and what we're trying to do, I just don't know what to tweaky.
::
::Obviously my first FM set and German to top it off.
::
::Thanks,
::Johnny
::
:::
:::

:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Sir Johnny . . . .
:::
:::
:::I believe that this is the LAST info sent.
:::
:::
:::
:::I Wanted to bring this to the top. I'm really stuck at this point and need more help. Here's a copy/paste of where I'm at.
:::
:::
:::I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the
:::alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts.
:::Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.
:::I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem.
::: I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3.
:::Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem.
:::
::: May be wrong.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::You will be JUST FINE on the ratio det balancing out, aligning as you are currently . . . no scope is needed.
:::
:::
:::
:::Your current problem is being the improper "tracking" of the FM oscillator.
:::
:::
:::You have the high end of the band set with your 106.3 falling in place as is PRINCIPALLY accomplished, with the setting of the trimmer capacitor on the FM oscillator stage.
:::
:::
:::You ALSO have an inductance adjustment associated with the FM oscillator coil.
:::This is MAINLY used to make the LOW end of the FM dial scale agree with its logging..
:::
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:::Your figures tell us that the FM oscillator is operating at too high of a frequency at the low end of the FM band..
:::
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:::Therefore you need more inductance coming from that oscillator coil.
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:::
:::Now try this:
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:::
:::Place the tuning of the set, slightly off the station, just to the LOWER frequency side of that ersatz 97.3 / 89.5 received station.
:::
:::
:::Adjust your osc coil inductance until the station just peaks and comes in clearly again on that station.
:::
:::
::: Do that procedure again until you are about "a quarter " away from achieving that dial scale logging to frequency agreement.
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:::
:::At that time, go back to the 106 station and see how much it is now deviated from its dial scale logging.
:::
:::
:::Use the FM trimmer capacitor to bring it into coincident alignment again.
:::
:::
:::Now go back and check on your 89.5 station again and finally retune inductance to get it down to being coincident with the dial scale logging.
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:::This whole FM adjustment procedure is used to either s t r e t c h or squeeze the oscillators tracking frequency to correspond with dial scale logging . .as best as it can.
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:::Basically . . varying the osc coil inductance . . . governs the LOW FREQUENCY end if the FM dial.
:::
:::
:::While varying the shunting trimmer capacitor of the FM tuning condenser oscillator section governs the HIGH FREQUENCY end if the FM dial.
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:::When they are coincident you have dial scale tracking.
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:::Thasssit . . . .
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:::73's de Edd
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:::As you climb the ladder of success, DO check occasionally, to make sure it is leaning against the right wall.
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::::Wanted to bring this to the top. I'm really stuck at this point and need more help. Here's a copy/paste of where I'm at.
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::::I have the new coils and can installed. Thank you Warren! FM is better and I was able to go as far as I can on the alignment without having an o-scope which is the last part of the FM alignment. I was able to adjust the one slug for 0 volts. Very sensitive. I'm at about 0.03 volts positive.
::::
::::I don't believe I have a component problem (resistor, cap etc,) any more as much as I have an alignment problem. I have 106.3 set up to come in at 106.3 on the dial but the further left I go the more things are off. 89.5 on the dial is playing 97.3. Even if I had a scope I don't think it would cure this problem. May be wrong.
::::
::::So lets talk antennas. I'm hooked up to my home made dipole in the attic above my shop. Works great for all other FM radios and without it this set gets nothing. I've heard it mentioned that these radios are sensitive to their own foil antenna in the cabinet and won't work correctly with anything else.
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::::So I don't know where to go from here except to haul it upstairs to the room where its cabinet is. Just don't think that's the problem.
::::
::::Ideas?
::::
::::Johnny
::::
::::
::::
:::::::Wanted to say thanks Edd. Warren sent me a picture of a can that is a perfect match. But stay tuned. I still have a ways to go.
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::::::Johnny
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::::::
::::::::::Freeze mist come in an aerosol can. May find this at an electronics store. You can use compressed air in the aerosol can for cleaning keyboards and est. Just turn the can upside down press gently the button and you will get a liquid freeze mist. You said the can was already fooled with. The slug may already be damaged. This may mean you have to remove the can to replace the slug.
::::::::::
::::::::::Thanks Warren! I have serious concerns about that slug being in good condition. This is a two coil can but it's not like an American radio can. About 3 inches long and an inch or so wide with the four adjustment holes in the top. Have no idea where I'd find another one of those.
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:::::::::A fella about 20 miles from me has a Nordmende Fidelio 58 but looking at some pictures I found of that radio it has very different cans on it. But I did find a web site that has a ton of IF coils. I just need one that has an intermediate frequency of 10.7mHz and the proper coils on it. Sounds like a needle in a big stack of needles.
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:::::::::Johnny
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:::::::::Johnny
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::::::::Sir Johnny . . . .
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::::::::Thinking back . . . the last time I remember that set, was coming on up to a year or so now, when you were having a B+ problem.
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::::::::REFERENCING:
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::::::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/297/M0097297.htm
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::::::::Also, at that time, you only had a wee size schematic, so I pulled out and prepared the GEE-IANT one at the end of this post.
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::::::::http://www.nostalgiaair.org/forums/Messages/340/M0097340.htm
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::::::::Apparently you have advanced thru the sets RF circuitry now, and have the Eff Emm now fully Eff Emming.
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::::::::With your tuneup having progressed to the PRIMARY input winding of the " Ray-Show " transformer but encountering a slug problem with the
::::::::SECONDARY of that unit and not being able to finally Zero-balance out the tuning.
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::::::::That specific secondary slug is the most important of the quality of the produced FM sound and will have crappy sound if not being precise.
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::::::::With your quiescent 2.5 volt error imbalance you should have 3/4's crappy sound !
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::::::::A companion problem on ratio detector circuitry is the accumulator capacitor, C3 on your set, and can cause additional weak sound if its electrolyte has dried out and is NOW being down in the mere tenth's of a microfarad value.
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::::::::What I really am wondering NOW from you is HOW that slug is constructed.
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::::::::In very olden times they used a brass rod to move the slug in and out.
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::::::::The next phase was to use a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a cross cut slot on its end to adjust .
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::::::::The next development was the use of a molded / threaded powdered iron slug with a central hollow hex opening which used the common Nylon or Delrin plastic "diddling stick".
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::::::::Lastly, and since yours is foreign, I want to suspicion that situation of construction is using a threaded powdered iron slug with either a square central hollow opening OR a rectangular recess molded within the ends of the slug.
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::::::::A non metallic plastic or fiberglass standard mini screwdriver tip configuration on the alignment tool then fits within that molded slot.
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::::::::If being the last type, they always liked to flood the slug with wax.
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::::::::I can offer no further response until hearing back . . . . WHAT type of construction is being used on the errant slug.
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::::::::If the slug happens to be hollow, an interim tuning evaluation can be ascertained by the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter allen wrench into the hollow slug to see if the now 2.5 shifts closer to Zero volts.
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::::::::If it increases instead, then the gradual insertion of a just smaller diameter brass or aluminum wire into the hollow slug should shift the voltege closer to Zero volts.
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::::::::This at least confirms that more effective inductance is needed . . . in the case of the allen wrenchs skewing of tuning or less inductance is needed . . . . in the case of the non ferrous metals presence.
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::::::::And that coil resonates with the C60 and C61 companion fixed capacitors.
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::::::::Thassittt . . .
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::::::::73's de Edd
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::::::::The average man's judgement is so poor, he runs a risk every time he uses it.
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:::::::Sir Johnny . . . .
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:::::::ADDENDA:
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:::::::Methinks that this is being your type of FM IF Ratio-det transformer.
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:::::::The one in question, being parked just to the right of the sets 6T8.
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:::::::Therefore, they should be individual powdered iron threaded /molded slugs.
:::::::NOW . . the question is . . . how are the adjustment aspects handled ?
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:::::::Is the slug hollow with a hex or square hole internal ?
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:::::::A common problem of a non budging slug in that case, is the slug being split in half longitudinally.
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:::::::Any attempt at adjustment spreads the split halves and they then expand and BITE into the coil form.
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:::::::At times in the past I have had luck in the case of a hex hole in the TOTAL degreasing of that diddle stick of any surfactal wax/grease.
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:::::::Then get a wooden toothpick and chew on about a 1/4 in end length to develop "bristles" and use with solvent to clean out the hole in the slug.
:::::::AND THEN . . . you use a drop or so of the common watery /liquid Super Glue on the diddle stick and press into the slug and then wait over night for a "sure" setting.
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:::::::This is my "original" favorite and even "Dollar" stores stock it.
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:::::::This has then bonded the two and I have been able to slowly work the slug out.
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:::::::It may even require hot air being blown down the forms core.
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:::::::To be on the safe side, I also worked the slug backwards 1/4 turn, then forwards 1/2 turn . . . . . (just like the procedure you would use for a tap, when threading into hard steel.)
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:::::::73's de Edd
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:::::::Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
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:::::Sir Johnny. . . .
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:::::Hoooooookey . . . .then, with it not being the internally hollow hex hole, and utilizing the threaded slug with the molded end slots.
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:::::Boooooy . . . the whole top of that IF transformer is a breeze to expose, with those two twist tabs.
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:::::Alas, you need to pull the whole unit . . . en masse . . . in order to perform the bad bottom slug extraction.
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:::::You should be able to use a BRITE lite and magnifier and then put a tool in the end slot and rotationally flex a bit to confirm if the slug is split lenthgwise and then any splits expose themselves.
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:::::My procedure on that situation is then to to be able to locate the fractile seam(s) in the slug and then use a Dremel tool with either of these burrs as your grinding medium to grind another seam ~ 1/4 slug diameter over to the side of a split.
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:::::(Forget the HARD tungsten carbide burrs . . .as they just absolutely . . . ." Can't touch this !" . . .a la . . .MC Hammer. )
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:::::I also intermittently streamed in cooling water with an insulin syringe.
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:::::Check the Internet for other sources of diamond encrusted burrs, I see Amazon has an assortmenrt as "cheep" as one Dremel unit.
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:::::If you grind out a seam length, isolating about a 1/4 of the diameter of the slug, all the way to the coil form, after it frees up, a heavy sewing needle can wedge in and pry it out.
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:::::The other 1/4 slug length and the 1/2 slug length will then almost fall out.
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:::::Then you find another slug to replace the now missing one with.
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:::::Thassittt . . .
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:::::73's de Edd
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:::::To vacillate or not to vacillate - that is the question . . . or is it?
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2/9/2013 11:45:52 AM
:I'm asking everyone else so I might as well ask the experts here too.
:
:I'm trying to perform an alignment of the FM on a Fonovox 7060. It says on the alignment procedure to set the dial at the "Point of non-interference". What does that mean?
:
:And when it says to "Adjust A18 for "maximum deflection" well, I'm working with a negative voltage. I can adjust A18 from a -5Vdc all the way to about -13.5Vdc and if I go beyond that point I start bringing the voltage back to a higher neg voltage of -5Vdc. So is the -13.5Vdc the maximum deflection?
:
:Thanks folks,
:Johnny
:



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