I know this is going to sound strange but i have a hard time understand how a tube work even though i work with them,so hear we go. a simple yes or no ..Does high voltage dc from the plate flow to ground through the cathode...at some potential.. does that determine the hv draw from the power supply. i am not concerned about the cathode resister or cap,does it flow from plate to ground. thanks Terry

Electrons flow from the cathode to the plate. They are emitted by the cathode. When the cathode is heated, electrons are knocked loose. Heat is a form of vibration (use of energy), and this vibration moves around molecules. Move them around enough, and things get knocked loose--mostly electrons. Sometimes positive ions get knocked loose, too. A chemical is added to the cathode to aid in electron emission.

'Ground' in a radio is merely the common negative and signal point in the radio. The electrons flow from the negative part of the power supply through the cathode of the tube and then to the plate and then through the positive part of the power supply. The negative part of the power supply, if tied to the chassis, can be considered 'chassis ground.' This is not the same as Earth ground, and even this has nothing magical about it. It is merely a conductive object that may or may not be part of an electrical circuit, depending on how things are connected. Unfortunately the use of the word 'ground' tends to confuse many, as it leads people to believe that it is more than what it really is.

Normally grid bias DOES affect the over-all draw from the power supply, so the cathode bias resistors do actually play into this. However, if the tube were biased to full conduction, it would be the tube's internal resistance between the cathode and plate that would determine the maximum current drawn (plus any resistors in series with the cathode and plate).

:Electrons flow from the cathode to the plate. They are emitted by the cathode. When the cathode is heated, electrons are knocked loose. Heat is a form of vibration (use of energy), and this vibration moves around molecules. Move them around enough, and things get knocked loose--mostly electrons. Sometimes positive ions get knocked loose, too. A chemical is added to the cathode to aid in electron emission.
:
:'Ground' in a radio is merely the common negative and signal point in the radio. The electrons flow from the negative part of the power supply through the cathode of the tube and then to the plate and then through the positive part of the power supply. The negative part of the power supply, if tied to the chassis, can be considered 'chassis ground.' This is not the same as Earth ground, and even this has nothing magical about it. It is merely a conductive object that may or may not be part of an electrical circuit, depending on how things are connected. Unfortunately the use of the word 'ground' tends to confuse many, as it leads people to believe that it is more than what it really is.
:
:Normally grid bias DOES affect the over-all draw from the power supply, so the cathode bias resistors do actually play into this. However, if the tube were biased to full conduction, it would be the tube's internal resistance between the cathode and plate that would determine the maximum current drawn (plus any resistors in series with the cathode and plate).
:

::
::'Ground' in a radio is merely the common negative and signal point in the radio. The electrons flow from the negative part of the power supply through the cathode of the tube and then to the plate and then through the positive part of the power supply. The negative part of the power supply, if tied to the chassis, can be considered 'chassis ground.' This is not the same as Earth ground, and even this has nothing magical about it. It is merely a conductive object that may or may not be part of an electrical circuit, depending on how things are connected. Unfortunately the use of the word 'ground' tends to confuse many, as it leads people to believe that it is more than what it really is.
::
::Normally grid bias DOES affect the over-all draw from the power supply, so the cathode bias resistors do actually play into this. However, if the tube were biased to full conduction, it would be the tube's internal resistance between the cathode and plate that would determine the maximum current drawn (plus any resistors in series with the cathode and plate).
:: I removed some of your post----I have not done this before, thank you, it makes it vary clear to me,now that the negative will be attracted to the positive in this manner.any flow in the plate current will be the normal load of the tube plus what ever electrons that come off the cathode., now what we are saying if i get this that by adding resistors or caps to the cathode that is the bias ,the amount of idle currant. when at rest terry
:
:

:
:::
:::'Ground' in a radio is merely the common negative and signal point in the radio. The electrons flow from the negative part of the power supply through the cathode of the tube and then to the plate and then through the positive part of the power supply. The negative part of the power supply, if tied to the chassis, can be considered 'chassis ground.' This is not the same as Earth ground, and even this has nothing magical about it. It is merely a conductive object that may or may not be part of an electrical circuit, depending on how things are connected. Unfortunately the use of the word 'ground' tends to confuse many, as it leads people to believe that it is more than what it really is.
:::
:::Normally grid bias DOES affect the over-all draw from the power supply, so the cathode bias resistors do actually play into this. However, if the tube were biased to full conduction, it would be the tube's internal resistance between the cathode and plate that would determine the maximum current drawn (plus any resistors in series with the cathode and plate).
::: I removed some of your post----I have not done this before, thank you, it makes it vary clear to me,now that the negative will be attracted to the positive in this manner.any flow in the plate current will be the normal load of the tube plus what ever electrons that come off the cathode., now what we are saying if i get this that by adding resistors or caps to the cathode that is the bias ,the amount of idle currant. when at rest terry

Terry:
Google a site called "Fun With Tubes"; this guy knows his stuff and explains it very, very well. By the way, it was no less a genius than Ben Franklin that decided that current flowed from positive to negative, so we draw schematics as if the electrons were leaving the rectifier tube, going to the plate, then to the cathode, to "ground", when actually the reverse it true. The electrons leave the cathode, go through the control grid, to the plate and then to the rectifier tube.
Lewis
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::
:
:

::
::::
::::'Ground' in a radio is merely the common negative and signal point in the radio. The electrons flow from the negative part of the power supply through the cathode of the tube and then to the plate and then through the positive part of the power supply. The negative part of the power supply, if tied to the chassis, can be considered 'chassis ground.' This is not the same as Earth ground, and even this has nothing magical about it. It is merely a conductive object that may or may not be part of an electrical circuit, depending on how things are connected. Unfortunately the use of the word 'ground' tends to confuse many, as it leads people to believe that it is more than what it really is.
::::
::::Normally grid bias DOES affect the over-all draw from the power supply, so the cathode bias resistors do actually play into this. However, if the tube were biased to full conduction, it would be the tube's internal resistance between the cathode and plate that would determine the maximum current drawn (plus any resistors in series with the cathode and plate).
:::: I removed some of your post----I have not done this before, thank you, it makes it vary clear to me,now that the negative will be attracted to the positive in this manner.any flow in the plate current will be the normal load of the tube plus what ever electrons that come off the cathode., now what we are saying if i get this that by adding resistors or caps to the cathode that is the bias ,the amount of idle currant. when at rest terry
:
:Terry:
:Google a site called "Fun With Tubes"; this guy knows his stuff and explains it very, very well. By the way, it was no less a genius than Ben Franklin that decided that current flowed from positive to negative, so we draw schematics as if the electrons were leaving the rectifier tube, going to the plate, then to the cathode, to "ground", when actually the reverse it true. The electrons leave the cathode, go through the control grid, to the plate and then to the rectifier tube.
:Lewis
:::
::: Thanks Lewis i have been doing repairs for years and could never get it .now it is clear, like so many things in life i have it backwards.i could never understand how one could have current flowing out of the plate and still have to have the cathode going to ground,that would complete the power supply circuit. i always thought it was negative electrons flowing from the positive to the negative, it time to rethink things and to get a better understanding how the tube is loaded every one hear has been a big help,i wish i would have said something years ago when i started fooling around with stuff. thank all of you vary much Terry
::
::
:
:

:::
:::::
:::::'Ground' in a radio is merely the common negative and signal point in the radio. The electrons flow from the negative part of the power supply through the cathode of the tube and then to the plate and then through the positive part of the power supply. The negative part of the power supply, if tied to the chassis, can be considered 'chassis ground.' This is not the same as Earth ground, and even this has nothing magical about it. It is merely a conductive object that may or may not be part of an electrical circuit, depending on how things are connected. Unfortunately the use of the word 'ground' tends to confuse many, as it leads people to believe that it is more than what it really is.
:::::
:::::Normally grid bias DOES affect the over-all draw from the power supply, so the cathode bias resistors do actually play into this. However, if the tube were biased to full conduction, it would be the tube's internal resistance between the cathode and plate that would determine the maximum current drawn (plus any resistors in series with the cathode and plate).
::::: I removed some of your post----I have not done this before, thank you, it makes it vary clear to me,now that the negative will be attracted to the positive in this manner.any flow in the plate current will be the normal load of the tube plus what ever electrons that come off the cathode., now what we are saying if i get this that by adding resistors or caps to the cathode that is the bias ,the amount of idle currant. when at rest terry
::
::Terry:
::Google a site called "Fun With Tubes"; this guy knows his stuff and explains it very, very well. By the way, it was no less a genius than Ben Franklin that decided that current flowed from positive to negative, so we draw schematics as if the electrons were leaving the rectifier tube, going to the plate, then to the cathode, to "ground", when actually the reverse it true. The electrons leave the cathode, go through the control grid, to the plate and then to the rectifier tube.
::Lewis
::::
:::: Thanks Lewis i have been doing repairs for years and could never get it .now it is clear, like so many things in life i have it backwards.i could never understand how one could have current flowing out of the plate and still have to have the cathode going to ground,that would complete the power supply circuit. i always thought it was negative electrons flowing from the positive to the negative, it time to rethink things and to get a better understanding how the tube is loaded every one hear has been a big help,i wish i would have said something years ago when i started fooling around with stuff. thank all of you vary much Terry
::: Lewis the web site you sent me to is out of the box, a myth buster if you will,i only went to simple dc circuits and my thinking been shook,so i am going to relearn the things that i though i knew,i wonder how many are like me out there that though they understood things and how many will be able to change ,thank you.Terry
:::
::
::
:
:

:::
:::::
:::::'Ground' in a radio is merely the common negative and signal point in the radio. The electrons flow from the negative part of the power supply through the cathode of the tube and then to the plate and then through the positive part of the power supply. The negative part of the power supply, if tied to the chassis, can be considered 'chassis ground.' This is not the same as Earth ground, and even this has nothing magical about it. It is merely a conductive object that may or may not be part of an electrical circuit, depending on how things are connected. Unfortunately the use of the word 'ground' tends to confuse many, as it leads people to believe that it is more than what it really is.
:::::
:::::Normally grid bias DOES affect the over-all draw from the power supply, so the cathode bias resistors do actually play into this. However, if the tube were biased to full conduction, it would be the tube's internal resistance between the cathode and plate that would determine the maximum current drawn (plus any resistors in series with the cathode and plate).
::::: I removed some of your post----I have not done this before, thank you, it makes it vary clear to me,now that the negative will be attracted to the positive in this manner.any flow in the plate current will be the normal load of the tube plus what ever electrons that come off the cathode., now what we are saying if i get this that by adding resistors or caps to the cathode that is the bias ,the amount of idle currant. when at rest terry
::
::Terry:
::Google a site called "Fun With Tubes"; this guy knows his stuff and explains it very, very well. By the way, it was no less a genius than Ben Franklin that decided that current flowed from positive to negative, so we draw schematics as if the electrons were leaving the rectifier tube, going to the plate, then to the cathode, to "ground", when actually the reverse it true. The electrons leave the cathode, go through the control grid, to the plate and then to the rectifier tube.
::Lewis
::::
:::: Thanks Lewis i have been doing repairs for years and could never get it .now it is clear, like so many things in life i have it backwards.i could never understand how one could have current flowing out of the plate and still have to have the cathode going to ground,that would complete the power supply circuit. i always thought it was negative electrons flowing from the positive to the negative, it time to rethink things and to get a better understanding how the tube is loaded every one hear has been a big help,i wish i would have said something years ago when i started fooling around with stuff. thank all of you vary much Terry

Terry:
Another little oddball fact.....when Edison was trying to perfect the incandescent bulb, he thought of placing a plate in the bulb to keep the globe from turning dark from the carbon filaments he was using, and discovered that current would flow from the filament to the plate, but not vice-versa. That is called the Edison effect, but he didn't follow up on it or we might have had tubes thirty years earlier than we did. Also, something I have seen on this site you might like is a film about a guy in France, I think it is, who makes tubes at home. Someone might direct you to it, it's interesting to say the least.
Lewis

Placing a resistor between the cathode and the negative source causes a voltage drop across the resistor, with the cathode side of the resistor being more positive than the other side of the resistor. If the grid load resistor is connected to the cathode side of the resistor, this keeps the grid biased at the same potential as the cathode, excluding other factors such as grid leak bias. If the grid is connected to the more negative side of the cathode resistor, this biases the grid more negative than the cathode, which will reduce electron flow through the grid, since the grid will repel some electrons. Normally, for class A operation, the grid is biased so that the tube conducts halfway on the linear portion of the range from cut-off to full conduction. Bias of this method is 'automatic', because as the tube conducts more, there will be more current drawn through the resistor, which will cause a larger voltage drop, which will subsequently bias the grid more negatively.

This automatic bias adjustment is instantaneous, and will cause a reduction in gain. A capacitor can be placed across the resistor, and it will charge up to the voltage across the resistor. If the value of the capacitor is great enough, it will take a great amount of time to be discharged. If the discharge rate is much lower than the lowest frequencies encountered, the charge will maintain the voltage across the cathode resistor to a relatively contstant level, and will maintain a rather constant average bias. In this way gain will not be reduced, as the automatic bias changes will not mimmic the incoming signal. The bias will still automatically maintain, but at a much slower rate--fast enough for thigs like tube aging, but not so fast as to be affected by the incoming signal.
:

:::
:::'Ground' in a radio is merely the common negative and signal point in the radio. The electrons flow from the negative part of the power supply through the cathode of the tube and then to the plate and then through the positive part of the power supply. The negative part of the power supply, if tied to the chassis, can be considered 'chassis ground.' This is not the same as Earth ground, and even this has nothing magical about it. It is merely a conductive object that may or may not be part of an electrical circuit, depending on how things are connected. Unfortunately the use of the word 'ground' tends to confuse many, as it leads people to believe that it is more than what it really is.
:::
:::Normally grid bias DOES affect the over-all draw from the power supply, so the cathode bias resistors do actually play into this. However, if the tube were biased to full conduction, it would be the tube's internal resistance between the cathode and plate that would determine the maximum current drawn (plus any resistors in series with the cathode and plate).
::: I removed some of your post----I have not done this before, thank you, it makes it vary clear to me,now that the negative will be attracted to the positive in this manner.any flow in the plate current will be the normal load of the tube plus what ever electrons that come off the cathode., now what we are saying if i get this that by adding resistors or caps to the cathode that is the bias ,the amount of idle currant. when at rest terry
::
::
:
:

I always get a kick out of discussions about which direction the current "really" goes in a tube or anywhere else. It never seems to occur to some that all the definitions are arbitrary and as long as everyone uses the same conventions it makes absolutely no difference. The only reason an electron is negative is because we say it is.

Conventional current flow is from positive to negative. The military used to teach electron flow so the training manuals said current went from negative to positive. Defining it this way probably seemed to make more sense when dealing with vacuum tubes. I always wondered if they thought the GI's were too stupid to understand the concept of a defined convention.

:I always get a kick out of discussions about which direction the current "really" goes in a tube or anywhere else. It never seems to occur to some that all the definitions are arbitrary and as long as everyone uses the same conventions it makes absolutely no difference. The only reason an electron is negative is because we say it is.
:
:Conventional current flow is from positive to negative. The military used to teach electron flow so the training manuals said current went from negative to positive. Defining it this way probably seemed to make more sense when dealing with vacuum tubes. I always wondered if they thought the GI's were too stupid to understand the concept of a defined convention.
:
Fred, if you see electrons as being positive, is the nucleus of a molecule negative? :>)
In a battery or when you are electroplating, you can picture tiny particles leaving the negative pole and attaching to the positive. I think that is why the negative electron makes slightly more sense.

There is also some thought that lightning travels from the earth to the clouds, but I think the result is the same, a mighty wallop and a hot spot somewhere on the earth.

Can anyone explain why some car manufacturers built cars with positive to "ground" which was the chassis, while most used negative ground? It seemed to make no difference either way, but of course the radios have to be wired accordingly for the capacitors and diodes to be facing the right way. Or is that the left way? :>)

Yes the nucleus would be considered negative if electrons had been defined as positive and protons as negative.

The definitions of positive and negative are entirely arbitrary. They could just as easily been called cat and dog. Then we would all be talking about how cats go from the cat pole to the dog dish.

Your example of electroplating only makes sense because you have been told that it does. Picturing things going one way or another makes no difference as long as everyone pictures them the same way. How many electrons have you seen?

As you observed, positive vs negative ground in cars makes no diference as long as things are connected in a way that is consistent with the definitions used for the battery and the radio (cat to cat and dog to dog).

:Fred, if you see electrons as being positive, is the nucleus of a molecule negative? :>)
:In a battery or when you are electroplating, you can picture tiny particles leaving the negative pole and attaching to the positive. I think that is why the negative electron makes slightly more sense.
:
:There is also some thought that lightning travels from the earth to the clouds, but I think the result is the same, a mighty wallop and a hot spot somewhere on the earth.
:
:Can anyone explain why some car manufacturers built cars with positive to "ground" which was the chassis, while most used negative ground? It seemed to make no difference either way, but of course the radios have to be wired accordingly for the capacitors and diodes to be facing the right way. Or is that the left way? :>)
:

As far as tubes are concerned, regardless of how you want to picture electrons and ions, electrons flow from the cathode to the plate. That, for normal tube operation, is written in stone.

:Yes the nucleus would be considered negative if electrons had been defined as positive and protons as negative.
:
:The definitions of positive and negative are entirely arbitrary. They could just as easily been called cat and dog. Then we would all be talking about how cats go from the cat pole to the dog dish.
:
:Your example of electroplating only makes sense because you have been told that it does. Picturing things going one way or another makes no difference as long as everyone pictures them the same way. How many electrons have you seen?
:
:As you observed, positive vs negative ground in cars makes no diference as long as things are connected in a way that is consistent with the definitions used for the battery and the radio (cat to cat and dog to dog).
:
:
:
:
::Fred, if you see electrons as being positive, is the nucleus of a molecule negative? :>)
::In a battery or when you are electroplating, you can picture tiny particles leaving the negative pole and attaching to the positive. I think that is why the negative electron makes slightly more sense.
::
::There is also some thought that lightning travels from the earth to the clouds, but I think the result is the same, a mighty wallop and a hot spot somewhere on the earth.
::
::Can anyone explain why some car manufacturers built cars with positive to "ground" which was the chassis, while most used negative ground? It seemed to make no difference either way, but of course the radios have to be wired accordingly for the capacitors and diodes to be facing the right way. Or is that the left way? :>)
::
:
:

:As far as tubes are concerned, regardless of how you want to picture electrons and ions, electrons flow from the cathode to the plate. That, for normal tube operation, is written in stone.
:
::Yes the nucleus would be considered negative if electrons had been defined as positive and protons as negative.
::
::The definitions of positive and negative are entirely arbitrary. They could just as easily been called cat and dog. Then we would all be talking about how cats go from the cat pole to the dog dish.
::
::Your example of electroplating only makes sense because you have been told that it does. Picturing things going one way or another makes no difference as long as everyone pictures them the same way. How many electrons have you seen?
::
::As you observed, positive vs negative ground in cars makes no diference as long as things are connected in a way that is consistent with the definitions used for the battery and the radio (cat to cat and dog to dog).
::
::
::
::
:::Fred, if you see electrons as being positive, is the nucleus of a molecule negative? :>)
:::In a battery or when you are electroplating, you can picture tiny particles leaving the negative pole and attaching to the positive. I think that is why the negative electron makes slightly more sense.
:::
:::There is also some thought that lightning travels from the earth to the clouds, but I think the result is the same, a mighty wallop and a hot spot somewhere on the earth.
:::
:::Can anyone explain why some car manufacturers built cars with positive to "ground" which was the chassis, while most used negative ground? It seemed to make no difference either way, but of course the radios have to be wired accordingly for the capacitors and diodes to be facing the right way. Or is that the left way? :>)

All:
It really makes no difference how you connect the polarity of the DC to a car radio, providing there are no electrolytic caps in the A lead. Once the vibrator makes AC out of DC, the rectifier tube doesn't know which way the battery is connected. It puts B+ out on the cathode like it always has. I know, the electrons are flowing into the cathode to the plate. The rectifier tube compensates for not knowing by not caring one way or the other. I am reminded of George Orwell and "1984", where the people lived life one way, knowing in their hearts they were completely bas-ackward from reality.

Natch, the 12 Volt plate tubes care, and are not to be included in this discussion.
Lewis
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:
:

:Natch, the 12 Volt plate tubes care, and are not to be included in this discussion.
:Lewis

This reminded me of something that happened when I did electonics repair while goining to grad school back in the dark ages. I guy brought his car radio in and said that it was totally dead. It worked fine for a full day in the shop so I called and he picked it up. A couple of days later he brought it back with the same complaint. I hooked it up while he was there and it worked fine. I asked if anything else in the car had problems and he said that yes, the gauges weren't working but the lights and everything else were ok. I asked if he had some work done lately and he told me that the battery had been replaced. Yep, the car had a positive ground and the morons had reversed the battery. The car had a generator so it repolarized itself and charged the battery just fine, but the radio was a transistor set and it was unhappy as were the electronic guages. He never came back.

Interestingly I had a radio with a synchronous vibrator that I ran off of 6v AC from time to time. Worked just fine. I would think that synchronous vibrators would need the proper polarity.

::Natch, the 12 Volt plate tubes care, and are not to be included in this discussion.
::Lewis
:
:This reminded me of something that happened when I did electonics repair while goining to grad school back in the dark ages. I guy brought his car radio in and said that it was totally dead. It worked fine for a full day in the shop so I called and he picked it up. A couple of days later he brought it back with the same complaint. I hooked it up while he was there and it worked fine. I asked if anything else in the car had problems and he said that yes, the gauges weren't working but the lights and everything else were ok. I asked if he had some work done lately and he told me that the battery had been replaced. Yep, the car had a positive ground and the morons had reversed the battery. The car had a generator so it repolarized itself and charged the battery just fine, but the radio was a transistor set and it was unhappy as were the electronic guages. He never came back.
:

Indeed electrons go from the cathode to the plate, but convention says that the current goes from the plate to the cathode. This is only a problem for those who get hung up on what "really" happens and can't understand the idea of a conceptual description. In other words thay have no concept of a concept.

:As far as tubes are concerned, regardless of how you want to picture electrons and ions, electrons flow from the cathode to the plate. That, for normal tube operation, is written in stone.

:Indeed electrons go from the cathode to the plate, but convention says that the current goes from the plate to the cathode. This is only a problem for those who get hung up on what "really" happens and can't understand the idea of a conceptual description. In other words thay have no concept of a concept.
:
::As far as tubes are concerned, regardless of how you want to picture electrons and ions, electrons flow from the cathode to the plate. That, for normal tube operation, is written in stone.

Fred:
If we were checking, say a car radio, we would, perhaps, check the fuse, then go to the ignition switch, to a terminal block, and so on toward the battery without never thinking about which way the electrons were flowing. As I said, we live in a world like "1984" where we think of the current flowing one way and the electrons flowing another. We never (I hope) think about the electrons at all, just "is there Voltage here or not". N'est pas?
Lewis
P. S. Pardon my French (:>}
:
:

::Indeed electrons go from the cathode to the plate, but convention says that the current goes from the plate to the cathode. This is only a problem for those who get hung up on what "really" happens and can't understand the idea of a conceptual description. In other words thay have no concept of a concept.
::
:::As far as tubes are concerned, regardless of how you want to picture electrons and ions, electrons flow from the cathode to the plate. That, for normal tube operation, is written in stone.
:
:
:Fred:
:If we were checking, say a car radio, we would, perhaps, check the fuse, then go to the ignition switch, to a terminal block, and so on toward the battery without never thinking about which way the electrons were flowing. As I said, we live in a world like "1984" where we think of the current flowing one way and the electrons flowing another. We never (I hope) think about the electrons at all, just "is there Voltage here or not". N'est pas?
:Lewis
:P. S. Pardon my French (:>}
::Dear every body,
Happy New Year to all.
It will help conceptually to think of Vac. tubes as swithces for a moment.
The simplest example will be either a half wave or a full wave rectifire tube.
A positive current at the plate will throw the switch on by allowing the electrons to close the circuit(the positive portion of the AC sine wave). With the circuit closed it is then the positive pulsating DC which enters the main circuit.
For those real purists, one can then imagine that with the switch on, the current flows from the negative grounded chasis back to the cathode and then to the plate when the plate is positive.
I hope I did not make you more confused.

Al
::
:
:

:Fred:
:If we were checking, say a car radio, we would, perhaps, check the fuse, then go to the ignition switch, to a terminal block, and so on toward the battery without never thinking about which way the electrons were flowing. As I said, we live in a world like "1984" where we think of the current flowing one way and the electrons flowing another. We never (I hope) think about the electrons at all, just "is there Voltage here or not". N'est pas?
:Lewis
:P. S. Pardon my French (:>}

Of course. I just started all this because I remembered some of the humorous discussions I've heard over the years among guys who thought that that there was a "right" and "wrong" way to look at a problem requiring analysis. They could never understand that it made no difference as long as everyone used the same definitions for the quantities. So after reading that electrons went from the cathode to the plate they just could not deal with the idea of current being defined as going the reverse direction. ::
:
:

::Fred:
::If we were checking, say a car radio, we would, perhaps, check the fuse, then go to the ignition switch, to a terminal block, and so on toward the battery without never thinking about which way the electrons were flowing. As I said, we live in a world like "1984" where we think of the current flowing one way and the electrons flowing another. We never (I hope) think about the electrons at all, just "is there Voltage here or not". N'est pas?
::Lewis
::P. S. Pardon my French (:>}
:
:Of course. I just started all this because I remembered some of the humorous discussions I've heard over the years among guys who thought that that there was a "right" and "wrong" way to look at a problem requiring analysis. They could never understand that it made no difference as long as everyone used the same definitions for the quantities. So after reading that electrons went from the cathode to the plate they just could not deal with the idea of current being defined as going the reverse direction. ::
::
::Man i had no idea this was going to be a big deal but i can tell you all i have lurned a lot because of this,and i now have the answers i was looking for thank you terry
:
:

:::Fred:
:::If we were checking, say a car radio, we would, perhaps, check the fuse, then go to the ignition switch, to a terminal block, and so on toward the battery without never thinking about which way the electrons were flowing. As I said, we live in a world like "1984" where we think of the current flowing one way and the electrons flowing another. We never (I hope) think about the electrons at all, just "is there Voltage here or not". N'est pas?
:::Lewis
:::P. S. Pardon my French (:>}
::
::Of course. I just started all this because I remembered some of the humorous discussions I've heard over the years among guys who thought that that there was a "right" and "wrong" way to look at a problem requiring analysis. They could never understand that it made no difference as long as everyone used the same definitions for the quantities. So after reading that electrons went from the cathode to the plate they just could not deal with the idea of current being defined as going the reverse direction. ::
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:::Man i had no idea this was going to be a big deal but i can tell you all i have lurned a lot because of this,and i now have the answers i was looking for thank you terry

Terry:
As I said earlier, Ben Franklin got it wrong about wrong over two hundred years ago, and it all worked out just fine for explaining things until tubes were invented. Just think it works oone way and know that it works the other, just like government.
Lewis
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No, he did not "get it wrong". There is no right or wrong to a defined convention. You can arrive at all of your own defintions and they will work just fine for you. You will only have problems when using someone else's defintions if they conflict with yours.
This kind of thing is the reason for standards committies. They take everyone's defintions and try to come up up a set that can be used by all.

The invention of tubes changed nothing. You only think you know which way things are going because others have told you. You can picture what is going on in a tube as little negatively charged things going from a hot thing to a cold thing or little positive things gong from a cold thing to a warm thing. None of this matters unless you get so distracted by which definiton is correct that you can't perform analysis according to the current definition in use because you are convinced that it is wrong.

:As I said earlier, Ben Franklin got it wrong about wrong over two hundred years ago, and it all worked out just fine for explaining things until tubes were invented. Just think it works oone way and know that it works the other, just like government.
:Lewis
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