Heathkit IP-12 Battery Eliminator

8/24/2012 5:47:28 PMJoe Minor

Need Manual for Heathkit IP-12, 6/12 volt power supply (Battery Eliminator) Specifically the D1-D4 replacement diodes.
Joe Minor K4JOE

8/24/2012 7:51:14 PMJohn Kogel

A Google search turned this thread up, might help.

http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=100500

Schematic here:
http://www.nostalgickitscentral.com/heath/products/test.html

:Need Manual for Heathkit IP-12, 6/12 volt power supply (Battery Eliminator) Specifically the D1-D4 replacement diodes.
:Joe Minor K4JOE
:

8/25/2012 9:22:53 AMBob Masse

:A Google search turned this thread up, might help.
:
:http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=100500
:
:Schematic here:
:http://www.nostalgickitscentral.com/heath/products/test.html
:
:
:Here's a little more info:
http://schnittker.homeunix.net/Hobbies/Heathkit/ip12/
Bob Masse
:
:
:
::Need Manual for Heathkit IP-12, 6/12 volt power supply (Battery Eliminator) Specifically the D1-D4 replacement diodes.
::Joe Minor K4JOE
::
:
:

8/25/2012 10:36:55 AMK4JOE-Joe

I have the schematic as listed in above 2 addresses: I need the specifications on the diodes, I would like to use the same heat sinks, therefore the replacement diode would be nice. Any more help. Thanks for replying to this request
:::Joe Minor K4JOE
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8/25/2012 11:13:48 AMRich, W3HWJ

:I have the schematic as listed in above 2 addresses: I need the specifications on the diodes, I would like to use the same heat sinks, therefore the replacement diode would be nice. Any more help. Thanks for replying to this request
::::Joe Minor K4JOE
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You will need some pretty hefty diodes. I would suggest at least 20 Amps/200V probably in a stud-mount package or TO-220 plastic. You can't use a rectifier bridge package, as this circuit switches between a full-wave center-tap and a doubler to get the two output voltage choices. Diodes are cheap, so don't under-rate. Make sure you have good heatsinking.
Rich

8/25/2012 11:19:29 AMRich, W3HWJ

::I have the schematic as listed in above 2 addresses: I need the specifications on the diodes, I would like to use the same heat sinks, therefore the replacement diode would be nice. Any more help. Thanks for replying to this request
:::::Joe Minor K4JOE
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:::
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:
:
:You will need some pretty hefty diodes. I would suggest at least 20 Amps/200V probably in a stud-mount package or TO-220 plastic. You can't use a rectifier bridge package, as this circuit switches between a full-wave center-tap and a doubler to get the two output voltage choices. Diodes are cheap, so don't under-rate. Make sure you have good heatsinking.
:Rich
:

You might try something like this:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Semiconductors/VS-40HFR20/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtEwUVCuofpuAhUsscW3yWUSIYg9jNZ5b8%3d

Rich

8/25/2012 1:00:13 PMEdd

Sir Joe . . . . .

There is the Heath schematic placed below and my additionally added (Blue) draw ups of its created switching actions.

Wonder if that Heathkit draftsman wuz havin’ a bad spellin’ day ?

Hate to have to see you put out $5’s a pop for each of those diodes Sir Rich referenced , I do believe that my well stocked “Junque Boxe” is still having some Mil Spec 1N1202 ( 12A-200 PIV) top hat studs and / or big brother 1N1124 ( 33A-200 PIV) that I could contribute to the cause.

Want me to check over the weekend ?

73's de Edd

I chose the path less traveled by . . . . . but only because I was lost.

8/25/2012 3:25:10 PMmein . . . ERRATA . . .

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:Sir Joe . . . . .
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:There is the Heath schematic placed below and my additionally added (Blue) draw ups of its created switching actions.
:
:
:Wonder if that Heathkit draftsman wuz havin’ a bad spellin’ day ?
:
:
:Hate to have to see you put out $5’s a pop for each of those diodes Sir Rich referenced , I do believe that my well stocked “Junque Boxe” is still having some Mil Spec 1N1202 ( 12A-200 PIV) top hat studs and / or big brother 1N1124 ( 33A-200 PIV) that I could contribute to the cause.
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:Want me to check over the weekend ?
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Errata:

I see that in my juggling the two blue panels into position, I had then transposed the two top functions labels such that they are being reversed.

The 12V circuit is being on top, whle the 6V circuit is on botttom.

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:73's de Edd
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:I chose the path less traveled by . . . . . but only because I was lost.
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::I have the schematic as listed in above 2 addresses: I need the specifications on the diodes, I would like to use the same heat sinks, therefore the replacement diode would be nice. Any more help. Thanks for replying to this request
:::::Joe Minor K4JOE
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8/26/2012 11:59:38 AMK4JOE-Joe

Thanks for all the replays:

:since the two diodes are tapped in the middle, that is the " cathode of 1st diode---- tap----anode of 2nd diode. I am thinking one of the diodes will have to be reversed where as the metal screw in part is the cathode of the first diode and the screw in part of the second diode would have to be the anode. Any clarification would help.

Ed: you can check over the week end for the two diodes that have been mentioned, but I would like some clarification as to the 2nd reversed diode.
Thanks for all the input.
Joe- K4JOE
:
:Sir Joe . . . . .
:
:
:There is the Heath schematic placed below and my additionally added (Blue) draw ups of its created switching actions.
:
:
:Wonder if that Heathkit draftsman wuz havin’ a bad spellin’ day ?
:
:
:Hate to have to see you put out $5’s a pop for each of those diodes Sir Rich referenced , I do believe that my well stocked “Junque Boxe” is still having some Mil Spec 1N1202 ( 12A-200 PIV) top hat studs and / or big brother 1N1124 ( 33A-200 PIV) that I could contribute to the cause.
:
:
:Want me to check over the weekend ?
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:73's de Edd
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:
:I chose the path less traveled by . . . . . but only because I was lost.
:
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::I have the schematic as listed in above 2 addresses: I need the specifications on the diodes, I would like to use the same heat sinks, therefore the replacement diode would be nice. Any more help. Thanks for replying to this request
:::::Joe Minor K4JOE
:::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
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:

8/27/2012 3:44:05 PMEdd(102177:102158)

Sir Joe . . . . .

Ed: you can check over the week end for the two diodes that have been mentioned

You will be needing 4 separate and individual diodes

I'm blind ---I'm blind ! and can't see the electromechanics of your ORIGINAL dry rectifier assembly.

So I don't know if any aluminum plate (1 thru 4) heat sinks are being involved.

If using those / that plate with the diodes being mounted in the old rectifier holes, you would be dependent on using mica insulating washers and short insulative sleeves on the 10-32 studs to keep the diodes cases (cathodes)from shorting out to the heat sinks . . . . . also 4 terminal lugs for the 4 diode studs.

but I would like some clarification as to the 2nd reversed diode

All of the diode interswitching / transposing /juxtapositions of the 4 diode sections were being done by the switch PLUS the mechnical construction of the original rectifier stack was precluding any shorting to the heatsink(s).

In a different situation, where one is using full wave bridge rectification for a power supply and would be using
two sets of two diodes one could typically find one 1N1202 diode case connected to the heat sink, and there being the use of a companion 1N1202R and thats heavy on the Ruhhhh, which would permit you to also bolt it to the heat sink without using insulators.

This is BECAUSE the 1N1202 R has the CASE being ANODE and its TOP TERMINAL being CATHODE . . . . a mechanical reversal !
The construction method is then replicated for the other heat sinks parts mountings.

In studying the schematic, and the way that the diodes are being swapped around, you need to float/ insulate all 4 diode units from any common heat sinks metal.

I didn't find the POWER diodes in my first search, all small signal units, so that means that I WILL find them hiding in my other diode cache, tonite.

73's de Edd

Practical people would be more practical if they would take a little more time for dreaming..

:Thanks for all the replays:
:
::since the two diodes are tapped in the middle, that is the " cathode of 1st diode---- tap----anode of 2nd diode. I am thinking one of the diodes will have to be reversed where as the metal screw in part is the cathode of the first diode and the screw in part of the second diode would have to be the anode. Any clarification would help.
:
:Ed: you can check over the week end for the two diodes that have been mentioned, but I would like some clarification as to the 2nd reversed diode.
:Thanks for all the input.
:Joe- K4JOE
::
::Sir Joe . . . . .
::
::
::There is the Heath schematic placed below and my additionally added (Blue) draw ups of its created switching actions.
::
::
::Wonder if that Heathkit draftsman wuz havin’ a bad spellin’ day ?
::
::
::Hate to have to see you put out $5’s a pop for each of those diodes Sir Rich referenced , I do believe that my well stocked “Junque Boxe” is still having some Mil Spec 1N1202 ( 12A-200 PIV) top hat studs and / or big brother 1N1124 ( 33A-200 PIV) that I could contribute to the cause.
::
::
::Want me to check over the weekend ?
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::I chose the path less traveled by . . . . . but only because I was lost.
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
:::I have the schematic as listed in above 2 addresses: I need the specifications on the diodes, I would like to use the same heat sinks, therefore the replacement diode would be nice. Any more help. Thanks for replying to this request
::::::Joe Minor K4JOE
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
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::
:
:

8/27/2012 5:39:32 PMK4JOE-Joe(102180:102177)

: Thanks Ed:
Diodes D1 and D2 are encapsulated in one heat sink, with the heat sink being the "tap" between them. Same as with D 3 and D4. I do not think I will be able to replace with a factory new diode. So I will have to use one diode with the cathode as the "screw" in portion and a "R" or reversed diode for the second.
Joe
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:73's de Edd
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:Practical people would be more practical if they would take a little more time for dreaming..
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::Thanks for all the replays:
::
:::since the two diodes are tapped in the middle, that is the " cathode of 1st diode---- tap----anode of 2nd diode. I am thinking one of the diodes will have to be reversed where as the metal screw in part is the cathode of the first diode and the screw in part of the second diode would have to be the anode. Any clarification would help.
::
::Ed: you can check over the week end for the two diodes that have been mentioned, but I would like some clarification as to the 2nd reversed diode.
::Thanks for all the input.
::Joe- K4JOE
:::
:::Sir Joe . . . . .
:::
:::
:::There is the Heath schematic placed below and my additionally added (Blue) draw ups of its created switching actions.
:::
:::
:::Wonder if that Heathkit draftsman wuz havin’ a bad spellin’ day ?
:::
:::
:::Hate to have to see you put out $5’s a pop for each of those diodes Sir Rich referenced , I do believe that my well stocked “Junque Boxe” is still having some Mil Spec 1N1202 ( 12A-200 PIV) top hat studs and / or big brother 1N1124 ( 33A-200 PIV) that I could contribute to the cause.
:::
:::
:::Want me to check over the weekend ?
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::73's de Edd
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::I chose the path less traveled by . . . . . but only because I was lost.
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
::::I have the schematic as listed in above 2 addresses: I need the specifications on the diodes, I would like to use the same heat sinks, therefore the replacement diode would be nice. Any more help. Thanks for replying to this request
:::::::Joe Minor K4JOE
:::::::
::::::
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
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:

8/29/2012 5:23:49 PMEdd(102203:102180)

Sir Joe . . . . .

That final detail you gave , filled me in on the mystery of the quantity of separate heat sinks being used by the unit . . .2 . . .and the specific two diode interconnects of D1-D2 and D3-D4 .

I found my great power diode cache now, and see that I have two boxes of 1N1202’s and surprise . . . included was a hand full of the “R” electro -mechanical version also needed.

So I have a set of four of those, such that you can bolt two sets to the respective heat sink sets.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/MOTOROLA-1N1202-Vintage-POWER-STUD-RARE-NOS-/00/s/MTA4M1gxNjAw/$(KGrHqR,!h4E8J8)QdQFBPRUKKQYuQ~~60_35.JPG>

I also have two other options, in the respect of also finding a set of
Genteel Instruments’ Full wave bridges number KPBC-2504, look it up and you will find it being an ~ 1 1/4in square aluminum “bathtub” with four terminals at the top and a hole in the middle for bolt mounting to the heat sink.
It spec’s out at 400V at 25 amps.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4mFoOM03Bcs/SyylsQglkrI/AAAAAAAAADQ/6pyFZ_asq-g/s320/Bridge%2BRectifier%2BKBPC2504.jpg>

To use this device you would mount one unit to center on each heat sink and only use the AC in term and the + and - output , with the units OTHER AC term being left unconnected.

Same procedure for the other unit on its heatsink.

On these KPBC units, all of the semi devices float from being connected to the aluminum case.

A final, third option, is my finding a fistful of 1N248’s which is a unit as large as a quarter.

It specs at 50V at 40 amps.
http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mtfluiXkjKqBV3fkzxwWWLA.jpg>
Not to worry on that spec of 50V . . . as with my being a “shaker and baker” and semiconductor maker in my early career.

You plan for a semi barrier build up in your growing of the die to be exceeding the breakdown voltage spec.

And then you test and weed out the failures on the initial bare wafer probe testing and then after slicing and dicing the wafer and mounting to cases. A final testing sorts out the voltage breakdown spectras of the units.

They then get marked accordingly.

At times, there will be a call for 50V units, and none built up so a higher voltage unit is subbed and marked up as being the 50V unit.

In my pulling out of the ole’ Tek 576 curve tracer, in the testing of 63 units, I found a set of 4 that have a clean knee that doesn’t fail until ~350 V . . . . and 1 other even makes it up to 600V PIV breakdown.

Now if you want to use a set of those mentioned four above, your procedure would then require a mica washer floating of the cathode case of ONE of the units on EACH of the heat sinks.

Come back with your parts preference . . . .

73's de Edd

If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!

:
:: Thanks Ed:
:Diodes D1 and D2 are encapsulated in one heat sink, with the heat sink being the "tap" between them. Same as with D 3 and D4. I do not think I will be able to replace with a factory new diode. So I will have to use one diode with the cathode as the "screw" in portion and a "R" or reversed diode for the second.
:
:Joe
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::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::73's de Edd
::
::
::
::
::
::Practical people would be more practical if they would take a little more time for dreaming..
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
::
:::Thanks for all the replays:
:::
::::since the two diodes are tapped in the middle, that is the " cathode of 1st diode---- tap----anode of 2nd diode. I am thinking one of the diodes will have to be reversed where as the metal screw in part is the cathode of the first diode and the screw in part of the second diode would have to be the anode. Any clarification would help.
:::
:::Ed: you can check over the week end for the two diodes that have been mentioned, but I would like some clarification as to the 2nd reversed diode.
:::Thanks for all the input.
:::Joe- K4JOE
::::
::::Sir Joe . . . . .
::::
::::
::::There is the Heath schematic placed below and my additionally added (Blue) draw ups of its created switching actions.
::::
::::
::::Wonder if that Heathkit draftsman wuz havin’ a bad spellin’ day ?
::::
::::
::::Hate to have to see you put out $5’s a pop for each of those diodes Sir Rich referenced , I do believe that my well stocked “Junque Boxe” is still having some Mil Spec 1N1202 ( 12A-200 PIV) top hat studs and / or big brother 1N1124 ( 33A-200 PIV) that I could contribute to the cause.
::::
::::
::::Want me to check over the weekend ?
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::73's de Edd
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::I chose the path less traveled by . . . . . but only because I was lost.
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
::::
:::::I have the schematic as listed in above 2 addresses: I need the specifications on the diodes, I would like to use the same heat sinks, therefore the replacement diode would be nice. Any more help. Thanks for replying to this request
::::::::Joe Minor K4JOE
::::::::
:::::::
:::::::
::::::
::::::
:::::
:::::
::::
::::
:::
:::
::
::
:
:

8/29/2012 5:30:54 PMAdded in images(102204:102203)

Sir Joe . . . . .

That final detail you gave , filled me in on the mystery of the quantity of separate heat sinks being used by the unit . . .2 . . .and the specific two diode interconnects of D1-D2 and D3-D4 .

I found my great power diode cache now, and see that I have two boxes of 1N1202’s and surprise . . . included was a hand full of the “R” electro -mechanical version also needed.

So I have a set of four of those, such that you can bolt two sets to the respective heat sink sets.

I also have two other options, in the respect of also finding a set of
Genteel Instruments’ Full wave bridges number KPBC-2504, look it up and you will find it being an ~ 1 1/4in square aluminum “bathtub” with four terminals at the top and a hole in the middle for bolt mounting to the heat sink.
It spec’s out at 400V at 25 amps.

To use this device you would mount one unit to center on each heat sink and only use the AC in term and the + and - output , with the units OTHER AC term being left unconnected.

Same procedure for the other unit on its heatsink.

On these KPBC units, all of the semi devices float from being connected to the aluminum case.

A final, third option, is my finding a fistful of 1N248’s which is a unit as large as a quarter.

It specs at 50V at 40 amps.

Not to worry on that spec of 50V . . . as with my being a “shaker and baker” and semiconductor maker in my early career.

You plan for a semi barrier build up in your growing of the die to be exceeding the breakdown voltage spec.

And then you test and weed out the failures on the initial bare wafer probe testing and then after slicing and dicing the wafer and mounting to cases. A final testing sorts out the voltage breakdown spectras of the units.

They then get marked accordingly.

At times, there will be a call for 50V units, and none built up so a higher voltage unit is subbed and marked up as being the 50V unit.

In my pulling out of the ole’ Tek 576 curve tracer, in the testing of 63 units, I found a set of 4 that have a clean knee that doesn’t fail until ~350 V . . . . and 1 other even makes it up to 600V PIV breakdown.

Now if you want to use a set of those mentioned four above, your procedure would then require a mica washer floating of the cathode case of ONE of the units on EACH of the heat sinks.

Come back with your parts preference . . . .

73's de Edd

If at first you DO succeed, try not to look astonished!

::
::: Thanks Ed:
::Diodes D1 and D2 are encapsulated in one heat sink, with the heat sink being the "tap" between them. Same as with D 3 and D4. I do not think I will be able to replace with a factory new diode. So I will have to use one diode with the cathode as the "screw" in portion and a "R" or reversed diode for the second.
::
::Joe
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:::
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:::
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:::
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:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::73's de Edd
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::Practical people would be more practical if they would take a little more time for dreaming..
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
:::
::::Thanks for all the replays:
::::
:::::since the two diodes are tapped in the middle, that is the " cathode of 1st diode---- tap----anode of 2nd diode. I am thinking one of the diodes will have to be reversed where as the metal screw in part is the cathode of the first diode and the screw in part of the second diode would have to be the anode. Any clarification would help.
::::
::::Ed: you can check over the week end for the two diodes that have been mentioned, but I would like some clarification as to the 2nd reversed diode.
::::Thanks for all the input.
::::Joe- K4JOE
:::::
:::::Sir Joe . . . . .
:::::
:::::
:::::There is the Heath schematic placed below and my additionally added (Blue) draw ups of its created switching actions.
:::::
:::::
:::::Wonder if that Heathkit draftsman wuz havin’ a bad spellin’ day ?
:::::
:::::
:::::Hate to have to see you put out $5’s a pop for each of those diodes Sir Rich referenced , I do believe that my well stocked “Junque Boxe” is still having some Mil Spec 1N1202 ( 12A-200 PIV) top hat studs and / or big brother 1N1124 ( 33A-200 PIV) that I could contribute to the cause.
:::::
:::::
:::::Want me to check over the weekend ?
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::73's de Edd
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::I chose the path less traveled by . . . . . but only because I was lost.
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
:::::
::::::I have the schematic as listed in above 2 addresses: I need the specifications on the diodes, I would like to use the same heat sinks, therefore the replacement diode would be nice. Any more help. Thanks for replying to this request
:::::::::Joe Minor K4JOE
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8/30/2012 11:46:47 AMK4JOE-Joe(102217:102204)

Ed: Thanks for all the help. I have replied to you on E-mail.. Thanks again. Everyone on this site has been very helpful
Joe K4JOE